Calling all longbow and barebow AA Indoor shooters

[longbowinfected]

This is a copy of text that I placed on the Archery Forum thread about the World Indoor Archery Challenge on page 5. Please consider adding further comment in this matter. I have gone through the standard official channels with no reasonable response or action. Stand up for your right to shoot bare bow. Write in. Join the other bare bow shooters on the line and shame them.

"I believe that the automatic amalgamation of children's and master/veteran unsighted/bare bow divisions still applies even though there has been strong complaint. If it has been changed because of common sense and fairness I apologize.

Why were the longbow divisions forced to be amalgamated by royal decree for Master's and Veterans?
Putting all barebow divisions aside and considering only sighted divisions as listed in the entry lists for this year's WIAC, all senior, masters and veteran longbow divisions exceed or equal in number more than 14 other sighted divisions.
SHAME.

Stop disenfranchising fellow archers. Especially groups that are growing number. It is not giving us a fair go.
Otherwise apply the same rules to those other sighted divisions.
The argument that the move was made to "keep the faith" "not give away free medals" "for the good of the pure sport" "to ensure proper competition" are merely false mantra to hide discrimination. There is no further possible explanation in defense of that position.
Unless the powers to be immediately reverse their ridiculous position their position cannot be seen in any other terms than an abuse of power and a discriminatory act.
We were promised a review after a lot of pressure was applied.
I call upon the powers that be to review the situation prior to the event as a demonstration of common sense."



Kevin

[hue]

hi Kevin

i've been pushing the barebow barrel on AF for about 18 months now, and these days, i don't bother anymore. they simply do not care for our style and do not take us seriously, there's never been enough of us (or haven't they heard of ABA). AF these days is nothing more than 6 -8 of the same people congratulating each other all the time and i really believe that Claire Barnes should get off that arrogant ivory tower that she looks down from and just keep reciting the rules, which is a pity, cos in the past, i've enjoyed some of her posts. that answer she gave you was innapropriate and patronizing. don't worry about them Kevin, that's why we have Ozbow.

Hue

[longbowinfected]

Hi Hue,
Hope all goes well with you, your folk and your studies.
I am completing my Forestry Degree with the University of Melbourne this year.

I know you are right.
I too have been pushing the banner.
I love shooting ALL types of events anytime, everytime.
I will not give in. The logic of the process and procedures justdoes not sit right for mine.
There are pretty important principles being ridden over rough shod here.
Knowing that, walking away and doing nothing is worse. This is how the bullies in history get started then escalate.
I do not care that much that I have to compete against veterans. I do care that the process in deciding so and the actions determined to be necesary cannot be defended as they are discriminatory and have not been applied evenly, consistently. The action is unnecessary, unfair and un-Australian.
Hopefully a few more like minded folk throw their two bob's worth in to even up the ledger a bit.

Kevin

[GrahameA]

Morning All

IMHO The way forward in AA with Barebow and Longbow in AA is to keep on just pushing the concept - gently. Getting dragged into arguments will get you nowhere.

Hue, do you know that Clare is a Longbow shooter?

I find I get more results by shooting my bow and letting people see it in action.

I seriously recommend that if you want to change things you will have the greatest success from the inside.

Last weekend I was at the Abbey - the Archery at that event was run by members primarily of a Target Archery club. Interestingly, there where at least 8 AA Archers there. Including the RGB Coaching Co-ordinator, RGB Coach, a Club Secretary and the RGB high performance co-ordinator dropped by for a visit. And they all own longbows.

Change is slow but it can happen and it will. Upsetting people just makes it harder.

[longbowinfected]

