NATIONAL TRADITIONAL SHOOT for 2007

[Robert]

Continuing on from previous topics :-
(Trad Comp. Geelong -
http://www.ozbow.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=3351
and National Traditional Shoot -
http://www.ozbow.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2136)

Two statements were made, QUOTE

Two of the biggest Trad shoots in the country, 'The Gathering' in NSW and 'The Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster' in QLD take place on the same weekend. Disappointing to see IMO.

What is solution do you have to solve the clashing dates ?

Here is a solution

Have State Trad Shoots on this weekend (June )

Have a National Traditional Shoot at Easter

The question is where to have it
and who is to host it ?

I have a few ideas what are yours?

[danceswithdingoes]

great idea, Newcastle is central to both states TAA may choose to back it. Easters is not good as it clashes with AA, ABA and Nth Albert Rendevous, 2nd October is a long weekend?

[Robert]

NSW and QLD aren't the only states in this country and
how many Traditional Archers are in AA and ABA?

[danceswithdingoes]

NSW and QLD aren't the only states in this country and
how many Traditional Archers are in AA and ABA?

I was refering to it being central to QLD and Vic, and AA/ABA has a huge potential if we dont keep asking them to choose.

[Robert]

To be central -
From Cairns to Melbourne to Adelaide
Toowoomba would be equal traveling distances

[Stickbow Hunter]

Easter and the June long weekend are about the only two national holidays that would suit this kind of event. However most people will have to take holidays to attend such an event anyway because of the distances required to travel.

I also agree that the south east corner of Queensland is fairly central travel wise. I also think there could be merit is alternating between states, the eastern ones at least, for such a shoot.

One thing some may have missed is that the Gladstone shoot is called 'The AUSTRALIAN Longbow and Recurve Muster'. It was obviously named that for a reason.

I think if TAA want to host a national gathering than it is them who should speak with those who organize the Trad shoots and find out what their organizers thoughts are on matter are.

Jeff

[little arrows]

All the traditional archers I know will choose a Traditional Only event over any other sanctioned shoot regardless of the "association" they belong too.
Even though there are no long weekend in Qld in the latter part of the year we would still go to a Trad Only event if it was held in NSW or Vic - so hold it, and they will come - Geelong shoot in Sept, there is quite a few of us from Qld looking at going - we will be talking more at the North Albert Trad shoot, and as Jeff pointed out Gladstone already have an Australian shoot - it is an open shoot, so all Trad shooters are welcome.
Remember guys, you can't and won't please all of the people all of the time, but most Trad Only people are pretty easy to get on with.
sue

[Mick Smith]

Robert

I'm looking forward to seeing the Traditional Archery Shoots calendar for 2007. Since my first big shoot, just recently at Geelong I've got the bug, real bad. I really enjoyed it.

I intend to attend as many future Trad Shoots as humanly possible, even to the extent of revolving my annual holidays around attending at least of one them, with the whole family in tow.

Do we have a projected date of release of the calendar as yet, mate?

Mick

[MaylandL]

...I'm looking forward to seeing the Traditional Archery Shoots calendar for 2007. Since my first big shoot, just recently at Geelong I've got the bug, real bad. I really enjoyed it.
...
Do we have a projected date of release of the calendar as yet, mate?

I agree with you Mick. Anysia and I would love to attend one of the trad shoots next year. Like you, Anysia and I had a ball in Geelong.

[adam]

All the traditional archers I know will choose a Traditional Only event over any other sanctioned shoot regardless of the "association" they belong too.

Same here.

[Lochmoy]

OK, having just come off the back of a big weekend in Geelong I advocate a weekend in Autumn but avoid Easter as alot of people have other things happening at this time. Noone who travelled had any problems with only 2 days to do all their travelling. Somewhere East and Central would be best at least for the first one. Or we start at Gladstone or Hunter Valley as they are already huge but that one of them abandons their shoot for one year. (ouch ouch) yes I know, I've said a real bad thing but to reinvent the wheel seems a silly thing. Maybe Gladestone has the first and Hunter Valley has a scaled down version for those who simply can't make it.

In the end rotating the event between shoots that are already held might be a good thing. Rather than creating a new entity.

[perry]

Fella's Perry from Caboolture Bowmen here,I make this statement cautiously.Over the last few weeks a bloke from our club has approached 3DAAA with the idea of us starting a monthly Trad shoot in 2007 . The idea being other clubs will join in and help us develop a Traditional series.3DAAA has agreed to sanction these events.We have not got to far with any details yet but the Trad shooters we have run this past reckon its a good thing.
I stress this is still in the early stages.Speaking for myself I m keen on competition,dont give a toss about 1st 2nd 3rd or last. Just want to meet my personal goals.Us Trad shooters need to come together and stop worrying about two shoots that clash 1200kms apart . Id love to get to all the Trad shoots , cant afford that .
What do you reckon , will you attend a sunday trad shoot at a local club
While Im here the Caboolture Traditional Corrival is on the 21st / 22nd of oct,weve got a top shoot organized.Good to see everyone
regards Perry

[Mick Smith]

Perry

Could you explain in more detail, just how this proposal would work? I'm a little lost. You mention your club having a monthly trad shoot, but I can't see how this would effect or benefit other clubs, particularly clubs based in other states.

