Bow Licence in NSW???

[dartonian]

I was surprised to see over 50 have read and no comments... So I've re-edited the topic name.

For those who dont want to click the link, it relates to an interview with Daryl Venables, ABA rep on the Game Council NSW.
i have a lot of respect for Daryl but was very surprised to read he is almost endorsing licensing or registration of bows as a means of dealing with unlawful use of bows on native animals.
Please have a read and see what you think. I for one will be following this with great interest!

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/conten ... 221082.htm


Cheers,
Paul

Post edited... Just read a topic on how to hot-link so I assume its ok

[bigbob]

I cant open the link.

[dartonian]

Try it now
Cheers,
Paul

[Stickbow Hunter]

I've disagreed with Daryl Venables on here in the past and I most certainly couldn't disagree with him more over his comments in that link - what stupid comments to put up in public!!!

Jeff

[Nutgrass]

I couldn't disagree with that more We are fighting tooth & nail to keep what we have. For someone in a position like that to come forward & make a suggestion like that needs a further looking into.
Who's side is he on ? Might as pack them up & ship all our bows off to the garbage compactor with people like that representing us

A quote from that site (from one of our members I think)

Education is the answer, not legislation.

For me this is definately where we need to start.

Of coarse this is a media reported article & there is always the chance this bloke has been quoted out of context or even had his words quoted to suit their story.

[piggy]

This topic rears it head from time to time and as long as shops inc online retailers sell bows to the uneducated they will be used by the uneducated and put archery in a bad light.
Comments like Daryl's will only give those that wish bows be banned more fuel to the fire.
Unless ALL the archery organisations get together with shops (Archery Alliance) and do some type of an awareness campaign and educate new and current archers this will not change and only end our sport.
As I keep saying WE ARCHERS will be the demise of our sport!!

[dmm]

I don't want to be forced to get a license to own a bow, and practice archery as I already do, but I have been through the process before, and it wasn't so bad.

Five or Six years back I owned a yacht. I learned to sail years ago, on other peoples boats, but if you've known a sailor, you'll know we all aspire to own 'our' boat. Anyhow, Victorian government brought in boating licenses, I think mainly because of the hoons on jet skis. I was annoyed that I had to spend $50, and sit a test at Vicroads, much like the written component of the driving test.

The government printed up a learns book, and I studied it to make sure I'd pass. Now I had been sailing for years, and thought I knew everything I needed, but after studying the book I was a lot more certain of who gave way to who, and picked up a few new things, like the flag a boat flies when divers are in the water. Overall, I think licensing probably improved the education and safe practice of boating for most, and gave the water police everything they needed to round up the unlicensed hoons on boats with handle bars. I did think it was pretty lame that people hiring boats were exempt, as you'd think they would be most in need, but I guess the charter boat companies expressed a reasonable view that if you needed a license to hire a boat, they'd all go out of business.

I'm not promoting the idea of licensing bows, but it would suit me a lot better to license them, and have the politions be able to claim they've acted, than have them banned.

I think in Victoria, you need a permit or license of some sort to own a crossbow, but you can still have one if you want it. I suspect you may need to demonstrate you have somewhere to shoot it, like perhaps an appropriate club.

I doubt, bows will be banned, unless perhaps one is used in a serious crime, like muder or armed robbery.
I have heard of a crossbow being used in an armed robery, but never a bow. Imagine trying to demand money at full draw, the Crim' would be saying, "Faster, Faster, I can't hold this much longer."

[looseplucker]

I think if an ABA rep is saying those things then perhaps the ABA needs to explain its official position or policy on licensing. Then members or prospective members can be informed. If it is "policy on the run" well something clarifying ought to be put out.

[jindydiver]

I'm not promoting the idea of licensing bows, but it would suit me a lot better to license them, and have the politions be able to claim they've acted, than have them banned.

The problem with this approach though is that we will not see licensing put a stop to idiots, and the people who would shut us down completely will be looking very hard for examples. They will find them too, absolutely certain of that, and then they will cry that "although the license system has had some effect it just isn't going far enough, and so bows must now be further regulated", and we will see more restrictions put on us.