Grahame,

This is probably the only time I have disagreed in part with you.
I do agree that gently would be best.
I have and do promote longbow and barebow at every possible AA shoot I can. I am even a coach, one of two club coaches [both bare bow] who carry out the training in recurve for beginners in our club. We work within the system. I attend State Council meetings. This is not political it is about a fair go.
Since I have been in AA I have seen three years through a "bare bow" frame of reference. By your post now and others it appears that you do not support unfair practices. Excuse our impatience. It is important to challenge that inequity as and when it happens. At a critical tipping point others will see the inequity and put their shoulders to the wheel of change. I will always attempt to work within the system but in this particular area the system patently does not work.
If it did I would have received one official response by one responsible national office bearer in a reasoned creditable manner. Funny thing, I raise reasonable questions and get excuses without a seriously thought out logic pattern. Whatever happens has to be fair. If you apply a rule of restriction do it to all or aply a well reasoned rule of positive discrimination rather than negative discrimination. Perhaps "they'" get upset because they know that what they are doing cannot be explained and properly defended. The stance is really "because we can". It is totally irrelevant to a discussion on fair dealing / discrimination to say that I shoot the same bow.
Take a couple of harsh examples from history [probably going to be offensive to some]:
Quisling: hey, I am one of you
Mussolini: hey, I am one of you
Vichey: hey, I am one of you
All true but did not exclude the fact that incorrect or inappropriate action was being carried out.
We are making progress.
I have had nothing but immediate understanding and total support from my State RGB. In fact the State Council wrote to National on this issue and complained.
They at least understand the inequity.
It did not matter whether they owned, shot or even liked bare bows and it shouldn't.
Another group at risk are cross bow folk.
Do I own or shoot one? No.
Do I ever want to shoot one? No.
Are they archers? Yes even though the are called arbalists.
Do I defend their right to fair treatment? Yes

Kevin

[GrahameA]

Hi Kevin

Since I have been in AA I have seen three years through a "bare bow" frame of reference. By your post now and others it appears that you do not support unfair practices. Excuse our impatience. It is important to challenge that inequity as and when it happens.

Nope do not support unfair practices and like you I am not happy with the current state of events.

But for me I think we can change it quicker and more effectively by working within the system.

[longbowinfected]

I have a bit of a delay thing going on right now...am overseas in Asia.
I sort of thought that a bit after my post on AF clare came up with a much better solution to this than currently applied which is at least fairer as far as consistency goes, so it sort of worked. At least there is reasonable dialogue and you cannot fix things without dialogue.
good to chat with you Grahame.
Hope all is well with you and your world.
Kevin

[Brett Finger]

how the heck can shooting a bow with sites, release aids, stablizers and all the other "preformance enhanceing" bibs & bobs even be considered to be "archery" in the first place..... One man / One Bare Longbow/Recurve....

the desire to be the Best/ Greatest / Egotistical (sp ) has for mine, been the scourge of Man, and the downfall of Empires.

Haveing these people look down their noses / sites / Magnifyed sites! to the good folks whome shoot TRAD is an embrassment to Free Bowmen everyware...

Kind Regards, Brett....
Ps, this is NOT ment to enflame anyone,just my personal view...

[danceswithdingoes]

Hue you are way out of line attacking Clare here. I have entered into the SQAS Inddors in RBB, it is only the world match that doesnt recognise the barebow events but to counter that the World Indoor Barebow Championships have been running for several years now with very poor Australian representation, perhap Longbowinfected you could bang your drum in that direction and leave current sleeping dogs lie.
http://www.barebow.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=18

[hue]

hey Dances

when did i attack Clare?

Hue

[longbow steve]

Hi DWD, The issue Kevin is talking about has nothing to do with WIAC, It has to do with the amalgamating of Barebow categories in the AA indoor nationals. Steve

[longbowinfected]

DWD
thanks for your help. I tried that site last year and was advised there that it was closed. There was not much working function to it when I tried then and again as per your invitation just now. Could not get any worthwhile info other than the rules are the same as last year but no last year rules to check. Disatisfied potential customer then, even more disatisfied customer now but will give it a go another day. open mind....love to be in it. I am in AA, shoot longbow, does that fit into the scheme?

Steve is correct.

It is and has been about accountability, fairness. If you want to amalgamate all the unsighted masters and veterans plus the unsighted juniors, why not apply such a rule across the board. To do otherwise is discriminatory and un-Australian. They admitted that longbow was growing. The numbers were good the last couple of years and getting better. The rub is that there are 14 sighted divisions that have fewer shooters than the divisions being picked on. Very simple.
I respect your right to censure me. I disagree with you.
I have asked reasonable quesions in that area for over a year politely but firmly....through the system.
Sad thing was that Clare and I were reaching a pretty fair outcome.
By way of a minor indication of some of the blatant dishonesty involved someone who is quick to quote statistics made comments intended to denigrate the successful continued growth of bare bow and longbow that are patently untrue. People accept this without question. Coming from one of the people involved in the computer records to say that only two target loads' of longbowers [that would be 6?] attended last year's Morwell Nationals when in reality the highest number ever [13 target, 14 field, 17 clout] made the effort and to use that figure which was wrong to bag such folk as not getting involved paints the picture very accurately that a fair go is not given.

