An afternoon of archery

Shoots, gatherings, events and other happenings. Again, feel free to post appropriately.

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Coach

#31 Post by Coach » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:35 pm

matt_d wrote:
I just want to add that before this event took place all equipment and armour was thoroughly inspected for safety according to SCA regulations, and the activity was insured and run under strict supervision.

Although a little uncommon, it is still just another branch of traditional archery, and as this is a TRADITIONAL ARCHERY FORUM it is a bloody shame that we can't post information relating to these type of events without it being censored in such a farcical way.

Matt
Matt ,, I have a question ,,,, were your EYES inspected/covered up ?
Were they covered by your safety Regs ? Were your Eyes insured ? :roll: Not that it matters ,, no amount of money would compenaste me for the loss of an eye !!

This activity is bloody stupid IMO ,, fancy shooting each other with arrows :roll:

Yeah sure ,, this is a Traditional Archery Forum as you so loudly put it ,, but I dont recall seeing anywhere that these practises/game were part of Taditional Archery ,, except in times of war . Lets remember ,, the bow was invented to KILL things !
I too have a forum , and if you put this garbage on my forum , I would censor it as well .

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Len
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#32 Post by Len » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:07 pm

I'm not saying I'm for or against but in answer to coachs question the eyes are covered and protected by a visor.
Hmmmmmmm.............

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matt_d
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#33 Post by matt_d » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:08 pm

Matt[/quote]

Matt ,, I have a question ,,,, were your EYES inspected/covered up ?
Were they covered by your safety Regs ? Were your Eyes insured ? :roll: Not that it matters ,, no amount of money would compenaste me for the loss of an eye !!

This activity is bloody stupid IMO ,, fancy shooting each other with arrows :roll:

Yeah sure ,, this is a Traditional Archery Forum as you so loudly put it ,, but I dont recall seeing anywhere that these practises/game were part of Taditional Archery ,, except in times of war . Lets remember ,, the bow was invented to KILL things !
I too have a forum , and if you put this garbage on my forum , I would censor it as well .[/quote]

Coach,

I don't know what my eyes have to do with anything as it was only regular SCA members covered head to toe (including face). No, not any amount of money could compensate you for the loss of an eye, and this could also happen at any archery event. You've taken my comment about insurance way out of context, as it was meant to imply that it was properly run and not just a bunch of people who decided to go down to the park and shoot arrows at one another.

I think your point contracted itself regarding it not being a form of traditional archery, and then going on to say it was done in times of war and the bow was first invented to "kill things". It is a reenactment of what traditional archery was all about!

I can see your point of view and respect your opinion, so how about you respect mine and not belittle what I have to say and imply that my opinion is any less valid than your own.

Sorry if anything I said was out of line, but I wasn't expecting such a hostile response.

Matt

Coach

#34 Post by Coach » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:12 pm

Len wrote:I'm not saying I'm for or against but in answer to coachs question the eyes are covered and protected by a visor.
OK ,, fair enough , But would you let me shoot an arrow at you and really feel safe ? 8) I think it is a silly practise ..... bad enough having iresponsible archers/hunters shooting kangaroos etc ,, without the public seeing us shoot at each other . :roll:

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#35 Post by jfruitcake » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:57 am

Just a question do the people complaining on here realize that most of us are actually historical re-enactors and that archery is only part of the myriad of events we partake in. The event was a re-enacting event hence the period clothing most of us were wearing. We are all members of the Australian Living History Foundation, or the SCA and rules for safe combat are very strictly adhered to. We always have archery as parts of tournaments they often also include armed combat with swords and spears, as well as jousting. The arrows used in combat archery have blunt rubber tips and are all checked before anyone enters the field.

I am sure that a number of archers on here pratice hunting of animals which I find abhorrent but I would not think to criticise their choice of hobby, so I do not see why they should choose to criticise ours. We enjoy taking part in traditional archery events as the children are not yet 16 and able to partake in armed combat and I think it is great to get them away from the computer and TV for a few hours and in the open air. It would be a pity to have small minded people spoil that.
Michelle, John & 3 three getting bloody big rugrats

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#36 Post by GrahameA » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:37 am

Without Prefudice and only a comment.

For the SCA - Combat Archery is practised under a set of very strict condition and the equipment used is similary maufactured to a set of strict standards.

