Trad 2018

Shoots, gatherings, events and other happenings. Again, feel free to post appropriately.

Moderator: Moderators

Message
Author
longbowinfected
Posts: 2039
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:42 pm

Re: Trad 2018

#31 Post by longbowinfected » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:43 pm

I was lucky to be a foundation committee person for the Australian Archery Hall of Fame.
One of the most pleasing aspects of that was inviting all the associations to participate in the first dinner. From there they found common ground and started to co-operate more.

Forget the rights and wrongs but they had all started up new associations after not seeing eye to eye.

The Alliance will never be a fit all umbrella but it sure as heck is more positive than knocking each other and sniping at each other.

Stickbow Hunter has been around for much longer than me and his words ring very true to me.

The different associations are different reflecting different needs and interests of their members.

The Alliance was never started to be the solution or a magic wand but it sure came in handy every time our sport needed to respond meaningfully after recent bad incidents carried out. Ironically again to the best of my belief none of these incidents involved members of any of the associations.

There are a lot of hard earnt lessons to be had from history.
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.

User avatar
temudjin
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:18 pm

Re: Trad 2018

#32 Post by temudjin » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:39 am

Hi Longbowinfected,

you seem to have taken my comments as criticism of all the activities of the Archery Alliance so perhaps I should clarify:

One of the key messages I heard about the AA was that membership of one archery association would allow cross participation at other associations shoots via the AA.

This seemed like a really good thing to me given I only attend trad shoots and while I was happy to a member of one association, I felt it a rip off to be required to join multiple associations.

As I mentioned in my earlier post, my experience has been that many clubs claim a "no association card = no shoot" rule and I find this extremely disappointing. I have been told this is driven by the associations and there are plenty of threads here on OzBow covering this issue.

So... do archery associations do good work? Absolutely!

Do they also make poor decisions that are not in the best interests of members? Yes they do!

And do they actually encourage archers to come together rather than drawing distinctions between them and acting in an exclusionary manner? Well I'm pretty sure you can gather where I fall on this one.

longbowinfected
Posts: 2039
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:42 pm

Re: Trad 2018

#33 Post by longbowinfected » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:13 am

Temudjin,
Not criticising anyone or at least not intended.

Associations and clubs exist for their members, the people who stump up with the money that pays for the activity. When the cost and support work is shared by many the cost is little.

No club or association can go against their articles of association or their constitutions which normally contain their shooting or conduct rules. If they let anyone come for as many visits as they wanted for next to nothing without following their base rules why would anyone pay the real cost? That cost per week is less than a few Cheap coffees per week. I know a number of archers who live too fat away from clubbs/associations who join those clubs just so they can support such activity and/orgo to registered shoots. Archery Australia has a visitors rule which limits the number of visits even an association member from another club in the association can make. Most clubs in Archery Australia charge Ten Dollars for the ground fees for that visitor. They even confer Temporary Membership status on people doing Come n Try sessions......they have to.....this is required by insurance underwriters. If anyone gets injured and they or anyone else on the paddock is not signed on or fits the rules as to how they fit into the scheme if things the claim might be rejected.

It would not be in the interests of any club or associations to grant something for free to some non members but not to their loyal members. However perhaps there could be some discussion of the possibility of joining all associations say for a lesser fee or discount but which association or club can afford a cut in income? How many archers would pay for such a deal? How many archers try to pay for the cheapest option?

As to the Archery Alliance it was never the case that one membership in one association would or could grant the rights of membership to another association. From the very beginning the associations agreed to allow archers from other associations to be able to attend and compete at a small number of selected
Competitions. That was a huge step towards mutual trust and acceptance especially when you consider the past.
No blame or finger pointing .
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11447
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Trad 2018

#34 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:52 pm

temudjin wrote: that's not correct unfortunately. You can be a paid up TAA member and then still be told you must be a member of ABA to shoot at an ABA Club trad shoot. I have experienced this personally more than once.
Now I may be wrong in my thinking here but was that the fault of whatever association the host club belonged to, or, the host club for not asking their association to make their Trad shoot open to the members of all four of the alliance associations?

I was of the belief that the clubs hosting annual Trad shoots sort the permission from their association to open their shoots to all Alliance members and this allowed a big majority of Trad shooters to attend these shoots. If a person chooses for whatever reason not to be a member of one of the Alliance associations then they can't attend the shoots. As mentioned in my previous post, for a miserly $10 they could join TAA and be welcomed at most, if not all, Trad shoots held in this country.

Can anybody tell me for sure if this is the case and if it isn't please explain how it all works?

Thanks

Jeff

User avatar
temudjin
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:18 pm

Re: Trad 2018

#35 Post by temudjin » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:45 pm

Yup!

little arrows
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD

Re: Trad 2018

#36 Post by little arrows » Mon Jan 22, 2018 9:00 pm

yes the Archery Alliance means you can Participate.