I am a member of AA. I choose to object strongly and often. The owner of AF can kick me off any time he wishes. He is a big boy. I raise the issues here in order to gain support for longbowers and others in AA who do not get a fair go. I like to think I have done it in a fair and not too abusive manner. I apologize if this offends you. That was not the intent. I fail to see the point in copping it.

Kevin

[danceswithdingoes]

hey Dances

when did i attack Clare?

Hue

i really believe that Claire Barnes should get off that arrogant ivory tower that she looks down from and just keep reciting the rules

[danceswithdingoes]

Ive just revisited the target allocations for SQAS and there are MBBR, BBR, VBBR, cadets, intermediate Longbow and even MBBC divisions where is the amalgamation occurring?

[GrahameA]

http://www.archerysqas.org.au/2008_indo ... llocations

[danceswithdingoes]

I think every division in AA is covered there.....except crossbow

[GrahameA]

Hi Ding

Ive just revisited the target allocations for SQAS and there are MBBR, BBR, VBBR, cadets, intermediate Longbow and even MBBC divisions where is the amalgamation occurring?

At a National level I understand.

[Southern Fox]

"When you come up against a rock and you can't get over it, go around it". I decided life was too short to worry about not being able to compete in the way I wanted so I and others started our own independent club and oh the wonderful freedom of it all! I will still compete in AA/AV events but have other fish to fry now.

[longbowinfected]

DWD
Please do not be offended, that is not my intent.
all bare bow masters and veterans plus all childrens divisions in bare bow for the National Indoor have been singled out, treated like second class members amalgamated by motion even though the figures say we are growing and that 14 sighted divisions have fewer shooters than all the senior, masters and veteran longbows for instance. No other divisions included. Listen to the beat of the drum that you complained about.
Set in concrete. By beating my drum after reading the info on AF and in AA magazine I objected and at least got a concession that it would be reviewed.
Patently unfair if only directed at barebow/unsighted divisions. The reason I keep banging my drum is because nice folk like you have not kept yourselves informed, read what is written carefully enough, thought about it and then objected if they thought it was reasonable to complain. Very few in the sighted divisions are going to march to the the beating of the drum. However my state council has on our behalf to AA. The lack of support from unsighted barebow shooters in AA or other is amazing.

One of the few to say his bit was Hue. I think highly of Hue and really understand his strong feelings. I think he could have toned it down a bit but if he didn't you would not have even noticed that there was a problem.

Kevin

[danceswithdingoes]

that's big ole apathetic me Have you organised a petition to forward to AA? Have you sent emails outlining your objections to the relevant authorities? AA is painfully slow on anything that does not attract federal funding. I completed my L2 Club Coach course several years ago and despite numerous promises I still have not recieved the paperwork, but I still keep emailing those responsible (although they probably have me listed as junk email now) and trying to get the status quo changed. As for Hue, I wont sit by and see a friend criticised unfairly on a forum she probably never visits and not speak up, I did and so be it. Continue your good fight but perhaps the Indoor thread was not the best place to conduct it. BTW it irks me that FITA has no target ranking for BareBow.

[hue]

Hey DWD

that's gotta be a record for your L2. some two years ago, 15 of our club members sat for their L1 and that only took two years to reach them from AA. it was only when my VP demanded the clubs money back did we see certification. Yes, they've only just recieved them.

Hue

[longbowinfected]

DWD

Sorry for the delay but I have been travelling from Asia back to Oz. Kuala Lumpur has an Indoor archery centre / restaurant. I was too busy to get there but will the next time. My hosts from last visit want to learn barebow.

Indoor thing
Yeah mate, I sent the emails, even put a motion in at state level and got 100% support..... did everything but a petition.
Have to say that I attempted to contact every National Board member by the section on the AA website, half bounced and no answers from the rest.
AA / Coaching courses
NSW ran some coaching classes recently and we got our documentation / credentials within the promised time of a few months afterwards. The biggest problem was everyone getting their required work in. Nice surprise compared to other things.
FITA
Got to agree with you on the lack of FITA recognition. At least there is the website that recognises all field divisions including longbow. A few Aussies are in those rankings.

Kevin