Clout

[GrahameA]

Hi All

Clout is long range archery and is an event not commonly shot in a lot of clubs. It takes a little longer than most events and has its own small annoying problems. With a move to some new club grounds the other year a few members and myself decided we would like to shoot clout on an irreglar basis.

One of the first problems we had to overcome was the range req'd if we were to shoot the offficial distances. After some quick decision making we decide that "to hell with it" and we would shoot 100 yards initially and move into the carpark for the longer distances, etc.

The end result is a few of us dragged out the longbows and the wood arrows. The recurve shooters however really were struggling with their normal carbon arrows. Not a problem and after a quick bit of brainwashing and modification Wood Arrows were the answer.

One of our members wanted to shoot his Grozer asian recurve. Being a inventive type Tom designed and developed some high drag arrows - but they are another story.

The other interesting thing is almost everybody has reverted to shooting barebow.

Archery Australia's Clout Sheet http://www.archery.org.au/lib/pdf/cloutarchery.pdf

So now for some photos:

[AntMob]

Grahame, those photos capture the essence of clout, for sure. Your grounds look beautiful. Clout is my number one event- but I've yet to try shooting it barebow... Thanks for the link and story.

[Mick Smith]

Hi Grahame

I find clout shooting to be interesting and fun. It's generally not a common event for most people. Sure it has it's few dedicated devotees, but most traditional archers haven't had much to do with it. I believe there's a lot of mystery surrounding clout shooting for most of us. The way I look at it, it's one more way to extract maximum enjoyment and variety in my chosen recreation.

There's something very satisfying about watching your arrow sail through the air in a huge and graceful arc. It's even more satisfying to see it land very close to your target.

In your view, what is the best technique to use when clout shooting? I know some people use the maker's name on the lower limb of their bow as a reference. In the official rules link, that you have provided above, they mention the use of a marker on the ground, between the shooter and the target. As you also mentioned in your post, some people opt to shoot in a high plunging trajectory and others opt for the more direct approach. As you said, both methods have their pro's and con's. Which methods would you recommend?

Personally, I'm still very much a rank beginner, particularly in this field of archery and I'm looking for all the help I can get. I have a desire to achieve some level of efficiency in clout events, for the Leongatha shoot and the Geelong Longbow Muster events, both coming up soon in Victoria.

Mick

[Len]

Fantastic post Grahame! At Leongatha we had not done clout untill we went to the big comp down at Geelong and as Leigh said the elb was designed to shoot heavy arrows a long way(and in its hey-day did it better then any other) and as archers-renactors it was something we should be doing and he was right! We enjoyed the clout so much we now shoot it every month.At the moment we only shoot up to 120 metres but hopefully one day we will see some war-bows shooting the old mark of 240 yards with 3-4 oz battle shafts.

[Len]

Would like to add that at Leongatha when we do clout we always practice a high plunging trajectory as we think it developed from shooting arrows over the front rank of the enemy (who often carried large shields) and into the ranks following, and so dont score arrows in the target thet are under 33 degrees.

[ed]

I have enjoyed clout a couple of times too. I am not sure clout should have an angle limit though. I remember hearing about war archers shooting both high and low trajectories so that the enemies could not cover both angles with their shields. Whether it is true or not I don't know.
The SCA group does not call it clout unless it is above 45 degress, which I gather is beyond the angle for maximum distance so it effectively cuts your range. It really annoyed me as it meant at the 90m they were competing at that I had to short draw my bow and aim up at about 80 degress and take my chances with the wind.
I read somewhere that King Henry the 8ths top archers (him included) used to practice out to 300 yards.

[Len]

Hi ed
In Henry V111 days archers 21 years and over were expected to practice shooting the mark at no less then 220 yards .Your quite right about some archers aimng flat so as to bring the shields down while others shot over the top into those behind, however we feel the skill is to drop your arrow onto the target and thus introduced the degree rule.We find it stops archers with heavier bows shooting at the closer marks in a normal target style.

[GrahameA]

Hi Mick, et al.

In answer to your question. This is a piece I wrote for the club mag and Tom's article on high drag arrows and is reprinted courtesy of "Centenary Archers".

IMHO. You want your arrows to land at greater than 30deg if you want to avoid skipping plus it gives you a bigger apparent target.

If possible some sort of sight mark is handy. An O-Ring on the lower limb works fine just move it up and down as required. Or you can just take some tape along.

Remember the AA rules don't neccesarilly apply at the event you are shooting.

As for arrows I am of the opinion that arrows with a higher FOC value work better and having a bit more mass doesn't hurt either as you want them to stick in. Big fletches that stand out dont hurt - you can see the arrows easily then.

