Indoor Traditional Archery Championship

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longbow steve · #1 Post by **longbow steve** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 11:04 am

Hey guys, how about forming teams for the State/National indoor?
As it is an event that conditions are the same at different venues and is also updated online as the event happens it could be fun.

My suggestion is teams of 2, the winningest duo will receive a small prize such as an Ozbow belt buckle each( subject to availability).
If any one is interested post now or forever hold your peace.

Steve

Mick Smith · #2 Post by **Mick Smith** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 1:46 pm

I think you summed up the day nicely Gav.

A very enjoyable day indeed. I'm looking forward to next year.

Well done the 'Wildwood' boys. Huzzah!!!

A lot of people might think that clout shooting is some obscure branch of archery with very little in common with other archery events, but they would be wrong. Clout shooting requires a very disiplined mind and a very consistant and correct technique, not to be applied for just a couple of hours, but essentially for the entire day. One bad round will decide who wins and who loses in most cases.

A national indoor traditional archery championship? The idea certainly has some merit. Being indoors, it would eliminate different climatic conditions as being a factor, making conditions more favourable to one competitor over another.

If the ranges were exactly the same and the targets exactly the same, the only differences would be on how the actual event is executed. For an example, it wouldn't be exactly fair if one competitor shot all day and only posted his/her best results for that day. It probably goes without saying that we would have to have a series of 'mini' events held under strict supervision to ensure all conditions were as close to identical as possible.

I would suggest we make the distance 18 metres, as this is the maximum indoor range that we have availble in this part of the country to my knowledge. The targets could be standard F.I.T.A. targets, as these targets are easily available.

To eliminate the normal fluctuations of performance that we must all suffer, I suggest a fairly lengthy series of 6 arrow rounds, perhaps as many as 12 rounds for any one event.

I'm certainly interested to hear anyone else's views and suggestions on this matter as well.

The results could be posted on Ozbow in a thread dedicated to this event.

Good thinking Steve!!

Mick

GrahameA · #3 Post by **GrahameA** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:00 pm

Mick

The AA Nationals are shot at mutiple locations on the same weekend - and there is a push to go International. Effectively the State Titles and the National Titles are shot concurrently.

Read all about it:

http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=17456

longbow steve · #4 Post by **longbow steve** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:16 pm

Would you join a team Grahame A? South QLD needs you

White Hawk · #5 Post by **White Hawk** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:16 pm

Maybe the way to start is to just get a few trad shooters to the existing AA events to try it out and see the format it is presented in and later if interest increases we could have a trad indoor titles that works on the same principle, that way it doesn't matter what state your in you can compete in your respective state, oh i can see some serious interstate sledging going on! AND perfect for winter! Results from all states could be posted on ozbow like Mick suggested....

I would even like to see seminars introduced in some way, things like, tillering a bow, cresting arrows, theory of point of aim, basics of instinctive shooting, crafting footed arrows, the list goes on and on. There are plenty of talented folks that might be so kind as to impart some of their knowledge to those who wish to learn.

just some thoughts

Gav

longbow steve · #6 Post by **longbow steve** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 3:21 pm

Gav there will be about 10 L/bows at NSW, not all of them will be interested in this but between those that are on this site we may be able to get a few teams to start??? The highest score of teams from this site wins the BucKles or whatever, I will put up the funds for the prizes. Steve

Mick Smith · #7 Post by **Mick Smith** » Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:27 pm

Grahame

It's interesting to see that the AA nationals are a team event. The teams are made up of three people which must include one member of the opposite gender. I don't see many benefits in this approach.

I envisioned an individual event, in which one person would eventually be awarded as being the 'National Champion' within their category.

It wouldn't be hard to ensure that all competitors abided by the rules. We could do this by ensuring that events were held on specific days at multiple specific locations, where the other competitors could act as scorers, etc. It might even be better to have a series of events where the results would slowly emerge over a period of time, adding to the suspence and fun.

I'd like to see the full gambit of categories available, such as men's open, women's open, junior, master's and veteran's and all of these further broken up into equipment categories of longbow, barebow recurve, and horsebow. It wouldn't be hard to do and it would add to the fun.

Steve

I reckon a good trophy would be one of Steve Wallace's beautiful handcrafted arrows. Steve is somehow able to print names, etc on his arrows. I can't think of a better or more fitting trophy for a traditional archer than a beautiful arrow marked "Men's Open - Australian Traditional Archery - National Indoor Champion", or something like that. The arrow could be presented just by itself, or it could be mounted on a plaque of some sort. Competitors could pay an entry fee of say, $10 and this money could be used to buy the trophies. Perhaps we might even find a sponser.

These a just a few of my thoughts on how it could be done. They're just suggestions. I certainly don't hold any expectations of being a contender for any prizes, unfortunately.