Anyway
To inject some balance into the discussion.
Instead of going off half cocked I got in contact with Daryl to see what his story was.
This is part of his reply to me......

So to the issue at hand, the ABC report was cut in an interesting way
but I did say we as a community need to address how to manage the issue
of uncontrolled access to archery equipment. When you have the gear
available to anyone with no controls and some dealers encouraging people
to shoot 'feral kangaroos' then we are in a bad way. I did say licensing
and regulation but I never suggested registration of bows. There other
thing is I do not think I said this just applied to bow users, I was
implying this should be placed on the dealers of gear, obviously this
did not come through.

However that is a mute point if people have already thought I said it.

I had about 2 minutes notice of the interview and was still reading the
media when the phone call came through. It was thinking on my feet when
I did not have all the facts and a no response would have made things
worse.

I hate the idea of licensing and regulations but we are now facing the
problem of we need to do something as the changes are coming and I would
rather bow users were part of that decision than a bunch of public
servants based in a capital city who's entire knowledge of archery is
based on a robin hood movie or deliverance.

If you listen to the interview you will plainly hear him talking about the ABA, 3DAAA and AA looking at regulation and training (licensing, in the vein of DMM's post) of BOW DEALERS.

DV.
There are moves afoot in the archery retailers industry to set up industry standards and there's also moves afoot through the three major bodies in Australia which is the ABA, 3DAAA and AA. They’ve formed what is now called the Archery Alliance of Australia. Their looking at trying to implement some sort of training or regulation of selling equipment.

Reporter.
What then is the roll of regulation in managing or ensuring these kinds of incidents don't occur?

DV.
They’re not by any stretch of the imagination common, but they are becoming more common. I think bowhunting as a whole, and the access to archery equipment is going to come under some sort of regulation. It's obvious that certain elements of the community, and I feel that they are probably a very small part of the community, are accessing equipment and using it in an illegal manner. So what we need to do is potentially look at a licencing form, or dare I even say it, a registration technique, to try and eliminate these people, because they are just wrecking it for everyone else.

He obviously did not get his point across clearly.

[dartonian]

Thanks Mick,
I'm glad that there has been some clarification from Daryl on this. Like I said, I have had a lot of dealings with Daryl and have a lot of respect for him and the work he puts in with his roles with ABA and Game Council... I would be interested to know what path they would be going down with licensing of dealers though. Because it's not a stretch to go from licensing of dealers to licensing of users!

I know that dealing with the press can be difficult and stressful, especially when we all know that we are not dealing with unbiased reporters. But when asked "Can anyone buy a bow?" surely the answer should be "yes... bows are items of sporting equipment" rather than opening the door to the belief that even those involved in the sport believe that they warrant some form of regulation.

Hopefully, those that are buying bows and shooting roos, leaving them with target / field arrows hanging out of them for all to see are not going to ruin it all for the rest of us. I hope that those instances are cases of young kids whose parents buy them a cheap bow and then don't supervise them (much the same as when I was growing up and got my first air-rifle... an option not open to today's youngsters)... Which is why I cant really get angry at the images... just saddened at the unnecessary pain inflicted on the roos and what it is doing to the sport we love.

Cheers all... And thanks again Jindy for your input
Paul

[Steven J]

A quote from that site (from one of our members I think)

Education is the answer, not legislation.

Yep, that was me. All we end up with is more stupid laws and more stupid people breaking them.

Well done Mick on actually tracking this down further and speaking with DV.

Steve

[dmm]

I would be interested to know what path they would be going down with licensing of dealers though. Because it's not a stretch to go from licensing of dealers to licensing of users!

I'm feeling a little thick, because I really can't understand how licensing dealers does anything other than reduce competition and increase prices?

Will I still be able to place orders with 3Rivers or Lancaster? What about Borders in Scotland?
What about the second hand market, or even those with the skills to make their own bow?

A lot of martial arts equipment is controlled, unless you are a legitimate practioner.
If they haven't already thought of it, I imagine the ABA would be please to see a situation where all archers were required to join (and pay dues) to one of the 3 major archery clubs, to show 'active' participation in the 'sport'.