IMHO it is probably safer than Paintball.

If people wish to discuss, etc. without issues there is is the Lochac Archers Forum and the Lochac Archers list (The forum is linked to the list).

http://www.sca.org.au/archers/forum/
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Mick Smith
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#37 Post by Mick Smith » Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:08 pm

I do recall some threads a while back. From what I can recall of them, there was quite a bit of interested generated by a few Ozbow members by subject matter, which I believe was “combat archery”. Then after a considerable period, Stickbow Hunter made it known in a post on one of the threads that he was unimpressed with this activity, for various reasons. There was some debate on this issue, both for and against, mainly against. I didn’t realise this subject matter was then made totally prohibited. Were these threads deleted? I don’t recall any announcement from administration that this subject was henceforth taboo on Ozbow.

Personally, I’m not at all interested in this activity. Even though I attended the ‘Afternoon of Archery’ event and participated in all the usual archery events, I simply wasn’t interested in participating in shooting at people. The group hosting the shoot was the Melbourne SCA and they decided they would like to provide a display of their activities between events. I only took a photograph because I thought some Ozbow members might be mildly interested. I believe it was done in a safe manner, but then again, I wasn’t really watching. It's just not 'my cup of tea'. By the same token, I can't really see anything wrong with it either, so long as impressionable young people are made to understand that this sort of thing should never be tried at home.

What does strike me as odd though, is the heavy handed attitude taken by Stickbow Hunter on this occasion. To me, this whole incident smacks of autocracy. Many of our newer members would have no knowledge of previous goings on with this subject. They must have been wondering what they did to deserve that sort of harsh response.

I was under the impression that we at Ozbow always advised a member by PM when his/her post was to be modified, either before or after the event. How can members write posts without fear that they will be altered afterwards without them knowing, possibly changing the whole gist of their post and possibly even making them appear foolish? I didn’t receive any notification that one of my posts on this thread was modified, until I just happened to have a look at it and I don’t think this is acceptable.

Perhaps a list of taboo Ozbow subjects should be laid down somewhere that’s readily available to all members, so unwitting members don’t have to run the risk of public censure by administration in the future.

Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.

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#38 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:11 pm

G’day jfruitcake,

Yes, this event (shooting arrows at one another) is an SCA activity so what’s the problem with restricting its promotion to say a re-enators forum rather than on here. Ozbow is a Traditional BOWHUNTING and Archery forum not a re-enacters forum.

Gav & Leigh have put a lot of hard work into organizing a number of archery shoots in Victoria which include SCA people (clubs?) and I have no problems with the promotion, reporting and the showing of photos of these events with the EXCEPTION of when arrows are being shot at people. Surely it isn’t too much to ask you and other members to respect my decision regarding this one activity.

There are very few things that aren’t allowed to be discussed on Ozbow and this subject has in fact already been discussed – do a search and you may find it enlightening.

Having said this, there are a few things that I don’t wish for Ozbow to promote and shooting arrows at one another is one of them (yes I know all the safety precautions the SCA put in place).

Obviously you have no understanding of what real hunting is about or you would never use the term hobby to describe it. For many it is a way to feed their family, a way to help eradicate feral pests from our environment, a way to be one with the bush – a way of life. I for one would never call it a hobby or a sport, rather a part of who I am – a Bowhunter and a Conservationist.

Grahame,

As I have stated previously on these forums, I view paintball in a similar manner to that of shooting arrows at another person.

Mick Smith,

I in fact started a discussion thread in relation to shooting arrows at another person and no, there was no announcement from administration that this subject was henceforth taboo on Ozbow. It was only when the promotion of this matter up came again I decided to take the action that I did.
What does strike me as odd though, is the heavy handed attitude taken by Stickbow Hunter on this occasion. To me, this whole incident smacks of autocracy. Many of our newer members would have no knowledge of previous goings on with this subject. They must have been wondering what they did to deserve that sort of harsh response.
Harsh response? I made an announcement and made a polite request of the members, and a reason for such request. I fail to see it as a harsh response.
I was under the impression that we at Ozbow always advised a member by PM when his/her post was to be modified, either before or after the event. How can members write posts without fear that they will be altered afterwards without them knowing, possibly changing the whole gist of their post and possibly even making them appear foolish? I didn’t receive any notification that one of my posts on this thread was modified, until I just happened to have a look at it and I don’t think this is acceptable.
I don’t believe the gist of any post was changed or anyone was made to look foolish. Perhaps you are looking too hard to find fault in this instance?