Mick

longbow steve · #8 Post by **longbow steve** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 8:23 am

Hi Mick, The Arrow trophy sounds good, Would you have a photo of Steve Wallace' work by chance?
The teams in the national indoor is secondary to the event and only caters for recurve and C@#$%%nd, it is an individual event otherwise.
Steve

GrahameA · #9 Post by **GrahameA** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 9:59 am

Hi Mick

Some more info for you which should explain all (was that the sound of flying pigs):

http://www.archery.org.au/scripts/cgiip ... geId=10536

There are individuals.

Some thought to ponder;

What divisons - ie longbow only?
What about Barebow recurve?
FITA Bows ok?
AA rules or Wood Arrows only?
etc.

No difficulties as long as everyone knows.

Mick Smith · #10 Post by **Mick Smith** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 3:33 pm

Steve

There's a photo of some of Steve Wallace's arrows at the bottom of this post (they're broken ones, but it's the only photo I can find). They are surprisingly affordable too, considering the work that's gone into them.

Grahame

Yes mate, the rules would have to be widely known.

Personally, I think I'd make it for all traditional bows, perhaps with the exception of F.I.T.A. bows with sights (these people have plenty of opportunities to compete at which ever level they like), so that's longbows, barebow recurves (shot off the shelf), and horsebows (I think it's about time they got their own division too). I'd also go for wooden arrows only, but these are just my personal thoughts on the subject. It's not up to me to make up the rules. I'm just putting forward ideas.

The thing that gets me, is the fact that we could put a fair dinkum national competition together without much drama or organising. I can't see any reason why it couldn't start it in the near future, at least in some form. The rules and way we do things could be altered for the following event if they are found to be deficient in any way. It wouldn't be like as if we were shooting (or playing) for sheepstations or anything. It could be just a bit of fun for everyone.

Mick

Jimmy Alexander · #11 Post by **Jimmy Alexander** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:19 pm

Great photo

Lochmoy · #12 Post by **Lochmoy** » Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:45 pm

I like this discussion. Trad championship across the country. It's got merit and I was thinking only small beans in Victoria. I like the idea of names of teams and badges etc.

And Mick you're exploiting the worst archery day of my life again with my broken beauties!!!

GrahameA · #13 Post by **GrahameA** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:41 am

Hi Mick

so that's longbows, barebow recurves (shot off the shelf),

In AA comp - Barebow Recurves are shot of a rest and you can use buttons.

IMHO I would not get hung up about - it is a philsophical stance of being inclusive rather than exclusive. At the moment it would seem more appropriate to go with the rules, etc., that exist. The only stipulation being Wood Arrows.

Let the KISS Principle apply.

Mick Smith · #14 Post by **Mick Smith** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:19 pm

Hi Grahame

I vote we call this event the "Ozbow National Traditional Indoor Championships" and as such, it would be only fitting that an administrator of Ozbow make the final decisions and the rules. I believe you would be the best suited for this job due to the fact that you've enjoyed a long association with target archery in it's many forms, not to mention the fact that you're held in high regard by all Ozbow members.

KISS is good.

Mick

Mick Smith · #15 Post by **Mick Smith** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 8:26 pm

Sorry about that Grahame, I just couldn't resist.

Seriously though, I have complete confidence in you to do a great job, if you choose to take it on.

Maybe it's about time we started a new thread devoted to this subject.

Mick

GrahameA · #16 Post by **GrahameA** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:11 am

Hi Mick

That's okay. I don't mind especially this year as we will go with the AA rules overall. However I suggest we ask everyone to shoot Wood Arrows with feather fletching - hey, this supposed to be Trad.

I will post a link to the AA rules down below.

Essentially there are two divisions; Longbow and Barebow Recurve.

Longbows are as defined by AA. Everything else will be Barebow Recurve.

What we will need to do at this end is get all those who intend to enter to let us know and after the event we can post the the scores.

The only problem that I can see is that not everyone is a member of AA and they need AA membership to compete. That they can resolve themselves.

These are the equipment rules:
http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/Chapter8.pdf

These are the indoor rules:
http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/chapter10.pdf

And just in case the Competition Regulations :
http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/chapter7.pdf

And this is a link to the AA Rules page.

And remember don't touch the arrows until everything has been scored, and add up the results correctly (otherwise Clare will not be happy )

So, that is it.

Mick Smith · #17 Post by **Mick Smith** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 2:15 pm

Grahame

You'll make an excellent official.

I read through all the links you provided. Admittedly, I'm an impatient reader, so I might have missed some points. It's probably all in the rules, but I have a few questions anyway.