[Nutgrass]

I was hoping I was right when I suggested he was mis-quoted

The regulation of the selling archery equipment is an interesting one. If the dealers have been educated to a standard in which ensures the goods are sold with the correct fitment & purpose. It could only be a good thing.
Once again if I was a dealer I don't think I would be so keen on it. But I certainly see it as a way to start a very broad spectrum of education to new comers buying their first bow, as also old hands of the sport upgrading.
I guess that leads itself to another mine field of over seas purchases & the likes.

Education though clubs is not reaching the people it needs to. As much as I am not a fan of clubs, but it is a bit like preaching to the converted. Education at the point of sale seams to make sence. Running to hide now

[jindydiver]

I would be interested to know what path they would be going down with licensing of dealers though. Because it's not a stretch to go from licensing of dealers to licensing of users!

I'm feeling a little thick, because I really can't understand how licensing dealers does anything other than reduce competition and increase prices?

.

when we think licencing we naturally think of gov' doing it through legislation, but there are other ways to do it. Self regulation is the only way we can save what we have. Some of us have been thinking through the issue for some time and here is something that I wrote this week that might give you an idea of one way it might work. Feel free to expand upon it, constructive discussion is what we need right now...

One way it could work, maybe.
The national bodies that are supposed to be representing archery and bowhunting approach the manufacturers and international distributors of archery equipment and explain our dilemma. "Kids (and ******s) are getting the bows and using them illegally, and as a result the gov' could look at restricting trade in bows and accessories". The national bodies could suggest that the manufacturers and distributors put rules in place surrounding the selling of bows into the Australian market that could cut down on misuse of bows. They could start with the mandatory supply of educational materials with each bow or set of arrows that must be handed on with the bow when they are sold to new purchasers. This would disseminate the info to people who are not part of clubs or groups like ours, and possibly reduce the number of incidents we are seeing. All retailers could be made to be part of the international body ATA, and perhaps retailers who are found to be careless in the advice they give to kids about their responsibilities with their bows could be removed from the supply chain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery_Trade_Association

None of this should cost much, say the wholesalers absorb the cost of membership (who knows how much it is, I figure hundreds not thousands), and they regulate who gets what from the manufacturers. We already see this sort of thing in other parts of the retail trade. If you want a Leopold scope you can't buy it from a dealer in the US and have it shipped over, instead you get a note saying that you have to buy it through the local supply chain. This is Leopold protecting the local importer, and if they get wind of a dealer in the US selling to people here they just stop supplying that retailer.

Anyway, we need a novel approach to this problem, the way we do things now is not helping us at all.
How many bowhunters do you believe there are in Australia? and how many of them are in clubs and have contact with people that will help them develop a sense of ethics and lawfulness that we need them to show when using their gear? To give you an idea of the problem we face getting education on the roll, in NSW there are over 125,000 people registered with the firearms registry as having "hunting" as a genuine reason for owning a firearm. The number of people who are part of clubs in NSW is only 20% of that and you can see that leaves a hell of a lot of people out there who potentially need some guidance to help them make good choices. The same with bows. The number of people hunting with bows is sure to be many times the number of people who are members of clubs and they are the people we need to reach.
If internal regulation of bow sales cuts the number of articles we see in the paper of bows being miss-used by even 20% it will be a good thing, and I believe that making the local sports store think a bit about who they are selling those cheap units to in the first place could easily cut the number of dickheads with bows by a measurable number.

[dmm]

Sorry, I still don't get it.

I place an order with Abbey Archery for half a dozen arrow shafts and some broadheads, and they put some educational material in the package with it? Something that says please obey local regulations when using this product?
Then we make it so I can't do the same thing from 3Rivers in the US, because they are already one of the biggest dealers in the US, and won't want to change they're procedures just for Australia.

And that stops a couple of young guys from having a few beers, taking the spot light out and shooting target arrows at a a Roo with their Red Zone special?

[Stickbow Hunter]

When one reads what is quoted in the article and what Mick has quoted he said I see it as word for word identical.

Tell me; what in the world is the point of regulation of dealers WITHOUT the regulation of the buyers? IMO the regulation of both will come hand in hand and that is the problem.

