State Trad 3D titles

[Mick Smith]

Yeah, I know we already have some self proclaimed events proporting to be national titles and so on. These same events have been around since the year dot. Now, I'm not knocking these events or the clubs that hold them. They have done a wonderful job of promoting traditional archery over the years, but things may have changed slightly in the meantime. We now have far more trad only events Australia wide than ever before and Queensland, although still a very strong state in trad archery, no longer holds a monopoly.

I don't really know if we will ever have a fully co-ordinated national trad 3D title event in this country. I'd like to think that it can still happen. Of course, the biggest problem with trying to host a truly national event is the massive travelling distances and the problems associated with getting our best competitors all together at the one big event.

In my view, the obvious first step towards a national 3D title event would be to stage a series of state 3D title events. Now, this would be relatively easy to do. First of all, I'd forget all about abiding by the various ABA, 3DDDA, or Archery Australia rules and make up our own. It's simply too diversive to follow the code of any one of the big Australian archery organisations, as some clubs belong to one organisation and other clubs to others. The thing we all have in common is our love of attending and competing in 3D trad comps. We have a strong attendance at all the Victorian trad shoots and this following consists of members of all the big archery organisations.

The implementation of state 3D titles in Victoria couldn't be easier. We would first have to agree on some basic rules. It wouldn't matter even if some clubs shot with slightly different rules, just so long as the results are indicative of the skill required to win an event anywhere. Then, all we would have to do is put the names of all the Victorian clubs, which hold 3D events, into a hat and pull them out. The first club's name retreived from the hat could host the first 2011 state 3D titles and so on. This way, the winner of this event could be the state title holder for that year. The beauty of this idea, is that it doesn't incorporate any additional work or effort.

Personally, I think we need to grow as a sport. Recognised state titles are an obvious first step in that direction. Who knows, once we've established our state titles, we will then be able to move on with our true national titles. It would be nice to have a national 3D champion and it could do wonders for our sport.

Mick

[GrahameA]

Hi Mick.

Inherently I agree with you and I would like to see it go National.

I would suggests however that instead of calling it 3D you call it Field and open it so that whoever is hosting it has the choice of 3D, paper animal or paper field targets or a mixture. To restrict it to say 3D or some other form decrease the number of clubs that can hold it and that, IMO, is short-sighted, you want as many people/clubs as possible involved.

Personally, I don't care who the host is and even include QLHF/ALHF and SCA groups on it as long as hey provide the necessary facilities, etc.

[Mick Smith]

Hi Grahame

Your suggestion to allow the smaller clubs (who may not own 3D targets) to potentially host state title events is valid. In my experience there's little practical difference between shooting 3D targets and paper animal targets.

Thanks for your input.

Mick

[Stickbow Hunter]

Yeah, I know we already have some self proclaimed events proporting to be national titles and so on. These same events have been around since the year dot. Now, I'm not knocking these events or the clubs that hold them. They have done a wonderful job of promoting traditional archery over the years, but things may have changed slightly in the meantime. We now have far more trad only events Australia wide than ever before and Queensland, although still a very strong state in trad archery, no longer holds a monopoly.

Mick, I would like to know exactly which events you are referring to here? Also what do you mean regarding Queensland holding some sort of monopoly?

Jeff

[Mick Smith]

Jeff

I can't remember which events or club have had the audacity to proclaim their event a national event in the past, but I'm sure that it has happened. To me, it's typical of the attitude of some clubs to have believed that they owned traditional archery in the past, but what I'm now saying is that it's time to be fair dinkum and have a real national championship where the very best archers from Australia wide compete together and not just a few of the local hotshots.

My mention of a 'monopoly' was said in the past tense. There is no monopoly and there never has been.

I don't want to see this very important subject bogged down in petty arguments as it has in the past. We all have the same agenda and that is to promote traditional archery in this country and in house bickering won't achieve that aim.

I won't be answering any further questions along this line. I will be commenting further on constructive input however.