No, you didn’t receive a PM saying your post was edited, nor did the authors of the other posts that were edited. I simply decided to let them know via the post I made, naming no names and at the same time publicly announcing that I didn’t wish for Ozbow to be seen as promoting the shooting of arrows at another person.

Most times when posts or threads are deleted or edited the authors receive a PM but I felt the above method was suffice in this instance. Each instance is/will be dealt with in the manner Admin feels is appropriate at the time and can’t guarantee that it will please everyone all of the time. We only try to do what we feel is best for Ozbow and the members.

Jeff

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Mick Smith
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#39 Post by Mick Smith » Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:44 pm

Jeff

Back in the days when I was a moderator on this site, I had call to contact a few members regarding their posts. Without fail I would always contact the member first to explain exactly what was going on. Nine times out of ten, the member themselves would edit their own post. I simply call it "good manners".

Regarding the changing of my recent post on this thread, no you haven't changed the gist of what I was trying to say and no I wasn't looking too hard to find fault in this instance. I was simply wanting to make the point that it could happen, either intentionally or unintentionally.

matt_d certainly considered the response he received as harsh, or as he put it, "hostile". I believe your response was harsh when compared to how harmonious it could have been, had you been more concerned about offending members.

I still can't see anything that has been said, could in any way be seen as promoting shooting arrows at other people. Yes, it was spoken of, but it certainly wasn't actually "promoted" in any way.

I don't think anyone will ever achieve anything by burying their head in the sand. By all means, put forward your opinion on the subject, but I don't think you have achieved anything with the use of the delete button in this case. We have a lot of new members who are probably wondering "what's going on here", and they will never know unless it is discussed openly and logically.

You have very strong views on the subject. You also have complete control of the Ozbow delete button. Have you discussed this issue with the other admin and moderators? Is your view a balanced and logical point of view? You tend to see things only in black and white sometimes. I'm not making a personal attack on you here, at least not intentionally. You have many great attributes, but sometimes we can all get a little 'one-eyed' about any particular subject. I know I often do.

There are many people who originally got into archery through the various re-enactment groups. Many of these people have developed of love of archery for it's own sake. Where does all this leave these people? I thought it was a part of our mandate to promote traditional archery, yet what has happen here recently has probably turned many promising future traditional archers away from archery. I believe we have enough division in archery already without creating more divisions.

I say all this without any particular interesting in combat archery, my only concern is with the future of archery in Australia and how best to promote it in general. I'm not saying we should promote 'combat archery'. I'm just saying we should be more tolerant of others generally.

Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.

Coach

#40 Post by Coach » Wed Jun 20, 2007 5:07 pm

Mick said:
yet what has happen here recently has probably turned many promising future traditional archers away from archery.
Thats a bit out there isn't it Mick :shock: If what has been said here turns someone off the sport of Archery ,, they couldn't have been too interested in the first place IMO .
I really cant see a problem with Stickbows request to not post things about people shooting one another :?
I reckon you all should get out Hunting more :wink: :lol:

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#41 Post by erron » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:14 pm

For various reasons – health/business/family/personal etc. – I’ve been out of the loop on here for a long, long time. With that caveat, and the implied plea to cut me some slack for issues I’m not entirely across, I’d like to make a couple of observations:

1. Running a site like this is time-consuming, and at times very stressful. At the time I handed it over to Jeff & Grahame, I breathed a huge sigh of relief. I am always mindful of their input in time and energy.

2. It is sometimes very difficult to write every person whose post you wish to remove or edit. These admin and moderator positions are not paid, but voluntary, and we all have family and other commitments that come first.

Having said that, I would like to say to you, Jeff, as a friend, that your posts on this thread did come across as a bit ‘tetchy’. Perhaps you are tired of covering old ground on issues like this. I remember what it’s like, and understand. But I DO feel a touch more diplomacy here would have carried your point better.

Another point I want to make is that people like Mick Smith are also essential to a site like this, and whether I agree with him or not on any particular subject, I’d hate to see folk like him leave because they felt in any way disrespected.