Educate people; issue media releases stating that real Bowhunting and Archery organizations and their members are against such irresponsible acts. While there are bows and guns people will use them for doing wrong the same as they do with a kitchen knife; no amount of regulation will stop people breaking the law.

DV:

There are moves afoot in the archery retailers industry to set up industry standards and there's also moves afoot through the three major bodies in Australia which is the ABA, 3DAAA and AA. They’ve formed what is now called the Archery Alliance of Australia. Their looking at trying to implement some sort of training or regulation of selling equipment.

That is just more of the same; regulation, regulation, regulation.

Daryl Venables has shown clearly in the past that he approves of regulation and what I call blackmail when thinking of the Game Council where you HAVE to be a member of one of their approved organizations if you want an R licence rather that the opportunity should be open to all Bowhunters.

I just wish people would stop promoting regulation as a way to stop people breaking the law; it never has worked and never will!!!

Jeff

[wishsong]

I don't think you can ever govern or regulate against stupidity and previous experiments in "regulation" would appear to have been effective only in furthering the cause of red tape .
Perhaps , in broader terms , a full public condemnation against such acts , including the request for the application of the full extent of any and all legal penalties coming from the "hunting " community would be more effective .

Typing in "bowhunting " into youtube gives a very different idea as to what our sport is about compared to what what most ethical hunting archers would consider as representative of our way of life. Further public condemnations of such rubbish will go a lot further to bettering our image , I believe , than the appeasement offerings which have never been effective previously .
Its a very difficult issue with many considerations . We shall soon be at a loggerhead with many people whom previously would have considered us as outdoorsman not bloodthirsty slayers of wildlife because of the occurrence of such heinous acts of stupidity .
I remain undecided as to what the further action we need as a sporting body to take against such actions , let alone how such is viewed in terms of media coverage , and by default , the media/public perception of us as a result of such idiocy. My gut feeling is that tokenistic appeasement via regulation is not the way forward .

[Stickbow Hunter]

If you want a Leopold scope you can't buy it from a dealer in the US and have it shipped over, instead you get a note saying that you have to buy it through the local supply chain. This is Leopold protecting the local importer, and if they get wind of a dealer in the US selling to people here they just stop supplying that retailer.

Your sounding a bit like Gerry Harvey from Harvey Norman and you know what the public thought of his comments regarding buying from overseas and what the goverment thankfully decided to do on that issue.

I don't fully agree with the rest of what you have to say either as I learnt right from wrong from my parents and I taught my kids the same and I certainly didn't need any club having to tell me that. Sadly people could do better then learn from some of the garbage that is put up in public in Bowhunting/hunting mags and web sites that is for sure and let's not forget that like any activity you have your law breakers within as well.

Hunters need to take a good look at themselves and how they conduct themselves and start portraying a better image to the public; this IMO is what is needed not more regulation. If they did that it would do more good then anything else!

Jeff

PS wishsong posted while I was typing. Great post, well said mate and I very much agree with you.

[GrahameA]

Morning All.

If they haven't already thought of it, I imagine the ABA would be please to see a situation where all archers were required to join (and pay dues) to one of the 3 major archery clubs, to show 'active' participation in the 'sport'.

Why? And what gives AA, ABA and 3DAAA some right to be the "Gods of Archery" - or did you mean to say Clubs and we are now looking for which are the 3 major Clubs.

There are very responsible people who do not belong to any Association. There are people who belong to other Associations.

Then again some kid makes a bow from a tree branch and the next thing you know he is in court for not being licensed as well as manufacturing a regulated device. It shouldn't happen but there will be someone who will do it.

[wishsong]

I am also very uncomfortable with anyone telling me where I can and can't purchase archery equipment .

Jindy said "the firearms registry as having "hunting" as a genuine reason for owning a firearm. The number of people who are part of clubs in NSW is only 20% of that and you can see that leaves a hell of a lot of people out there who potentially need some guidance to help them make good choices. The same with bows...."