My concerns are about how the actual shooting will take place. We will probably have some members wishing to participate who live in rural areas and don't have access to official shooting ranges. If they set up some targets in the hay shed, for example, would they be allowed to enter? Of course the problem may be, that without any supervision or judges present, can we accept their scores as being valid? Perhaps we could stipulate that all scores need to be verified by at least one other competitor, or something along those lines.

I can imagine some competitors who might commence this event, but after a poor start or a poor round, they might then decide to "scrap" that particular attempt and start afresh. They might keep doing this until they manage to shoot one really good score, yet on the other hand, we might have another competitor who only has the one chance to get it right because he/she is being closely supervised. How do you see this sort of thing effecting the event?

I think everything else is very straight forward. Perhaps you could post a score sheet with everyone's name on it who has expressed a desire to compete. The score sheet could be updated as individual members post their results on that thread. We would need to have a specific time period in which the actual shooting was to take place, say one month or so (this would allow most people the time to make it to an indoor range). Highest score at the end of the period will be deemed the champion.

I know you want to retain the K.I.S.S. principal, but how would we go if we also had some team events. Competitors could compete individually as well as in say, 3 people teams. It could add a little spice to the proceedings. Maybe we could incorporate this in a later comp if this one is successful.

I reckon this could end up being a lot of fun.

Mick

robbbo · #18 Post by **robbbo** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:18 pm

Mick,Steve and Grahame,
I have enjoyed following this thread and would be interested in particapating once things are sorted,I shoot both longbow and recurve,both barebow and am loking forward to hearing more on this.I also can speak to the owner of my club at Launching Place as I am sure we would be able to make use of his indoor range.
Robbbo
ps I am more than happy to help get things going up our way if needed

GrahameA · #19 Post by **GrahameA** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 8:01 pm

Hi Mick

You'll make an excellent official. Wink

Yes, I can feel the power going to my head already

I read through all the links you provided. Admittedly, I'm an impatient reader, so I might have missed some points. It's probably all in the rules, but I have a few questions anyway. Smile

My concerns are about how the actual shooting will take place. We will probably have some members wishing to participate who live in rural areas and don't have access to official shooting ranges. If they set up some targets in the hay shed, for example, would they be allowed to enter?

Not into the AA evenet as it is held at specified locations throughout Australia and it comes with all the Official judging etc. In my case it is sunny and cold Toowoomba.

Of course the problem may be, that without any supervision or judges present, can we accept their scores as being valid?

We could or we could say that they must be shot on the those sites where the event is occuring. Remeber this is seperate from AA - we are just piggbacking because we have a few members who are members of AA.

Perhaps we could stipulate that all scores need to be verified by at least one other competitor, or something along those lines.

I am of the opinion that if we were to go that way we need to go with the integrity of our fellow members. Personally I would be happy if a few people got together and shot a few targets and then submitted their scores - how does everyone else feel. After all, all you are likely to get is your name in lights on this site.

I can imagine some competitors who might commence this event, but after a poor start or a poor round, they might then decide to "scrap" that particular attempt and start afresh. They might keep doing this until they manage to shoot one really good score, yet on the other hand, we might have another competitor who only has the one chance to get it right because he/she is being closely supervised. How do you see this sort of thing effecting the event?

My initial response is that I trust our members. After all it is only yourself you are lying to.

I think everything else is very straight forward. Perhaps you could post a score sheet with everyone's name on it who has expressed a desire to compete. The score sheet could be updated as individual members post their results on that thread. We would need to have a specific time period in which the actual shooting was to take place, say one month or so (this would allow most people the time to make it to an indoor range). Highest score at the end of the period will be deemed the champion.

Yep not a problem. However the date of the shoot is July 28th and 29th 2007. Other dates are not acceptable. Scores need to be in by, say, 4pm on July 29th.

I know you want to retain the K.I.S.S. principal, but how would we go if we also had some team events. Competitors could compete individually as well as in say, 3 people teams. It could add a little spice to the proceedings. Maybe we could incorporate this in a later comp if this one is successful.

No reason why not.

I reckon this could end up being a lot of fun. Cool

Well if nothing else it will get a few people interested.

Better read this:-

http://www.archery.org.au/scripts/cgiip ... geid=10381

Last years results:

http://www.archery-forum.com/indoor/ful ... round1.php

How is that for now?

bentstick · #20 Post by **bentstick** » Fri Jun 29, 2007 9:00 pm

Shot nationals indoor last year got second i am not in aa now but if you can have a comp through ozbow count me in

Mick Smith · #21 Post by **Mick Smith** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:38 am

Thanks Grahame, it now looks like this event will be a 'goer'.

Now all we need to do, is to let as many people know about it as possible.