Personally, I can't see any better way of doing things, for those motivated by competition, than having a series of smaller intra-state shoots culminating perhaps in a major state tournament and then maybe even some sort of grand national shoot, where the ultimate winners would be recognized as champions in their field.

As far as I'm concerned, I too, like to shoot, just for the fun of it and to perhaps achieve some personal satisfaction from shooting as well as I know I can. I'm not into competitions for the sake of winning, but I know many others are.

I reckon the best thing about big shoots is meeting all the wonderful, colourful and eccentric people there and talking endless "drivel" about bows and gear. Checking out the items for sale at the various vendor stalls is great fun too. The whole atmosphere generated by hundreds of like minded people, doing what they enjoy the most is intoxicating.

I'm not criticizing the proposal you have outlined here, I'm just asking for further clarification.

Mick

[gary p]

Hi Mick, Gary here also from Caboolture. In our part of the world a lot of trad archers have stopped shooting the 3d game mostly through frustration, its too slow some times it takes 6 hours to shoot 30 targets ! Our idea was to put some fun back in so to keep trad people shooting arrows. What we are thinking of doing is holding a shoot every 4 to 6 weeks when the shoot calender permits , a one day shoot say 20 3d targets, running pig ect , scores from these would be tallied up at the end of the year with a trophy to the person who scores most throughout the comp. A national trad comp is awesome proposal but i think it would have to be run as a week long event , a central location chosen, given a years notice people can organize time off . have to go Gaz.

[Anna]

I reckon a regular local trad shoot has got to be a good thing....It does get really disheartening and frustrating at a regular shoot being stuck behind a few groups of compound shooters taking their time. I try and slow down by missing a lot and spending time looking for arrows, that seems to help

Hmmm, a week long national trad competition....maybe a few nearby clubs putting on a few days shooting each.....

[little arrows]

great minds think alike - count us in for sure. The more the merrier.
See you all at Caboolture, we can talk more then.....
yippeeeeee
sue

[MaylandL]

Sounds interesting. WOuld love to participate in a national shoot for 2007. Had heaps of fun shooting the 3D at Geelong.

Happy shooting

[danceswithdingoes]

In the States the biggest trad shoot is the Compton Traditional Rendezvous
http://www.comptontraditional.com/read.cfm?id=4 and is run by the Compton Trad Bowhunters, a nationwide group dedicated to the betterment of traditional archery.
It would appear we have such a group, the Traditional Archery Australia club, as yet it is a political neutral club designed to foster and promote traditional archery across the country, and looking at Les Simpson's frequent flyer miles, these boys get around
I would suggest that any hint of a national competition should be run past this organisation for its input and advice and perhaps the TAA could promote the event in return.
Ideally the event should rotate among available interstate venues such as Geelong, Newcastle, Gladstone, Caboolture, Yatala etc. I would also like to see traditional clubs adopt the 3DAAA style game for their comps as this would appear to be the most trad friendly (<30yds)

[little arrows]

There will be such discussions taking place at the Caboolture Trad shoot in a couple of weeks, as a couple of the TAA boys are coming up.
I'm sure they'll keep us posted..
sue

[Lochmoy]

I absolutely concur with what Dances with Dingos has said. We simply start somewhere. Such as the Hunter Valley and move it to Gladstone the following year. Then maybe to Geelong and so on around the country. Emphasis on 3D is good along with other events and the TAA is the logical laising body.

At some point a hard decision needs to be made to say this is it. If some don't wish to come on board or can't due to distance then so be it. They'll get their chance when it comes closer to them.

By naming something the Australian Trad. Champs where a substantial event already occurs people will come from all over. As long as the othe substantial event locations know that their turn will come soon then there will be less grief in the long run.

This is what I propose.

Trad. Nat. Champs.

2007 Hunter Valley Queens b'day I't logically central and established.
2008 Gladstone. Again an established event
2009 Geelong The event will be well and truly established by then here
2010 Maybe SA or WA?

Either way the Calendar should be worked out 3 years in advance to give people a chance to prepare and focus.

The prizes should be very particular to a Nat. Championship and the media should be alerted.

What do you all think?