If the ANAA allow visitors from down the road, interstate and even overseas to shoot, as long as everyone including spectators sign the book and archers pay the relevant shoot fees everyone is welcome. How can that be a bad thing?
Independent clubs eg HVTA, Twin City at Albury, Chevallan Archery Park, all welcome Visitors as well, as long as you sign the book.

Perhaps the dictatorial atmosphere at some clubs is also not very welcoming. Plus why should people join an association just to go to a couple of shoots in a 12 month period - even if it is only $10. That's only artificially boosting the numbers for group of persons who some may not agree with either......

To avoid any awkward moments for participants going to any of the Trad shoots prior to leaving home, I am asking each club to advise if Visitors are covered at their Trad shoot, or if it is a "No Card - No Shoot" shoot. The decision, of course, is up to you.

I am not at this point going into the Politics of the whole thing.

cheers
sue

User avatar
Outbackdad
Site Admin
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Dalby

Re: Trad 2018

#37 Post by Outbackdad » Mon Jan 22, 2018 10:41 pm

Stickbow Hunter wrote: As mentioned in my previous post, for a miserly $10 they could join TAA and be welcomed at most, if not all, Trad shoots held in this country.

Jeff
Hi Jeff

As tom has said he found this not to be true.
Stickbow Hunter wrote: Can anybody tell me for sure if this is the case and if it isn't please explain how it all works?

Thanks

Jeff
That can only be answered by a club official or someone from one of the associations.
I will be ringing before going to any shoots this year to make sure I can shoot and asking for it in writing so when I get there I do not get " we did not say that ".

Eddie

User avatar
greybeard
Posts: 2756
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Trad 2018

#38 Post by greybeard » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:25 pm

Relevant information for visitors attending North Albert Field Archers Inc. [By laws.]

Sections;

“8. All visitors to the Club are to be directed to an Officer of the Club on arrival at the Club.
Visitors wishing to shoot are restricted to the practice butts.
Following their third shoot at the club, visitors will be required to join the clubs affiliated association (currently 3DAAA) before being permitted to attend the club again.
Visiting members of the Archery Alliance or other affiliated archery clubs are accepted. All visitors will be required to pay a range fee.

9. At the discretion of the Management Committee visitors may be granted temporary membership for a period of four weeks.
Membership fees shall be waived but all other fees such as range fees, insurance etc will apply.
Whilst on any shooting ranges visitors with temporary membership must be accompanied by an adult financial club member.

10. Probationary members are not permitted to shoot on Club Ranges until such time that they have shown themselves competent in the use of the bow.
The Shoot Director / Coach shall be the sole arbitrator as to a member’s competency subject to that in his her absence the Range Captain may arbitrate.

11. Probationary members, either individually or severally, shall not shoot the Range Courses without a qualified member being present; this also applies to all visitors.”

The clubs traditional shoot held on the Easter weekend is a ‘sanctioned’ shoot held under 3DAAA rules and would be subject to the Association Cross Participation guide lines.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
temudjin
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:18 pm

Re: Trad 2018

#39 Post by temudjin » Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:58 pm

Thanks Greybeard,

that's the clearest and easiest to understand explanation of this issue I have seen to date. No doubts there about the ability to "participate" in the shoot given membership in one or more of the Archery Alliance member associations.

I am a current member of the ABA, so I should have no problems entering and shooting as long as I register on time, pay the nominated entry fee and behave in accordance with the rules of the shoot.

So, the only question left for me is... if I participate in the shoot am I eligible to win a trophy if my scores put me in the top three of my class?

User avatar
Roadie
Posts: 1657
Joined: Tue May 20, 2008 9:22 pm
Location: Irymple Vic

Re: Trad 2018

#40 Post by Roadie » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:24 pm

Ay Temudjin, the way i understand it No, you can shoot but not eligible for a gong. Cheers Roadie

little arrows
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD

Re: Trad 2018

#41 Post by little arrows » Tue Jan 23, 2018 5:36 pm

Thanks Daryl, save me contacting the club then. Looks like NAFA is off your list Eddie. Tom if they are going the cross participation route - then I believe only 3DAAA members are eligible for rostrum. Unless someone from NAFA (hint hint Daryl) advises other wise.

cheers
sue

User avatar
Outbackdad
Site Admin
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Dalby

Re: Trad 2018

#42 Post by Outbackdad » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:29 am

Not looking good to get to many shoots this year :crying-yellow:

Was going to go to North Albert with some new shooters from Brisbane, who were looking to have a go.

North Albert was were Lewis and I started, it was great. We got there and everyone was very helpful and we got to shoot for the weekend.
Reading the rules now it does not look as this can be done anymore.

( Visitors wishing to shoot are restricted to the practice butts. )

User avatar
greybeard
Posts: 2756
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Trad 2018

#43 Post by greybeard » Wed Jan 24, 2018 12:55 pm

Hi Eddie and interested Ozbow members,

This reply only covers the N. A. F. A. Traditional Rendezvous.

Non association members are eligible to shoot the ranges and win a trophy; however the person will be required to sign the non association member form.