This is where, I believe, things get very very murky ... I can see 'some' possible benefit from what is said as quoted but it is far outweighed by the negatives .
1. Define archery equipment
2. Define a bow ... is it the parts , is it the whole
3. would this include field points, quivers , broadheads etc
4. Who regulates, let alone decide the definitions
5. Who enforces such

Just because some one does not belong to a club or association does not mean they need any one to teach/guide them about anything ...


I also struggle with the idea of forcing anyone to join clubs etc . Firstly, as it stands archery is readily available to people from all walks of life and of all abilities ... such "regulation " may very well force some people out of the sport . Can every one afford to join ? or if the traders are to take up the cost , equipment becomes more expensive ...
Surely we are trying to be an all encompassing sport gathering more participants , not making it harder for people to participate ?
I love archery and hunting . It is quite the way of life for me . As such I would feel saddened an somewhat betrayed if it was dictated to by anyone but myself. I act i good faith at all times , ethically trying to harvest game whilst acting according to the law . To "dumb" down the sport , attempt to regulate against stupidity and restrict trade all in the name of appeasing people who judge the actions of scumbags as an all encompassing vision of how we all participate , hunt and shoot is detrimental to everyone, let alone a bit offensive .
The numbers of young people joining our sport , whether target, field or hunting would diminish overnite . Parents have better things to do and even better ways to spend their money. People with special needs are the same .

I feel it is would be in the interest of all to take action against any and all of these "offenders " rather than persecute what are by and large law abiding people . I would hope that we all 'do the right thing " when afield , not because of some regulating body , nor because of any trade association guidelines pamphlet , but because we are decent law abiding citizens who hunt ethically and treat all animals with respect because that is who are as people . If not , then I fear this is all arbitrary and we are wasting our time anyway .

Mongrels will always be mongrels and they break the law regardless . Always have , always will . Laws don't stop people misusing guns, buying them illegally, buying and using drugs, speeding or not paying tax ...
I don't think any regulation etc will make the non hunting public, The Greens, PETA or the government think anything different about us . Bettering our public image is our priority and again, regulation is not the best way forward

I agree with Jindy though when as he states "self regulation is the only way forward [or similiar] ". I suppose I'd reserve some enthusiasm dependant upon the definition of "self regulation "

Again as Jindy wrote
"The problem with this approach though is that we will not see licensing put a stop to idiots, and the people who would shut us down completely will be looking very hard for examples. They will find them too, absolutely certain of that, and then they will cry that "although the license system has had some effect it just isn't going far enough, and so bows must now be further regulated", and we will see more restrictions put on us
About sums it up nicely !

I think this is a discussion that needs to happen and hope that cooler heads will prevail in any decision upon such an important, albeit possibly inflammatory, issue .

[dmm]

Morning All.

If they haven't already thought of it, I imagine the ABA would be please to see a situation where all archers were required to join (and pay dues) to one of the 3 major archery clubs, to show 'active' participation in the 'sport'.

Why? And what gives AA, ABA and 3DAAA some right to be the "Gods of Archery" - or did you mean to say Clubs and we are now looking for which are the 3 major Clubs.

There are very responsible people who do not belong to any Association. There are people who belong to other Associations.

Then again some kid makes a bow from a tree branch and the next thing you know he is in court for not being licensed as well as manufacturing a regulated device. It shouldn't happen but there will be someone who will do it.

Yes, I should simply have said the ABA should be pleased with a situation where everybody is obliged to join a recognised club, like the ABA. Saying there are three, and you named the three I was thinking of, is both incorrect and irrelevant to my point.

[Steven J]

Mick here is a story that illustrates how little the retailer often knows.

One of my students recently purchased a bow from a local archery business. They only sell archery related gear from their traveling shop or from the garage.

This young lad, was provided (at an exhorbitant price) with an obviously overly long, second hand (probably 20-30 years) recurve and a set of miss matched over spined arrows (You don't need a spine guage to see that 24" long 11/32 shafts are stiff for a 35lb bow). When he brought it to school for our archery club, it had a string of such a length that it gave the bow a brace height of about 1.5 inches. The first thing I actually noticed was the welding glove he was wearing to protect his hand from the string. I spoke to his mum about the bow and she said that she though it was a bit big for him and that she wondered about the string, but the store owner told here that there is no such thing as the ideal sized bow for any given person and that the string was fine.