In closing I’d like to say that, in my experience, the type of person attracted to Traditional Archery is inclined to be passionate and opinionated (myself especially) so we all need to be mindful of each others’ feelings on subjects like this, and seek common ground.

Cheers all,

Erron
Last edited by erron on Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mick Smith
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#42 Post by Mick Smith » Wed Jun 20, 2007 6:16 pm

G'day Coach

It might sound "a bit out there" I suppose, but just last Saturday I witnessed more than a few budding archers competing in their very first competition. Contestants were advised to refer to Ozbow if they were interested in getting more involved in archery.I can imagine some of them logging onto Ozbow to see how the event was recorded, only to find all this negitivity. If one of them was teetering on becoming more involved in archery after their fun weekend, its possible they could be become disenfranchised with what they see. I think they would certainly be "put off" to a certain extent.

Believe me mate, I'd much rather be out there hunting too. :wink:

Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.

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#43 Post by Jimmy Alexander » Wed Jun 20, 2007 8:55 pm

Holy ****, just got back from the city and logged on.

Ah well i had a ball and its not my forum so i wont talk about it.
Good meeting a few people and cant wait for the next one. Well done Mick for taking out the wand event, Abaci for the miraculous pigeon shot through the handle hole, and thanks to everbody involved for putting it on, special thanks to Lee from wildwood and Sir John for taking me under his wing in the early rounds.

Cant wait for the next one.
Cheers Jimmy
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Chris
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#44 Post by Chris » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:14 pm

Good meeting a few people and cant wait for the next one. Well done Mick for taking out the wand event, Abaci for the miraculous pigeon shot through the handle hole, and thanks to everbody involved for putting it on, special thanks to Lee from wildwood and Sir John for taking me under his wing in the early rounds.
And that is what it is all about.
good to see you a ball jimmy, when are you going to show us a know knife.

Chris
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#45 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:50 pm

It appears that I have come across as being blunt but that wasn’t my intention. This issue is something that concerns me greatly and I simply wanted to halt its discussion in this thread immediately.

What I read about and saw in a number of these posts was the shooting of arrows at people – an announcement that this event was going to take place, a photo of this event and comments to the effect of how great it was to hit one of the people between the eyes with an arrow etc. To me this is promoting the activity.

I have spent all my Bowhunting life -25 plus years promoting safety when a bow and arrow is used. Every Bowhunting and Archery club I have even been in or gone to has gone to great lengths to do the same. The pointing of a bow and arrow at anyone is forbidden. Children are taught this fundamental safety issue from a very early age.

Safety, when using anything that could hurt myself or others, was taught to me from as long back as I can remember. I have taught it to my children and to others. My conscience will not let me turn a blind eye now and allow members on this site to promote the shooting of arrows at another person.

Jeff

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#46 Post by gehndo » Wed Jun 20, 2007 11:31 pm

Jeff, I understand your views - and for the record I agree - but I really think that you just acted a little too quickly here by deleting the posts and pic.
As to your comments that this is a Bowhunting forum, this is true, but the subtitle does state: "Traditional Archery & Bowhunting in Australia". And like it or not, re-enactment archery is a form of Trad Archery.
jfruitcake finds the prospect of killing obhorent, but doesn't post comments condemning hunters on the forum. Speaking as a relatively new member to Ozbow - and a not often spoken one - I think you just jumped the gun a little and let your personal beliefs make you act a little rashly.
If you didn't want to come across as blunt, then you shouldn't have deleted the post so quickly. A simple message requesting that such an event not be promoted as you didn't believe it was appropriate would have been enough. Most - if not all - members of Ozbow would have respected that.
I don't normally like confrontation, but I've been more than a little annoyed with such divisions within archery groups at the moment.

Troy

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#47 Post by jfruitcake » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:19 am

Just for the record I think the site is a great idea and lets us find out about numerous shoots that we would not have known about previously. Especially the archery as the children are too young for combat as yet. The people involved in traditional archery Leigh, Gavin, Len & Sven are all great and put up with my kids wonderfully :-)

My partner John has been involved in Re-enactment for a long long long time but I am a relative newcomber only three years. I have three children who also adore it and love to attend especially the archery events.

I actually won an event on the weekend ( sheer fluke) of course and had a great afternoon. I have already booked a motel in Dunolly and am just hoping all the children will be allowed to compete in this one.