Mick

[Gene-o]

Hi Mick, I love the idea of our sport becoming national, "BUT" what about the trad archers that shoot longer distances like clout shooting etc.
It would be great if we could capture all forms of traditional archery and roll it into the one comp. How, well Im not sure just an idea mate.
Would hate to limit a national comp to just people that already shoot this type of targets.

Geneo

[Mick Smith]

Hey Geneo, thanks for taking the time to make a suggestion.

I too like to shoot clout. In fact, I really like it. There's a couple of reasons that I can see, why you might not include an event such as clout into a national trad field event. The first reason is that there is already a state and national clout event that seems to work very well. Admittedly it's not a trad only event, but trad archers are well catered for. It's run by Archery Australia. The Waverley Archers in Melbourne have always hosted the Victorian clout titles. I have competed in this event a few times. The second reason is that I would envisage that any national 3D or field event would encompass two days of solid shooting and there probably wouldn't be enough time to do any clout event the justice it deserves.

My own club, the Black Griffins also host an event called the Traditional Clout Championships every year as well. It's certainly not a state or national title event, but we do take it seriously and it is trad only and it is contested with wooden arrows only.

If you can come up with a way of combining the two events, then by all means let us all know about it. I'd like to see some form of moving target championships myself, with events such as
bow birds and running pig, etc. I believe these competitions are far too often regarded as simple novelty events at most comps. In my view, they deserve more than this, as it's a whole new area of archery that requires specialised skills.

Thanks for your input.

Mick

[GrahameA]

Hi Mick, I love the idea of our sport becoming national, "BUT" what about the trad archers that shoot longer distances like clout shooting etc.
It would be great if we could capture all forms of traditional archery and roll it into the one comp. How, well Im not sure just an idea mate.
Would hate to limit a national comp to just people that already shoot this type of targets.

Geneo

My opinion. If you want to shoot Field (in whatever form) plus longish range plus clout all at the one venue you may struggle. Plus when you say Long Range and Clout how far are you talking about?

The Clubs that have the capacity to handle all are few and far between, That does not mean they do not exist it is just that there is not a lot of them. Add to that how long an event do you want to have? Whilst I might be happy to shoot say a 60 arrow Target evnt and then go and shoot a 24 target event and then finish off the day with a 36 arrow clout event I could foresee some people having issues with it.

IMHO you have to start somewhere and Mick has a good concept.

If you want to shoot a long range event then shoot the AA Nationals or RGB events. Just take the gear you want to shoot. So if you want to shoot Longbow take along a Longbow and shoot Wood Arrows or if you want to shoot Recurve then shoot Barebow and use wood arrows.

I should say I am not a competitive type of archer - I just like to see the arrows in flight and the multitude of rules etc. annoys me so I just go along and shoot.

[hue]

the touble with using the term "national champs" is that it should be held on one spot Mick.
if you were to say, hold a national 3D championship, you couldn't do it in every state, tally up the score via the internet and voila - overall champion - purely because one club's terrain might be different to an interstate clubs terrain or it may be windy or raining or blisteringly hot anywhere round the country.
the only event that can be considered a nationwide championship and use the internet to collate the scores so that everyone shoots at the same time without being at the same venue, is indoor archery! where all things considered, everything remains constant - can't work for anything else mate, too many variables. IMHO

Hue

[little arrows]

Hey Mick,

There is already a set of Traditional Only rules that the shoots in Qld and I think some NSW (but don't quote me) shoot under, which I was considered sending to Lilydale for them to just have a look at.
The shoots that I have been to, vary in events from club to club depending on their range construction (for want of a better word). All have the same basics though, which is 3D course (some also with paper and other targets on the ranges), speed round, running target. Not all have flu flu's - then others include clout, kings round I could go on, but you get the point.
Perhaps for a "nationals/state" the club that holds the tournament can have their own unique events, but only the scores from the basics say, field course and speed round be the points that count toward the titles.