I called the business owner and addressed the issue. He stated that this is the way the bow came from the liquidators and that is how that bow should be set up

Secondly he explained that the boy had shot about 10 ends at their place and never complained about the string hitting his hand He clearly knows nothing about traditional archery. I also wonder about his knowledge of compound archery relating to the other gear he sells.

On talking with the owner several weeks before this incident, he expressed that one of his goals was to help out people around the area with farms and space to shoot enjoy the sport of archery. There is nothing wrong with this as a goal, however I suspect that with this kind of mentoring on offer, we might just see a few arrow stuck roos in our area featuring in the local newspaper in the months and years to come.

This story is not embellished in anyway and this has all happened in this past week.

I don't want to see any regulation of either individuals or retailers, but something needs to be done here. This level of miss-information is just a problem waiting to happen.

Steve

[looseplucker]

The thing that speaks volumes for me is the representation that the regulation is coming asif it is a done deal. As for archers being a part of the process I didn't come down in the last shower of rain. Once you have vcaved, you've caved. I would give good odds we are heading down the track of licensing and the only way to get licensed is to be in a club. Who does that benefit the most eh?

[dmm]

I don't want to see any regulation of either individuals or retailers, but something needs to be done here. This level of miss-information is just a problem waiting to happen.

I suspect this is the back story behind that bow you are building, and wanting to involve the client in the construction. I think it's terrific that you are involved.

Personally I think the answer is the internet, and the people like our goodselves, who try and answer questions in an unbiased and only slightly prejudiced way.

If this boy's mother had jumped online, come to an archery forum, created an account and posted "I want to buy a bow for my son", I reckon she would have got keen advice, and I wouldn't have been surprised if she'd even got a free bow out of it. Given your running an Archery Club it's a pity they didn't ask for your advice first.

I think the other issue here could be the support "local" traders approach, that is understandably common in regional communities, but not best practice. I haven't tired it, but I suspect if you contacted an online supplier like Tradbits (just a local example) and said I want to buy a 40# recurve bow, and some matched arrows, you'd get a ready to shoot parcel in the mail. Instead they've used the locals, and it seems the locals don't know they're stuff.

How much would you estimate he paid for this bow an arrows?

[digger]

I was asked to post this reply to a question by Jindydriver on the TBGA forum.

In future to save me the trouble of double posting, responses from the Alliance will be on the TBGA forum for those of you who are interested.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No need to ask Jindy because on behalf of the Alliance I'll tell you. I understand that you have since contacted Darryl directly and posted the results of that conversation however the following was written after your previous post and took some time to get approval of the other Alliance members so it may appear a little "out of sequence"

Firstly let me say that I am not a great fan of electronic forums because it is too easy for authors to misrepresent the facts(sometimes by accident and sometimes on purpose), and for readers to take words out of context which only serves to inflame any debate and increase the level paranoia.

In periods of crisis it's time for cool heads to prevail so on this occasion I'll put aside my personal beliefs and try and explain what the Alliance is seeking to do so that everyone is singing from the same hymnsheet.

Firstly the Alliance is against any form of bow registration or licencing and therefor by definition so are the Associations. We believe that such a scheme will not deliver any community benefit and only serve to drive people away from all forms of recreational use of the bow,both hunting and organised archery, because of the ensuing bureaucratic and costly processes involved. Such a scheme will impact on every aspect of our sport.

On Saturday afternoon at the Archery Expo, the Alliance invited the dealers who were present to attend a meeting to determine interest in a scheme for "self regulation" in the industry. Several senior members of this forum were also invited and did attend and I'm sure they can corroborate what transpired. As the Alliance has no statutory authority in any state or territory, the scheme would be on a volunteer basis only and requires dealers to abide by a code of ethics related to the sale of archery equipment. Furthermore the participating dealers would be asked to provide certain information to new bow owners outlining what we considered to be tenants of responsible bow ownership. This included such issues as "practicing in your backyard", "hunting regulations" and "the status of native game".