[Mick Smith]

Yes, there's no doubt that the gentlemen from "Traditional Archery Australia", Rob McKenzie and Les Simpson and the other officials of the organisation should be the ones to work out the final calendar (dates, places and maybe even the types of events, within reason) for all future interclub shoots. Obviously these gentlemen will have to work in close unison with all the various local clubs concerned, but I know the future of traditional archery in this country is in good hands. I feel certain that they would also value any suggestions or input from any traditional archers, like you and me.

It's a very difficult job to try to please all the people all the time, and I realise the officials of the various local clubs are also aware of this. The simple and obvious solution is to work closely with our national body to assure the best outcome possible. We will all be the winners as a result.

Mick

[Mick Smith]

Lochmoy

It all sounds logical to me.

Why not use existing successful shoots for a rotating National Shoot, afterall the infrastructure is already there?

I'm all for a long range calendar too, the more people who can plan to coincide their annual leave, etc, to attend an event, the better it will be.

Mick

[ole_silver]

hey Mick n Lochmoy..

this is good 4 me to plan next franchise sale to enable me to stay over to get to shoots..

probably need a take down to travel with easier..

longbows can fit tubes easily



cheers

[perry]

Forgive me for being a little vague with my last post, this monthly Trad shoot idea we are working on is still in its infancy.To start wih it will be at Cabooltures grounds . In time I hope that clubs thoughout the country will coordinate with each other and a body such as TAA , 3Daaa[ I dont care so long as Traditional Archery is placed first] will develop a shoot calender similar to how the major governing bodies have.
The idea would be to use a similar format from club to club much the same as Newcastle, Caboolture and Gladstone use in there annual events.Sorry Geelong Im not familar with your format Im sure the emphasis is on fun ,skills and socializing
I would love to see regional , state and national shoots modeled on a relaxed social base for Traditional achery.Much as I like shooting 3D / Aba , If I cop one more disrespectfull or snide stick comment it wont be pretty.
Regards Perry

[Lochmoy]

Geelong is happy to comply with a format guided by the TAA. We can pretty much do anything and yes the object is fun, socialising, skill and an appreciation of the aesthetics and heritage of trad. archery.

[danceswithdingoes]

If I cop one more disrespectfull or snide stick comment it wont be pretty.

That's easy to fix, give them your longbow (without the bracer) and get them to hit a small target at 20m......they'll either convert, appreciate or not bother you again.

[perry]

Dances with Dingo;s, the only trouble with that approach is that I cant hit the small target at 20mts as often as I'd like and the compounders have one lucky shot and are definatly none the wiser.I hate that!

[Kiwikelvin]

Hi folk, Someone may just care to factor in the growing rivalry that is manifesting itself each year in the transtasman (Bledisloe Cup equivalent ) Trad shoot currently hosted NZ last weekend in January and todate at the Gladstone Muster. Been going very successfully now for three years

[Stickbow Hunter]

After reading the replies on this thread I would like to make some comments and maybe give a little history lesson which might add some insight at this point of the discussion.

In my earlier post I made the point that the Gladstone shoot was called the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’. I did this for a reason – to raise the point that this shoot is a NATIONAL Traditional shoot!!!

The ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ is not just a club Trad shoot or even a State Trad shoot; it is Australia’s NATIONAL Trad shoot!!!

IMO it certainly has the right to hold such a title because of what it represents and because of its history.

You see, the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ had a humble beginning in 1988 when the first ever ‘Australian Longbow Safari’ was held. A grand total of 30 odd shooters attended.

Due to the fact that the sanctioning body of the shoot insisted that the name be changed because they wouldn’t allow its title to have the words Australian or Safari in it, the name of the shoot was changed to ‘The Annual Longbow Muster’.

The word ‘Muster’ was chosen because it was Australian and because it meant to, get together, bring together and assemble. The purpose of the ‘Muster’ was to bring together, at one place, the Longbowmen and the Traditional Bowhunters and Archers of Australia.

A couple of years later, 1992 if my memory serves me correctly, the organizers decided that the Muster was truly a national shoot and accordingly should be known as such. Also, it was decided that it had to be open for all Longbowmen to attend, regardless to if they belonged to a certain association or not. They took the big step of going it alone and having to find independent insurance cover for the shoot, which wasn’t easy back then. However it was done and the name of the shoot got its well deserved name of ‘Australian Longbow Muster’ and was open for all to attend.

These shoots attracted many shooters each year with the largest number of shooters at a Muster being just over 180. Over the years shooters came from every State in Australia except maybe Tasmania. Each year a good number of New Zealanders travelled over for the shoot and once there was even a shooter from Europe. As you can see, it truly was a national event.

A great rivalry started between the Kiwis and Aussies each year to see who would win the Trans Tasman Cup as it was named. It was a lot of fun and this rivalry continues to this day.