I guess it really doesn't matter, because as an example you do not have to qualify at Branch/State titles to then go to say, the ABA Nationals. I am using an example only.

So just have a big fun TRAD only shoot and the usual people who travel will come and hopefully promote it so then more people will attend the next one.

Mick, I think you should also perhaps try and do yourself a favour and see if you can get to the Wisemans Ferry Trad Shoot in October.

cheers

sue

oh and ps. don't forget trying to get Trad archers together and organised can sometime be like herding cats.

[Mick Smith]

Hue

I fully concur with everything you've said. Any 3D or field course event would have to be competed on the same course on the same day. This is why I have suggested that we have state titles before worrying too much about a national event. We can 'do' state titles much easier, as we only have to nominate one of our Victorian trad shoots as being the state title shoot. This would not only assist the club hosting the 'state title' event by possibly increasing the number of attendees, it could be done with no additional effort.

We could chose the club to host the state titles by drawing the various club's names from a hat. This would be a very fair way of doing it, as every club would get their turn to host it.

Once we had our state titles in full operation, we might then take the next step towards a national title event. How we might go about holding a national event is beyond the scope of this thread. I don't see a postal shoot as being an option for the very reasons you have already stated.

Mick

[Mick Smith]

Hi Sue,

I'm not particularly fussed by the rules, just so long as they're fair. The US rules as laid out in a recent Ozbow thread would be fine by me. It would be nice to have uniform rules, but it wouldn't be absolutely essential.

Basically I'm just kicking around ideas with a view to promoting traditional archery overall. I know that many competitors don't care about winning very much, but there's a lot who do and it couldn't do our sport any harm by having further venues to further their goals.

Who knows, a state champion, or better still a national champion might be able to act as an ambassador for our sport. They might be able to attract commercial sponsership as well, further promoting our sport. I can only see positive outcomes by taking this route.

We wouldn't have to have all our events exactly the same, just so long as everyone faces the same hurdles on the day. The only thing that would really matter would be that the 3D or field event be a true measure of the competitors skills.

I would like nothing better than making the Wisemans Ferry event in October. I know that everyone who attended it have raved about it ever since.

I've tried to herd cats in the past, so I know what I'm up against. If I fail to gain agreement and co-operation on this issue, then so be it. At least I've tried.

Mick

[greybeard]

Personally, I think we need to grow as a sport. Recognised state titles are an obvious first step in that direction. Who knows, once we've established our state titles, we will then be able to move on with our true national titles. It would be nice to have a national 3D champion and it could do wonders for our sport.
Mick

Recognised by who .

To the best of my knowledge there are no State or National Bodies governing Traditional Shoots.

Forgive me if I misinterpreted your original post but I got the impression that an archer had to win a state title to compete at a National Event.

Daryl.

[Mick Smith]

Daryl

When I was talking about a national 3D champion, I was talking about something that might eventuate at some time in the future. It isn't within the scope of this thread to plan or even discuss how we might organise a national event at this stage.

This thread is primarily about discussing the possible introduction of state 3D titles.

I very much doubt if we could ever have a trad only title recognised by all or even any of the current national bodies, as the rules are all different. I would see the title recognised by the only people who matter and that's their peers.

We have had some progress towards having a governing body for traditional archers in this country, however this process seems to have stalled for some reason. It would be very nice to have a governing body, particularly if it was one that was reasonable and transparent. It's not really within the scope of this thread to delve further into this aspect though.

I don't particularly care who recognises our state title winners. The same applies, if we ever manage to hold national titles as well. As to the rules of who can compete in a national event and whether or not it must be a state title winner is open to discussion, seeing as there's no governing body at present.

Mick

[Stickbow Hunter]

Firstly let me state quite clearly I have no interest in State or National Traditional Archery competitions yet I certainly have nothing against anyone wishing to organize such events or those who wish to attend them.