3D AAA and any additional N.A.F.A. safety rules must be complied with at all times.
Outbackdad wrote:......( Visitors wishing to shoot are restricted to the practice butts. )

Eddie, we had to include that into our rules because on numerous occasions a newcomer who had never used a bow before had just purchased a bow and has come down to the club wanting to shoot it.

People known in the archery circle will have no trouble accessing the ranges.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

little arrows
Posts: 2679
Joined: Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:14 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast QLD

Re: Trad 2018

#44 Post by little arrows » Wed Jan 24, 2018 2:25 pm

"This reply only covers the N. A. F. A. Traditional Rendezvous.

Non association members are eligible to shoot the ranges and win a trophy; however the person will be required to sign the non association member form."



Above is the same as Wisemans Ferry, thank you very much Daryl, I thought there was an exception some where.

Much appreciation for the information. :)

cheers
sue

User avatar
temudjin
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:18 pm

Re: Trad 2018

#45 Post by temudjin » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:07 pm

Thanks Greybeard,

nice and clear so that makes things easy. I hope to see you at NAFA for the Rendezvous over the easter weekend.

Thanks again for clearing up all the uncertainty.

User avatar
Outbackdad
Site Admin
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Dalby

Re: Trad 2018

#46 Post by Outbackdad » Wed Jan 24, 2018 3:18 pm

Thanks Daryl

That makes thing a lot clearer, I hope to see you all at NAFA.

I can understand why it is in the rules.

Eddie

cetan56
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2015 11:12 am

Re: Trad 2018

#47 Post by cetan56 » Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:31 am

..PHEW....I was starting to get worried that common sense and the spirit of sensible co-operation was disappearing from the trad shoots esp the "cross-participation' rule which thankfully came in a while ago(not like when I started archery and was forced to be a member of 2assoc and pay 2sets of fees).Especially relevant to myself as looking forward to doing 3 trad shoots early this year-Albury,then Wisemans,then up to North Albert which is where I have fond memories of doing my first ever trad shoot,and then each year subsequently there.,but not for last 6years after having shifted 1500km south....and was getting worried and confused that I might not even be allowed to shoot at North Albert.But all looks good and looking forward to catching up and enjoying the shoots.

Ian Turner
Posts: 630
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:19 am
Location: Sydney NSW

Re: Trad 2018

#48 Post by Ian Turner » Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:13 pm

Hi guys who or what is NAFA?
Cheers

User avatar
Outbackdad
Site Admin
Posts: 413
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:46 pm
Location: Dalby

Re: Trad 2018

#49 Post by Outbackdad » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:15 pm

 North Albert Field Archers Inc. Brisbane

User avatar
greybeard
Posts: 2756
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Trad 2018

#50 Post by greybeard » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:32 pm

Hi Eddie,
Outbackdad wrote: North Albert Field Archers Inc. Brisbane
We are actually located in the Gold Coast City Council precinct.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
nuts1
Posts: 66
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 1:29 pm
Location: NANANGO QLD

Re: Trad 2018

#51 Post by nuts1 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:31 pm

Stickbow Hunter wrote:
temudjin wrote: that's not correct unfortunately. You can be a paid up TAA member and then still be told you must be a member of ABA to shoot at an ABA Club trad shoot. I have experienced this personally more than once.
Now I may be wrong in my thinking here but was that the fault of whatever association the host club belonged to, or, the host club for not asking their association to make their Trad shoot open to the members of all four of the alliance associations?

I was of the belief that the clubs hosting annual Trad shoots sort the permission from their association to open their shoots to all Alliance members and this allowed a big majority of Trad shooters to attend these shoots. If a person chooses for whatever reason not to be a member of one of the Alliance associations then they can't attend the shoots. As mentioned in my previous post, for a miserly $10 they could join TAA and be welcomed at most, if not all, Trad shoots held in this country.

Can anybody tell me for sure if this is the case and if it isn't please explain how it all works?

Thanks

Jeff
Yes Jeff you are correct
It is up to clubs when asking to hold a Trad shoot through their governing body that they request it be an open or cross participation shoot. Traditional Archery Australia is not a governing body however we are an Alliance member and as such are included in their cross participation policy and after reading the visitor/cross participation policy of ANAA we are also included.
TAA does not make rules, that is up to clubs and their governing bodys. TAA is here to Promote and Protect Traditional Archery which includes promoting our own Bowyers, Fletchers and Archers.
If you do not want to become a member of a governing body simply fill out a TAA form and pay $10 as an insurance policy this will allow everyone to be covered and attend all Traditional Shoots around Australia.

Thanks
Keith.

sage
Posts: 25
Joined: Fri May 09, 2014 8:20 pm

Re: Trad 2018

#52 Post by sage » Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:13 am

Well explained Keith. Simple really, join TAA problem solved.

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11447
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Trad 2018

#53 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Mon Feb 19, 2018 2:40 pm

Thanks Keith for the explanation.

Jeff

Post Reply