Ground markers are a 'No, No' for longbow shooters - unless you are happy to shoot with the recurve shooters. I will post a photo of mine - every now and then I play at Victorian era shooting and am amazed at how good they were. When I use a ground marker, for clout, I just align the bottom limb tip with the marker and zap. For target at the long range I use the base of my hand aligned with the marker. Ground markers and associated aiming techniques are a whole other topic.

Len - if you want to stop them shooting flat use hard ground. The arrow will then generally skip out of the target area.

I regularly shoot a fun clout at 40 yards, target is a 60 litre plastic garbage tin. To score you have to land in the Garbage Tin and blunts have to be used. It is surprisingly easy - just make yourself some flu flu's. You have to use the high angle otherwise you cannot get them in.

IMHO - the more rules you have the less the enjoyment. Probably the best set of rules ever written were those for the 18 footers when they started. "The boat is 18 feet long and the races starts at 1 o'clock."

Clout Notes
http://www.amy.id.au/arch/clout.PDF

[Mick Smith]

Len

Thanks for the tip. I'll be sure to bring a low powered bow along to Leongatha for the clout events. It would be very difficult for me to lob an arrow from my 55# bow at a target under 100 metres and have the arrow standing at an angle of more than 33 degrees. Well, unless I used flu-flus.

Grahame,

Thanks for the informative reply. I believe it's against the rules at our trad shoots to have any mark on your bow, which could help when competing in a clout event. So, that would rule out using an O ring or tape. You might happen to have a couple of nasty scratches on your bow though.

I like the rules for the 18 footers.

Mick

[Len]

Hey Mick the clout event will have one of its targets at 120 metres,once you pick your distance you stay on that target so you should be OK with the 55lber

[jape]

I guess this is old hat for most of you, but I haven't let loose a couple of hundred arrows yet! I have a bamboo-backed yeoman bow and self-knocked wooden arrows by Sven.

But today having read this thread I decided to stop worrying about the fact I have only hit a cornflakes packet twice in a month at forty metres and just aimed up at forty five degrees and let her go! It was so slow, and so, well, beautiful is strange word here but it was beautiful to watch it fly. Never really realised before that that is what arrows do, they fly.

The arrow flew almost exactly a hundred paces and amazingly landed within a couple of feet of where I sort of hoped it would. Which was good as any further would have got the shed ...

jape

[Lochmoy]

Well done Jape and can't wait for the clout as it is my favourite event though I am out of practice. We are 9 confirmed coming so far Len. What's your estimate for archers now coming to Leongatha?

[GrahameA]

Good Morning All

Mick

The normal arrow theory applies to clout arrows. The bigger they are the more they get blown around by the wind. On saturday it was a tad windy in Brisbane and you could see the ends of the arrows getting hit by the gusts as they flew towards the target. But they still looked great.

Consider this - if you were building a clout arrow. Fletches equate to drag and thus arrow range. At the same time heavy arrows travel slower than light arrows when shot from the same bow and thus have a shorter range. So would it be a better choice to have large fletches or a heavier arrow if you want to limit the arrow range and have a plummetting trajectory? Footing shafts, heavy timbers and heavy points can help to get that total arrow mass up.

Note - if you are trying to spot your fall of shot small fletches are diffcult to see.

It is very handy when you first shooting to have a spotter to call the fall of shot (arrow). In the olde days the spotter would use a flag to indicate where the arrow fell in relation to the target. That still works as does a two-way. Just make certain that spotter is somewhere safe when arrows are being shot.

To range yourself in I find it is easier to drop short and slowly increase the angle until I have the correct range. (People who use prisms and mirrors probably have another process.)

Jape

Yes, it really does look beautiful. I have watched more than a few from the side of the range and they just look so graceful. If you have trad' mediaval arrows then they spin like crazy due to the narural curl of the feathers and pressure difference between the two side of the feather.

Plus the line of archers with their bows back is evocative of times gone past.

What is impressive is when you have a few archers shooting together - you can almost visualise the rain of arrows as they arc through the sky.

[Len]

Wait till you see the clout event at Mossvale park, Leongatha,30 + archers against a backdrop of English oaks, poplars, elms etc. Should look fantastic so dont forget your cameras !

[Stickbow Hunter]

The attached photo isn't of clout shooting but I thought it may interest some of you.

It is some of the participants at one of the Australian Longbow Musters back in the 1990's. They were shooting in the 185 yard elk shot - Howard Hill shot an elk at 185 yards.

The shower of arrows used to look impressive!!!

Jeff

[FORRO]

Jeff
They were the good old days when it was just LONGBOWS and
I enjoyed that long bow muster
thankes Jeff
Keith