Mick Smith said:

Yeah, I know we already have some self proclaimed events proporting to be national titles and so on. These same events have been around since the year dot. Now, I'm not knocking these events or the clubs that hold them. They have done a wonderful job of promoting traditional archery over the years, but things may have changed slightly in the meantime. We now have far more trad only events Australia wide than ever before and Queensland, although still a very strong state in trad archery, no longer holds a monopoly.

I can't remember which events or club have had the audacity to proclaim their event a national event in the past, but I'm sure that it has happened. To me, it's typical of the attitude of some clubs to have believed that they owned traditional archery in the past, but what I'm now saying is that it's time to be fair dinkum and have a real national championship where the very best archers from Australia wide compete together and not just a few of the local hotshots.

You may call it petty bickering or whatever you like Mick and as you say, you won’t be replying, but I will not let your comments above go without rebuttal as I find them very derogatory.

You see Mick there is a National Traditional Bowhunting/Archery event which has been running for over twenty years now and that event is ‘The Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ presently hosted by the Gladstone Bowhunters Club. Please note the word Australian in the title. It is there because this event truly was/is a national event. The organizers of this event don’t and never have to my knowledge, made any claim that the Muster was/is a National Traditional Archery Championship, however it certainly was/is a national Trad get together.

The Muster actually started back in 1988 as ‘The Australian Longbow Safari’ as it was run in a similar fashion to the ‘North American Longbow Safari’. Due to the shoot being run under the ABA banner in the first few years the ABA executive made the organizers change its name so as not to include the word Australian or Safari.

The event name was changed to ‘The Annual Longbow Muster’ with the word muster being used because it was Australian and meant the “gathering together” of like minded people.

I can’t recall the exact year (early 1990’s) but the name was changed again for the sole purpose of representing the true meaning on the event; it was changed to ‘The AUSTRALIAN Longbow Muster’ much to the disgust of ABA I might add. Because of insurance problems in those days it was a personal risk for the Muster Committee to run the event outside the banner of the ABA insurance.

After eleven Longbow Musters the Gladstone Bowhunters took over the running of the event from the Longbow Muster committee and changed the name yet again to the present name of ‘The Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ so as to include all Trad bows.

The Longbow Muster to my knowledge was the only event of its kind in this country for quite a few years. It became a big family like gathering of Longbow men and women and children each year. The participants came from nearly every state in Australia, from New Zealand and even Europe. A team came from New Zealand for the Muster each year and some still come to this day I believe.

Even though in the early years the event was only open to Longbows I don’t believe any Trad event in recent years has had as many participants attend as what Australian Longbow Muster attracted.

Not that it matters but I will say Mick that I have seen some of the very best Trad shooters in Australia and New Zealand in action at the Musters along with some of the local hot shots and not so hot shots.

I think it is correct to say that a number of the Trad shoots in this country today were started by people who attended the Musters.

So Mick, to me and many others the ‘The Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ truly is a NATIONAL event and part of the Australian Traditional Bowhunting/Archery history. The Gladstone Bowhunters Club should call their event, ‘The Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’, a NATIONAL event and be very proud to do so.

IMO for anyone to say they should do differently is doing Australia’s Traditional Bowhunting/Archery history a disservice.

Jeff

[Mick Smith]

I only have two questions for you Jeff. Who is our current national champion? Who recognises this person as our national champion?

Mick

[Stickbow Hunter]

Who is our current national champion? Who recognises this person as our national champion?

There is none Mick because as you say, there is no National Trad Championship and IMO there is little possibility in achieving such a Championship as there are such varied disciplines when it come to Trad Archery. Individual Associations having their own is probably as good as it will get for those wishing for such a thing.

Jeff

[Mick Smith]

I don't mean any disrespect to you Jeff. If some of my earlier remarks were found by you to be offensive, I apologise. I predicted your response and tried to circumvent or perhaps even prevent it to some extent, as I didn't want it to derail constructive discussion on this subject.

