On Behalf of Perry
What do people want:
2 divisions (pre-fibreglass era) Historical division and (post fibreglass era) Modern Bow
3 divisions Modern Longbow , Modern Recurve and Primitive/Traditional division
As your aware the rules thread is going in ever expanding circles and thought this may help
The poll will run for 14 days.
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Addenda by me. Think very carefully about what you wish for - it may come true.
Traditional Archery Divisions
Moderator: Moderators
Traditional Archery Divisions
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
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Mick Smith
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
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longbowinfected
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:42 pm
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Southern Fox
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
3 div
3 divisions providing horse bows are in the primitive/Trad division. I have lost track of the final decision there.
"...destiny does not just happen to you. You have to pursue it vigorously...."
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danceswithdingoes
- Posts: 567
- Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 5:48 pm
- Location: Kyogle NSW
Hi Grahame,
Thank you for running this poll.
Two divisions.
If there were sufficient numbers trad shoots should be no glass bows, wood arrows with feathers and encouragement where the archer/competitor made his own equipment.
Daryl.
ps. hopefully people can only vote once.
Thank you for running this poll.
Two divisions.
If there were sufficient numbers trad shoots should be no glass bows, wood arrows with feathers and encouragement where the archer/competitor made his own equipment.
Daryl.
ps. hopefully people can only vote once.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
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Southern Fox
- Posts: 83
- Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
4 div
Dancingwithdingoes has a good point.
"...destiny does not just happen to you. You have to pursue it vigorously...."
2 divisions. Traditional and modern.
There is no need to segregate recurve and longbow - they both cast the arrow according to the skill of the archer in technique and tuning.
Traditional - made by hand from natural materials.
Modern - requiring modern machinery or manufacturing to acquire materials.
Shane
There is no need to segregate recurve and longbow - they both cast the arrow according to the skill of the archer in technique and tuning.
Traditional - made by hand from natural materials.
Modern - requiring modern machinery or manufacturing to acquire materials.
Shane
Hi Darryl
My "Technically Challenged" acquaintance from the Northside had a few issues getting the poll working and so threw it in my court. It has only taken me since the weekend to get it resolved - I even resorted to reading the Users Manual.[i]greybeard[/i] wrote:Hi Grahame,
Thank you for running this poll.
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
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White Hawk
- Posts: 436
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- Location: Melbourne
- Contact:
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jape
Can we sort this out without definitions? I don't think so, but good luck!
I like the idea of 'traditional' division as selfbow or composite, whatever type ie flat/long recurve/mongolian etc, but authentic materials only including string and arrows.
Then 'modern', including ELB, mongolians, flatbows, korean, using glass, carbon-fibre, modern materials and glues. If 'modern' should then be divided that's up to the consensus if we can get one.
And I don't care if compounds/monsters etc. are in that division or what arrows are used.
I like the idea of 'traditional' division as selfbow or composite, whatever type ie flat/long recurve/mongolian etc, but authentic materials only including string and arrows.
Then 'modern', including ELB, mongolians, flatbows, korean, using glass, carbon-fibre, modern materials and glues. If 'modern' should then be divided that's up to the consensus if we can get one.
And I don't care if compounds/monsters etc. are in that division or what arrows are used.
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jape
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Chase N. Nocks
- Posts: 1463
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Samebsrecurve wrote:i voted for 3 - i also think that in the modern divisions arrow material should be open to alloys and carbons IMO.
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
The following may appear to be a bit off track with the poll thread but still relevant to bow classifications.
Southern Fox,
Can you please explain the reasons why you believe that your modern fibreglass reproduction of a static tip bow should be placed in the traditional / primitive division?
At the moment I can only come to the conclusion that you have not yet mastered the bow or you believe that its performance is lacking and you feel threatened by recurve bows.
Daryl.
Southern Fox,
Can you please explain the reasons why you believe that your modern fibreglass reproduction of a static tip bow should be placed in the traditional / primitive division?
At the moment I can only come to the conclusion that you have not yet mastered the bow or you believe that its performance is lacking and you feel threatened by recurve bows.
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken. [Ascham]
“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]
I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....
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Gringa Bows
- Posts: 6331
- Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2007 7:09 pm
- Location: Bundaberg QLD
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Chase N. Nocks
- Posts: 1463
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Yes thanks for the poll Grahame. I have tried to find out how to do one. Am I right to assume that only admin can create a poll?
Cheers mate
Cheers mate
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
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Mick Smith
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
Regardless of whether the majority of members opt for 2 or 3 divisions, I firmly believe that we should stick with wooden arrows only. If we allowed synthetic arrows into comps, it would sound the death knoll for wooden arrows as they simply wouldn't be competitive.
You just have to look at the AA nationals, there were lots of competitors who normally wouldn't touch a synthetic arrow all year, who resorted to getting out their aluminiums just to compete in the nationals. They knew they simply wouldn't be competitive with the archers who were using synthetic arrows on the day otherwise.
Back to the poll, I suppose I was the person who was the most vocal in favour of introducing 2 divisions (Historical/Modern). The thing is though, I wasn't just simply advocating 2 divisons, I was advocating a whole new system whereby the shooters of any certain bow types wouldn't be disadvantaged, including horsebow shooters. It's for this reason that I'm totally dissatisfied with this poll, regardless of the outcome.