While the ‘Australian Longbow Muster’ could be said to have been a national competition I think it right to say that most people came for one reason – to have a great time with like minded people. It was more like a big family reunion each year – a reunion of Traditional Bowhunters and Archers. In fact in those times the Muster was the biggest gathering of Tradtional Bowhunters and Archers in the southern hemisphere.

The idea of having a Muster was also about keeping the skills so important to Traditional Bowhunting and Archery – such as bow making and arrow making – alive so that they wouldn’t be lost. The Muster was for promoting Bowhunting as well.

I still remember the 10th Anniversary Australian Longbow Muster where the logo was this:
BOWHUNTING
-Our Heritage-
Keeping it alive at the Australian Longbow Muster 1998

Due to certain circumstances beyond the control of the organizers, 1999 was the last year the Muster would be called the ‘Australian Longbow Muster’ and held at Tiaro Queensland.

A dedicated team of people from the Gladstone Bowhunters Club decided that such a great event should not come to an end and went to work to ensure the tradition continued. They felt that to include more Traditional Bowhunters and Archers the Muster should also include recurves.

So, in the year 2000 the first ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ was held and is still being held to this day. They too had the same problems with the same sanctioning body as before - trying to dictate who would be allowed to attend the Muster. The Gladstone club went independent and went forwards; most importantly the Muster is open to all Traditional Bowhunters and Archers.

These next comments may ruffle some feathers but I think they are relevant to this discussion.

Sadly the year 2000 also saw the Hunter Valley Club start their annual Traditional shoot. They were great supporters of the ‘Australian Longbow Muster’ and it was sad, at least from my way of thinking, that they decided to host their shoot on the same weekend as the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ at Gladstone. They knew that the Muster was continuing but their official response to me was that if the Longbow Muster wasn’t being held as usual, then they were going to host their shoot and they didn’t care what anyone else was doing.

Some years on now that decision sees Australia’s Traditional Bowhunting and Archery Community faced with the fact that the two biggest gatherings of Traditional Bowhunters and Archers in this country are on the same weekend at venues in two different States.

I don’t know about everyone else but I think it would be much better for Australia’s Traditional Bowhunting and Archery Community to be gathered together at the ONE venue on the June Long weekend each year.

Now for some comments about the TAA since their name has featured a lot in this thread.

I found it strange that the TAA, at the Tully Trad shoot last year, initiated the "The Archery State of Origin" competition between Queensland and NSW which was held this last June long weekend at the Hunter Valley shoot. I mean why would they want to run such an event when they were fully aware that the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ was being held that same weekend at Gladstone in Queensland?

Just why would they run an event that they obviously wanted Queenslanders to travel down to, rather than want those same people to attend the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ which was being held in Queensland?

To me, the above kinda contradicts one of their stated aims which is, and I quote, “to unite traditional archers with communication, tournaments and recognition of achievements”, emphasis mine.

Going by comments on this site by the chairman of the TAA this group does not seem to recognize the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ as a national shoot and I find that very disappointing.

After 18 years of being the NATIONAL shoot for Australia's Traditional Bowhunters and Archers, I believe the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ not only deserves that recognition but it should remain as such. I think especially so, when to my knowledge, it was the first such shoot of its kind and for a number of years the only one.

Going on other comments that the chairman of the TAA made, it would seem that they wish to have (organize) Club State and a National shoots and would want a big say in how they were run.

I can see a lot of merit in the TAA and what they would like to achieve, however they must realize that they are the new kid on the block and that there are many well established Trad shoots that have been in place and have run very well for a lot of years.

IMO the TAA MUST consider how their ideas will impact on long standing events such as the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’, the ‘Queensland Traditional Rendezvous’ and the ‘Hunter Valley Traditional Gathering’ to name a few. They must sit down with the organizers of ALL such events (which has not happened yet to my knowledge) and work out what might be the best way forward for Traditional Bowhunting and Archery in this country.

If this does not happen then I feel that the goals of the TAA will never be achieved, or at least not to their full potential.

Sorry for this very long post but I felt it was prudent considering some of the comments in this thread so far.

Lastly, I just want to say that I am not a member of the Gladstone Bowhunters and neither do I have input into the organizing of the ‘Australian Longbow and Recurve Muster’ hosted by the Gladstone Bowhunters Club.

Jeff

[Kiwikelvin]

From the other side of the ditch. Jeff I appreciated your observations and the history lesson Sadly, ego's and personalities marr archery in Godzone as well. It would be nice to find some folk who would exercise a touch of maturity and put the interests of our fantastic sport first. With tongue in cheek why not all come over here for the Rendezvous and we could run a special section to select Aussies best. Neutral ground, no snakes, delicious food, convivial atmosphere and we will even freeze the beer for you.