Yes, the Gladstone Bowhunters have done much to be proud of and they're certainly a part of Australian bowhunting and trad shoot history.

And also yes, it is probably an empty pipe dream to even consider it possible to have a fully co-ordinated and recognised national 3D event in this country, so much the pity.

You never know, the current national bodies might slowly change their dogmatic views, but I won't hold my breath waiting for it.

Even if we, the trad shooting fraternity of this country, decided to go ahead and hold state/national titles, the fact that the various clubs are governed by the various national bodies, they would probably prohibit their particular club's participation in it.

It's nice to think that it could succeed though. I believe the main problem is that the various national bodies regard us trad shooters as some pathetic sideshow to what they believe is the real business of competitive archery in this country, which is either compounds or olympic style recurves.

Mick

[Stickbow Hunter]

No hard feelings Mick we all get a little passionate about things that are important to us and I am sorry if I was a bit heavy with my response. I didn't want to derail this thread either but wanted to validate the Gladstone Bowhunters Club hosting a national Trad event.

Back on topic:

And also yes, it is probably an empty pipe dream to even consider it possible to have a fully co-ordinated and recognised national 3D event in this country, so much the pity.

You have been supportive of this for a long time now and I understand your passion. To do it isn't impossible but a 3D event is only one type of Trad event and going by the replies in this thread people seem to expect other types of events as well. That would be one of your biggest hurdles IMO. The way I see things is Trad Bowhunters prefer 3D events and are usually not interested in target archery style events whereas Trad Archers seem to prefer target archery style events and will also shoot 3D. I think it would be difficult to please everyone as you well know. Anyway, keep plugging along as pipe dreams can come true.

Jeff

[greybeard]

Even if we, the trad shooting fraternity of this country, decided to go ahead and hold state/national titles, the fact that the various clubs are governed by the various national bodies, they would probably prohibit their particular club's participation in it.
Mick

Mick,

North Albert Field Archers Inc. a club that I have been a member of for over thirty years is affiliated with 3DAAA.

Our traditional shoots are sanctioned by 3DAAA for insurance purposes.

3DAAA have no input as to how we run the event with the exception that a certified person [in our case a certified club member] checks the safety of the range layout.

Daryl.

[GrahameA]

Morning All.

IMHO.

If someone wanted to run a Traditional 3D event at either a State or National level the opportunity is there. What everyone needs to realise that the more rules you make the more complex and difficult it becomes.

As an example:

If the rules more less state that the club holding/hosting the event sets the rules then a lot of issues are overcome.

If the Trad archers wanted they could all go along to the 3D Nationals or State and agree amongst each other to shoot to a set of "Trad Rules" and then choose a winner(s) from amongst those. (The Vic' titles are in Oct at DVD I believe.)

[Mick Smith]

I don't see the rules being all that much of a problem. The name of the game is to stick your arrows into the kill zone, that remains the same. How it's scored doesn't matter just so long as everyone is equally effected.

The bow type divisions could be a slight issue though. I believe the common concensus of opinion is that we have three categories, longbow, recurve and historic. I also believe that we have concensus on what bow charactistics constitute each of the three categories.

For this whole thing to happen, we need lots of co-operation between trad shooters and the various clubs. Because this concept hasn't originated from any of the large governing bodies, we need to make up for that by have large numbers of people working together to achieve mutual aims.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would much rather see our trad titles controlled independantly by the majority of our various clubs, not by one of the big national governing bodies. I believe that many of us don't like participating in big, all bow type competitions. You only have to look at the low numbers of regularly attending trad event competitors at these sorts of events to know they much prefer the ambience and more laid back style of a typical trad only shoot.

Another problem with letting a national organisation such as AA control the trad titles is that they require all competitors to be fully paid up members of AA for their achievements to be recognised and membership to that organisation isn't cheap. Most people simply aren't willing to fork out big sums of cash, just on the possiblity of winning a place at their state titles, therefor the number of competitors is artifically low and the recognisition of the achievement isn't as respected as much by most trad archers generally.