Mick

jcm · #22 Post by **jcm** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 7:40 pm

Gentlemen ,
Put me down for a sponsorship place.
Let me know what you require
Jcm

Jimmy Alexander · #23 Post by **Jimmy Alexander** » Sun Jul 01, 2007 8:36 pm

Hell yeah im in

longbow steve · #24 Post by **longbow steve** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:41 am

Hi Guys, sorry for my absence, been off work with the flu.
Glad to see Mick and Grahame get stuck into this. I feel that if folks cant enter the AA indoor event or cant get to an indoor venue they can do the shoot outdoors??? They would be at a disadvantage wouldnt they??
Maybe a rule that it has to be done with more than one witness, 6 arrow practice or by the rules above mentioned and then straight into it.
Steve

GrahameA · #25 Post by **GrahameA** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 9:31 am

Hi Steve

If you shoot outdoors you get an automatic handicap of the wind plus the sun in your eyes not to mention the dust.

MaylandL · #26 Post by **MaylandL** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 11:45 am

G'day

Was raining on the weekend so I decided to have a practice at the local indoor range at Black Stump Archery with the Grozer Horn Avarian. Put some arrows in a 40cm and a bugeyes for about an hour. Initially all over the place.

Took a short break...then put an arrow in the blue. Took a deep breath, focussed on the gold, arrow in peripheral vision, concentrate, breath, draw, relax, follow through.

Went to the bug eyes and did the same...

Now all I got to work on is getting that same focus, form and technique consistently

Not going in the national indoors but any chance of having a "postal" event...say 10 rounds at a 40cm target and then posting results on ozbow?

Happy shooting

longbow steve · #27 Post by **longbow steve** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:02 pm

Nice shooting Mayland, I find its hard just shooting 3 arrow ends trying to maintain that focus. Do you instinctively shoot your horse bows? Do you have an anchor point? Steve

MaylandL · #28 Post by **MaylandL** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:25 pm

longbow steve wrote:...you instinctively shoot your horse bows? Do you have an anchor point? Steve

G'day Steve

I use Byron Ferguson's Become the Arrow shooting technique which is very similar to Howard Hill's split vision method. Its a variant of gap shooting.

I use my middle finger to anchor on my canine tooth and my thumb just behind the jaw underneath the ear.

Happy shooting

GrahameA · #29 Post by **GrahameA** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:24 pm

Good Evening All

Take Note.

Had a chat with Jeff today and we made the decision that Ozbow will collate the score and will post a listing of what everybody who nominates score.

There have been offers of sponsorship from a number of people including John McDonald at AMSO 128 and Gavin and Leigh at Wildwood. Thank you very much but we will decline your kind offer. Perhaps next year when things are more organised.

Points to Note

1. The originating event is the Archery Australia National Indoors. We encourage all AA member to get along to the event and shoot it if possible.

Here is the link for it:
http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=17456

2. Ozbow is willing to collate scores shot on weekend of 28/29 July 2007 for Ozbow members. There are no prizes other than seeing how you compare with your fellow Ozbow members and bragging rights.

3. For those who are unable to attend the event at an RGB you can submit scores shot at your local club as long as they are shot in accordance with AA rules. Read the rules.

These are the indoor rules:
http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/chapter10.pdf

These are the Competition Regulations :
http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/chapter7.pdf

4. This is Traditional Archery so for the scores submitted the will need to shot as either Longbow or Barebow Rcurve. Read the AA rules as to what you can use. It would be good to use wood arrows however, the AA rules allow the use of other materials.

These are the equipment rules:
http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/Chapter8.pdf

For those who are unable to make it to the venue in their RGB then we will accept scores shot at an AA Club or any other club. But you will need to shoot them and comply with the rules. Plus, it would be good if they were shot in the company of other archers who can verify your score.

If you are unable to get to a club and want to enter send me a pm.

5. You are shooting a FITA I Indoor round.

30 arrows on a 40cm face 10 ring scoring.

You need to shoot this round four (4) times.

The first 60 arrows comprise round 1 and the second 60 arrows comprise round 2. If you want more information:- http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/indoormanual.pdf.

Note: You are responsible for getting your own target faces and this event is usually shot in 3 arrow ends so as to minimise arrows being smashed.

6. You need to send me a pm if you want to be on the list.

I need to know where you will be shooting, what you will be using and if you are shooting as part of a team.

Scores need to be sent by pm by Midday 30th July - that allows for those who have to travel.

I will start a seperate thread for the nominations and results.
http://www.ozbow.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=5245

Any questions, post them on the this thread.

Any complaints send to Mick Smith.

Lochmoy · #30 Post by **Lochmoy** » Mon Jul 02, 2007 8:23 pm

Well done Grahame for taking the bull by the horns. This is just the sought of then Trad. needs. Not a problem with the sponsorhip but anytime just let us know.

Goodluck with it all.

Love the "all complaints to Mick Smith" and absolute gem!

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