I'm still yet to hear just one good reason why longbow shooters should have their own division, when horsebow shooters don't. I'm still yet to hear just one jood reason why recurves and longbows should be in separate divisons when it has already been agreed by many, that certain longbows will outperform certain recurves and vice versa. It seems to me that the current 3 divison system is so full of inconsistancies, that it's unworkable.
Mick
You just have to look at the AA nationals, there were lots of competitors who normally wouldn't touch a synthetic arrow all year, who resorted to getting out their aluminiums just to compete in the nationals. They knew they simply wouldn't be competitive with the archers who were using synthetic arrows on the day otherwise.
Back to the poll, I suppose I was the person who was the most vocal in favour of introducing 2 divisions (Historical/Modern). The thing is though, I wasn't just simply advocating 2 divisons, I was advocating a whole new system whereby the shooters of any certain bow types wouldn't be disadvantaged, including horsebow shooters. It's for this reason that I'm totally dissatisfied with this poll, regardless of the outcome.
I'm still yet to hear just one good reason why longbow shooters should have their own division, when horsebow shooters don't. I'm still yet to hear just one jood reason why recurves and longbows should be in separate divisons when it has already been agreed by many, that certain longbows will outperform certain recurves and vice versa. It seems to me that the current 3 divison system is so full of inconsistancies, that it's unworkable.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.
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longbowinfected
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:42 pm
Mick, I hear what you are saying but do not totally agree with your view on timber arrows. Please do not take this personally but in my case, for me and what I do and put in there really is not that much difference.
I find that when you are the only person shooting timbers against metals it makes you go harder and sometimes it really rattles your opposition when you get close.
I shot the National field with timbers and so did Timbow. I do not know about the others because I did not shoot with the seniors.
Tim's scores were good.
My scores were not as good as they can be or as good as his but they weren't that shabby... especially when considering that I had not shot with timbers for four months and I only made the decision on the day.
Having said that I have only been shooting longbow for a couple of years and the scores I shot equalled my PBs of less than a year ago with metals.
I do not know how many seniors used timbers but I suspect my scores were equal to if not better than some folk using metals who have shot for much longer than myself.
When I watch the likes of Robert McKenzie and Ian Stokes shooting timbers and then cast my mind back to the heroes in the past they did quite well.
For mine I am quite happy to compete against metals because I am really competing against my own PBs. In field out to 40 metres I really only see a 5%-10% difference and that can be improved if I actually practised as much with them as I have over two years with metals.
Anyone who beats me would do so in most cases no matter what I shot or even what they shot. Good luck to them.
I just enjoy using timber, it feels right for me and at the end of the day I still have fun. I plan to shoot much more with timbers at AA as possible, that way when Icome up against trad shooters at least I will not embarass myself too much. I am even endeavouring to get an ELB and start competing at AA with timbers. Should be a hoot and I really do not think there will be much difference in my scores as long as I tune my arrows as you taught/have advised us and for which I am beholden to you and others.
Kevin
I find that when you are the only person shooting timbers against metals it makes you go harder and sometimes it really rattles your opposition when you get close.
I shot the National field with timbers and so did Timbow. I do not know about the others because I did not shoot with the seniors.
Tim's scores were good.
My scores were not as good as they can be or as good as his but they weren't that shabby... especially when considering that I had not shot with timbers for four months and I only made the decision on the day.
Having said that I have only been shooting longbow for a couple of years and the scores I shot equalled my PBs of less than a year ago with metals.
I do not know how many seniors used timbers but I suspect my scores were equal to if not better than some folk using metals who have shot for much longer than myself.
When I watch the likes of Robert McKenzie and Ian Stokes shooting timbers and then cast my mind back to the heroes in the past they did quite well.
For mine I am quite happy to compete against metals because I am really competing against my own PBs. In field out to 40 metres I really only see a 5%-10% difference and that can be improved if I actually practised as much with them as I have over two years with metals.
Anyone who beats me would do so in most cases no matter what I shot or even what they shot. Good luck to them.
I just enjoy using timber, it feels right for me and at the end of the day I still have fun. I plan to shoot much more with timbers at AA as possible, that way when Icome up against trad shooters at least I will not embarass myself too much. I am even endeavouring to get an ELB and start competing at AA with timbers. Should be a hoot and I really do not think there will be much difference in my scores as long as I tune my arrows as you taught/have advised us and for which I am beholden to you and others.
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
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Mick Smith
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
Kevin
I too would continue to use wooden arrows despite what happens with the rules. I shot cedar arrows at the AA state clout championships last year and I didn't feel too disadvantaged. I still believe that by shooting synthetic arrows you're going to have an advantage over those who aren't shooting them, but because I'm very non-competitive, I don't particularly care. Like you, I'm also more than happy to beat my previous PBs.
Mick
I too would continue to use wooden arrows despite what happens with the rules. I shot cedar arrows at the AA state clout championships last year and I didn't feel too disadvantaged. I still believe that by shooting synthetic arrows you're going to have an advantage over those who aren't shooting them, but because I'm very non-competitive, I don't particularly care. Like you, I'm also more than happy to beat my previous PBs.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.