At its last meeting on the 6thMay, a draft letter outlining how the scheme would work and inviting dealers to provide feedback was tabled for approval. Based on the response, the Alliance will make a decision whether or not to proceed at its next meeting.

So the definition of the word "regulation" to which Darryl referred was in fact self regulation and not an imposed government regulation. The Alliance believes that a strong self regulated industry and the three organisations working together under the Alliance banner, is the best defence for our future existence as we know it.

I hope this explanation improves the understanding of the Alliance's position on the matter.

And now perhaps others can assist me. If you'd like to help, then send me the business name and owners name and address of who you purchase your gear from. If I do not already have their details, I'll add them to the invitation list. Perhaps we should be supporting those dealers who are attempting to look after our interests.

Also if you have any ideas about what those dealers should be providing I'd like to hear that as well.

As I said at the AAHOF dinner, we are all after the same outcome, lets just not get in each others way in trying to achieve those goals.

Neil Digweed
President 3DAAA
on behalf of the Archery Alliance of Australia

[dawallace45]

You can't legislate against stupidity and there will always be some clown taking a shot at a roo , licencing or not it will happen , there are always dickheads about , just like the clowns that drive at roos on the road

Legislation doesn't control the idiots , it only controls the people already doing the right thing , legislation isn't about stopping the people doing wrong , it's about milking money from those doing the right thing

You also can't legislate technology that is several thousand years old , when it comes down to it all a bow is a stick and a piece of string

On another note since we can now only buy Leupold from the one importer and they tend to keep the prices up I and a lot of people I know just refuse to buy them any more

From talking to the bow hunters I know if they were forced to be licensed and belong to a club most of them would prefer to go with the SSAA and if the ABA supported licencing those who are now members of that organisation would resign

When it comes to the availability of the cheap imports that are available in so many placed these days , for instance locally we have a archery shop but the local camping stores also stock archery gear and so do several of the produce stores , as afar as training it would make more sense for the local archery clubs to drop pamphlets into all these stores with club details and maybe have training days so people could turn up and get a little instruction , but if you made it harder for people to get access to bows then we just aren't going to get new people into the sport , hell that's how I got into it about 35 years ago , I saw a bow in a shop and bought it , got really interested and then joined a club

David

[Stickbow Hunter]

Hey digger thanks for introducing yourself

In future to save me the trouble of double posting, responses from the Alliance will be on the TBGA forum for those of you who are interested.

Quite frankly I think this and your whole post comes across rather condescending. If it was such trouble for you to post here then perhaps you just shouldn't have bothered. Also this site is not TBGA it is Ozbow a completely separate internet community with many members who do not follow TBGA forums.

If the Archery Alliance of Australia wants to get information out to Bowhunters and Archers in this country then reach out to them where they are; may I also suggest that the use of some politeness when doing so wouldn’t do any harm either.

Jeff

[kerrille]

this is what got up my nose

...I'm pretty sure it's an offence in all states to kill an animal slowly and painfully or worse to just wound it so that it escapes to suffer. In SA, for
example it is illegal to kill an animal in a way that causes unnecessary
suffering ... which makes anybody shooting animals with a bow in violation of the Animal Welfare Act. Arrows don't kill reliably or quickly. They more likely disable an animal so he or she can be beaten or stabbed to death.

"The ethics of hunting"? Anybody with even a nanogram of thought for the suffering of the animal wouldn't use a bow to kill one.

i thought someone else would have gotten on to this

...nev...

[dmm]

You also can't legislate technology that is several thousand years old , when it comes down to it all a bow is a stick and a piece of string

I think the new legislation making knives controlled weapons in Victoria is an example of where you can.

[dmm]

And now perhaps others can assist me. If you'd like to help, then send me the business name and owners name and address of who you purchase your gear from. If I do not already have their details, I'll add them to the invitation list. Perhaps we should be supporting those dealers who are attempting to look after our interests.

Digger, nice to see someone from the Archery Alliance posting here. I don't find TBGA such an interesting community, so please consider continuing to communicate with us at OzBow directly.

My current riser was purchased from Lancaster Archery in Philly, USA.
Their contact details are on their website.

Are you really going to contact overseas suppliers about this?