Michelle
Michelle, John & 3 three getting bloody big rugrats

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#48 Post by Jimmy Alexander » Thu Jun 21, 2007 5:41 pm

Oh the knife. I think its floating around somewhere i cant find my thread though. Its inching foreward to completion but ive been pretty busy lately renovating an apartment in town for the missus. She doesnt want to catch the train to uni everyday :roll: So everyone has to go out of there way for her :lol:
Id probably miss her......maybe :lol:
Ill finish the knife up soon and post some pics.
Thats a promise.
Cheers Jimmy :D
Twang

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#49 Post by matt_d » Thu Jun 21, 2007 6:34 pm

Stickbow Hunter wrote:It appears that I have come across as being blunt but that wasn’t my intention. This issue is something that concerns me greatly and I simply wanted to halt its discussion in this thread immediately.

What I read about and saw in a number of these posts was the shooting of arrows at people – an announcement that this event was going to take place, a photo of this event and comments to the effect of how great it was to hit one of the people between the eyes with an arrow etc. To me this is promoting the activity.

I have spent all my Bowhunting life -25 plus years promoting safety when a bow and arrow is used. Every Bowhunting and Archery club I have even been in or gone to has gone to great lengths to do the same. The pointing of a bow and arrow at anyone is forbidden. Children are taught this fundamental safety issue from a very early age.

Safety, when using anything that could hurt myself or others, was taught to me from as long back as I can remember. I have taught it to my children and to others. My conscience will not let me turn a blind eye now and allow members on this site to promote the shooting of arrows at another person.

Jeff
Jeff,

It concerns me greatly that people can't enjoy talking about a perfectly legal, safe and fun activity without being silenced, based on the personal beliefs of one individual. However, it is your forum and I'll refrain from making any further such posts.

What has really got on my nerves though is not only did you edit my post without my knowledge but have now gone on to tell other people what I had apparently written and twisting my words to suit your own purposes!
You have no right to do that no matter who the hell you think you are!
I did not say that it was "great to hit somebody between the eyes with an arrow", but what I had implied is that I had made a great shot which I was quite proud of and would have been regardless of whether the target was human, animal or inanimate!

Dont you have any reasoning power or are you always this uncompromising? I think with the stance you are taking on this issue you are doing the sport of traditional archery far more damage than could ever happen if some do-gooding member of the public were to make complaints about what we do with ourselves in our own time.

I do agree with you 100% on the issue of safety, and have always been of the attitude that you never point a bow or any other weapon at something that you are not willing to destroy. In this instance though we are not talking about target or hunting bows, but purpose designed low poundage bows with rubber blunted arrows and full body armour. Its like comparing pointing a rifle at someone against your kids playing with a spud gun in the backyard.. Apples and oranges.

I don't know you and don't want to make personal judgements, but I hope to god you never enter politics! I think this issue has been kicked to death though and that's all I have to say about it... moving on..

Matt

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#50 Post by Jimmy Alexander » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:10 pm

Whats with the personal attacks coach. Please stay off my threads if you cant refrain from insulting. Were all archers and that involves all forms. Im a hunter and i still got out there and gave it a go, now im hooked. I'll still hunt and attend traditional events.
I guess im a pretender aswell. I think youve offended alot of people with your statements and i dont want you to delete it, i would rather people see what you think about us.


That was a good shot Matt....40m, I wish i could take a game animal at that distance :D

Everybody lets just chill and enjoy our own forms of archery. Theres no need for insults.

Jimmy
Twang

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#51 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Thu Jun 21, 2007 8:20 pm

Ok enough is enough. I did what I felt was right, I still think it was and I wouldn’t hesitate to do it again!

I can assure you that I am not the only one concerned about this issue.

What some of you don’t get is that it isn’t those adult people that do this activity that I am concerned about. No, I am concerned about the kid who may just get shot by his mate because they thought they would try doing what they saw the grown ups doing, or were allowed to do it themselves, at some re-enactors event.

I am also concerned that it won’t dawn on them to use a rubber blunt.

Don’t say it will never happen either as it could very easily happen. In fact, I believe it has already happened at some sort of re-enacting event in Queensland last year.

So, if you want to discuss shooting arrows at each other do it elsewhere, not on Ozbow!!!

I think there has been enough said on this issue so I am now locking this thread.

Jeff

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