If we kept the control of the 'real' state titles, we will have a democratic say on how they should be run. Entry will be cheap and it would be open for all. It will never work if control is given to just one national body.

As far as the proposed state titles go, if the various clubs who might be interested in hosting state titles at their club, could contact their governing body seeking approval, this would be the first step.

The second step would be for all the clubs who felt they were eligible (allowed) to host the state titles let the rest of us know.

The third step would simply involve chosing an eligible club to host the event each year. This would have to be a fair and impartial process.

So, as far as I can see, the whole process would be relatively simple and straightforward affair. It is achievable, but it would take lots of participation and co-operation.

The ball in is our court. Let's do something with it.

Mick

[GrahameA]

Morning All

For this whole thing to happen, we need lots of co-operation between trad shooters and the various clubs. Because this concept hasn't originated from any of the large governing bodies, we need to make up for that by have large numbers of people working together to achieve mutual aims.

Yes.

I don't know about anyone else, but I would much rather see our trad titles controlled independantly by the majority of our various clubs, not by one of the big national governing bodies. I believe that many of us don't like participating in big, all bow type competitions. You only have to look at the low numbers of regularly attending trad event competitors at these sorts of events to know they much prefer the ambience and more laid back style of a typical trad only shoot.

Yes. And also probably we prefer the offical lack of officialdom.

Another problem with letting a national organisation such as AA control the trad titles is that they require all competitors to be fully paid up members of AA for their achievements to be recognised and membership to that organisation isn't cheap. Most people simply aren't willing to fork out big sums of cash, just on the possiblity of winning a place at their state titles, therefor the number of competitors is artifically low and the recognisition of the achievement isn't as respected as much by most trad archers generally.

Yes. I would be happy to argue the case why AA would be the worst body to choose. 3D is shot as part of FITA and you would be bound by both AA and FITA Rules. Have a look how complicated the FITA rules are for 3D: http://www.archery.org/UserFiles/Docume ... 202010.pdf

If we kept the control of the 'real' state titles, we will have a democratic say on how they should be run. Entry will be cheap and it would be open for all. It will never work if control is given to just one national body.

Yes and No. IMHO it could work it just depends on who it is and their approach.

[Shrek]

Mick,I think the concept is great,the big hurdle as I see it is getting a like minded,forward thinking group of tradders Aust. wide to coordinate this series.3daaa does not have to many problems with sanctioning two great trad shoots in Qld's south east and pretty much leaves it up to the clubs involved.The Gladstone Muster does their own thing and bits of both ABA&3daaa are used as it is also on Norfolk Island and this all works well.In the gun community S S A A have a byannual black powder rendevous which is their trad disipline held at the same place which is purpose built for this event, but they do give non SSAA shooters a cool reception,so a national Traditional Guild of archers which is non denominational and welcomes all comers, with the Nat. champs. held at a spot with in a reachable drive or flight from all directions is a thought.I would gladly pay a membership to a national guild to see an event like this happen.As Greybeard mentioned the Nth Albert shoot over two days incorporates alot into 2days,as does the muster,so it can be done.It would be a great thing to have happen.

[Mick Smith]

This thread doesn't seemed to have stirred as much interest in the concept as I'd hoped. Either Ozbow isn't being frequented by committee members of the clubs who host trad shoots, or simply no one is particularly interested in it. Time will tell, I suppose.

Personally, I would have nothing to gain from the idea, as my scores are usually worthy of nothing but pity at most trad shoots, so I could never aspire to be a state champion. I would gain some satisfaction in seeing traditional archery grow though perhaps.

In the unlikely event that a series of states titles actually does get off the ground the people who would be best qualified to administer it, would be a committee made up of one person from each of the clubs participating in it.

Mick

[longbowinfected]

Mick,

Couple of points:
1. fewer than 10% of attendees realistically are in the hunt at most shoots
2. if you are really competitive by nature you already have that covered elsewhere in AA or ABA or in your local trad independent club or whatever floats your boat but having said that most shoot at a particular brand as that is the closest centre
3, most trad archers I know have a very good idea of where they sit on the totem pole and really go to trad shoots to have a good time with their mates plus meet a few more like minded folk with perhaps a interest in asmall way to test themselves against a couple of same echelon mates, mainly for bragging rights, target by target
4.most trad shooters run away from anything organised
5. most do not have the financial freedom to travel all over Oz with their families and friends but pick and choose a few favourite events,,they are busy dong other things most of the time
I do not think there are enough free long weekends to allow the best to all attend ever...it is too big a country

Must say I do like the US Archery Society's trad rules and the rules Robert McKenzie uses at Wisemans [orignated by the two members fro Qld on here] both work for me. You should think of looking at the HVTA events as well as Robert's they are top quality. I know nothing of the shoots in NQ but obviously to stay a success they have something there too. I cringe at the thought of yet more discussions on rules. The boys did a good job and we should think about using them for a while universally then discusing them.

Kev

[Gringa Bows]

i go to trad shoots to have a beer talk to like minded people about making bows, hunting,have a laugh mingle with people with no pressure last thing on my mind is getting a good score,and did i say have a beer,if they ever got serious i'd give them a miss.....................Rod

[Len]

I think Micks on the money with this. And I think we need to focus on state titles before we worry about national ones . That way we are not running into the problems off travel and time off work etc. Once we have our state comps sorted we can then worry about national titles down the track a bit.
The big thing will be to get all the various clubs/organisationa/states to agree on a set of rules and bow divisions.
Personally I'd go with ; longbow, recurve ( wooden risers only ) historical and wooden arrows only.
Who would run it ? Well thats another big question but surely we can find an answer.

[Mick Smith]

Kev

I agree with everything you've said. In a nutshell, what I've proposed is just another trad shoot that was going to happen anyway. What is slightly different about it is that it just might also happen to be called the state titles as well. I feel that people who were going to attend wouldn't be put off by this fact and yet it might attract some more of the 10 percent who are actually in the 'hunt', so to speak.

When I've spoken about state titles I've really been talking about Victoria. I don't have any experience with interstate shoots. In Victoria we have a bunch of people who turn up at most shoots. I would expect the same bunch to turn up to a state title shoot, seeing as it's would simply be a shoot that they would attend anyway.

Any mention of Australian nationals has only been incidental and hypothetical. This thread is about state titles and as such, the large travelling distances aren't really an issue. Any national title event would have many obsticals to overcome before becoming practical.

As it is, we have about 8 big trad shoots in Victoria each year, yet nothing is ever really decided. There's a winner at each event, but there's never an overall winner. I'm simply proposing that there be an overall state winner each year.

As far as any rules are concerned, if you read back over what I've said so far, you will notice that I've hardly mentioned rules at all. I don't think rules are much of an issue for a state title, as the name of the game is putting arrows into kill zones and how it's scored is unimportant. I believe all the states should have uniform bow categories, if possible, being recurve, longbow and historic and I also believe that this is the preferred option for most. This thread really isn't about rules anyway. It's about making something that we already do anyway, a lot more interesting for the 10 percent of good shooters and a little bit more interesting for the rest of us.

I can't see anything but plusses and win win situations with this concept.

Mick

[Mick Smith]

Rod

I know where you're coming from mate. I feel much the same. I like nothing better than talking BS to my mates. The shooting is only incidental.

The only practical thing that would be make a state title event any different to any other trad event would be what's written on the trophies, nothing else. It wouldn't be a special event. It would be an existing event with a slight addition to its title, that's all.

The 90 percent of shooter that aren't in the hunt, as far as winning is concerned, would continue in the same manner as before, including having a drink in the evenings around the campfire.

Mick