Ozbow

Hi Guys

What bows do you think should be eligible for trad events??

I thought that the thread about trad restrictions has gotten a fair amount of views and interest. But maybe there is more people who arent so verbal, and who simply read whats going on.

But i thought that maybe some of these more passive people would happily click on a poll and possibly add some kind of (possibly more accurate) percentile look at this issue.

Once i started listing the differing opinions i have realised there are some blurred lines, but i have tried to put a decent amount of options, with the option of changing your vote, as everyones opinion can change from time to time.

Obviously the biggest part of the conversation has been about ILF limbs, so i tried to ensure all views could be expressed through that.

Worth a try.
Scuzz

Scuzz,

You left out selfbows which in my opinion are the most traditional of all.

Daryl.

greybeard wrote:Scuzz,

You left out selfbows which in my opinion are the most traditional of all.

Daryl.

Hi darryl

I was aiming towards eligibility at trad shoots and once re-reading my OP i realised i wasnt too clear (i have edited to try and clarify further). Seperation of selfbows to longbows to asiatics etc, will give an excessive amount of options, which will exceed the limit of the POLL system.

I do agree with you on the selfbows being more traditional, shaping out of a single stave. For this reason i thought that most people would consider such a bow traditional.

I am mainly trying to aim towards the 'highly argued' topic regarding the ilf/takedown/metal risered etc systems.

Cheers
Scuzz

I would say any bow/material that is pre compound would fit the bill with the exception that timber arrows be used as they are the field leveler. Probably another can of worms opened. Steve

I like that .steve

Hi Steve,

longbow steve wrote:I would say any bow/material that is pre compound would fit the bill with the exception that timber arrows be used as they are the field leveler. Probably another can of worms opened. Steve

Perhaps the easier resolution would be any design that is pre-ILF (excluding Compounds drats I was looking foward to an Oneida). Trying to not open any "can of worms". Plus "Wood Arrows" and "Feathers" and Glass/Wood or Wood/Wood, etc. i.e. no HMG or similar material laminations.

Hi Scuzz,

There is no option for people who are happy with the existing rules being used by clubs / associations to vote.

In this situation the results will mean nothing.

Daryl.

greybeard wrote:Hi Scuzz,

There is no option for people who are happy with the existing rules being used by clubs / associations to vote.

In this situation the results will mean nothing.

Daryl.

ok
So you would like an option of "Dont change anything" ?

Scuzz

yes please Scuzz, that would make it easier.

cheers
sue

This is CRAP, Why do we have to change anything.
To me it's very Simple, If you don't Like the Rules & Regulations, DON'T Come, Stay Home.
Sue, Littlejohn, Wolf care to share some of my Home made Pear Cider. Cheers Roadie.

Hi Roadie, I'll drink to that!

Ronster

Scuzz, - there is no "confusion" with the bows, there is one or two people who believe that deflex/reflex longbows are recurves, despite the fact the string only touches the bow at the string nocks.

Here Here!!! Roadie.

Who's shout is it?

cheers
sue

scuzz wrote:

greybeard wrote:Hi Scuzz,

There is no option for people who are happy with the existing rules being used by clubs / associations to vote.

In this situation the results will mean nothing.

Daryl.

ok
So you would like an option of "Dont change anything" ?

Scuzz

If there is sufficent room it may be beneficial.

As the options stand most of the items are already covered in existing rules.

The main problem I see with the poll is that respondents can only tick one box.

If for instance I tick the flat laid longbows/selfbow only option it means that the other options are null and void.

In essence by ticking that option I am saying the other bow styles are not trad.

Daryl.

little arrows wrote:Scuzz, - there is no "confusion" with the bows, there is one or two people who believe that deflex/reflex longbows are recurves, despite the fact the string only touches the bow at the string nocks.

The string only touching at the string nocks doesn't make a bow a longbow Sue. A bow of deflex/reflex design can be a longbow only if the reflex fully comes out of the limbs when it is strung. If the reflex (recurve) remains than the bow is a recurve - pretty simple to understand IMO. To say differently one must disregard known bow design and terminology and our Trad Archery history IMO.

Jeff

Morning Scuzz,
I think Daryl is right in what he mentions above. Given that most of the debate has been around ILF & all the other options are already included in current rules, maybe just simplifing it a bit with something like

Should Ilf bows be allowed to shoot at Trad shoots?

Yes

No

Only if allowed in the shoot rules by Club running the shoot



I suppose the ony other question would be if they should be in a seperate catergory?
Just a thought.

The bows the arrow materials debate keeps going round and round, there really is no debate as per the shoot flyer or no, like greybeard mentioned a stick off the ground treated right becomes a selfbow.

No one would complain if someone wanted to hold an open tourney maybe a no wheels open slather type thing. In the meantime pick up stick string it pick up a smaller stick and fling it, just have fun with all the inconsistencies of timber and enjoy.

I've never seen a flyer that mentioned ILF...

Hi all, well I think this debate has gone on long enough! If a club puts on a Trad event ,"that is what it is"anyone wishing to shoot at the event knows right from the start. No one is stopping newcomers or anyone else from going! The only iffy question to me that does seem to need addressing, is the Reflex deflex issue. Not ILF limbs, Not Carbon arrows!! Also more catagories = more cost and more work. Maybe it should be the organising club that makes this distiction, after all it is their shoot and they give up their time and effort to give archers a fun weekend, place to shoot, a place to sleep and food to eat that I am exceedingly grateful for.

PS:- no more polls it wont settle this! dont fix what aint broke.

Ronster

Ronster wrote:Hi all, well I think this debate has gone on long enough! If a club puts on a Trad event ,"that is what it is"anyone wishing to shoot at the event knows right from the start. No one is stopping newcomers or anyone else from going! The only iffy question to me that does seem to need addressing, is the Reflex deflex issue. Not ILF limbs, Not Carbon arrows!! Maybe it should be the organising club that makes this distiction, after all it is their shoot and give up their time and effort to give archers a place to shoot that I am exceedingly grateful for.
PS:- no more polls it wont settle this! dont fix what aint broke.

Ronster

I dont like ILF bows, i dont like takedowns, but only on a personal level. However i dont see any advantage of having an adjustable limb connection, nor do i see much difference in a D/R design as opposed to a flat laid design, i personally think there is a trade off with every design.

So this topic doesnt affect me at all, as i dont mind if i were put into a recurve division due to my D/R design on my bow, and i dont shoot takedown. But i do see why people are wondering why these systems are exempt.

"Dont fix what isnt broken", so this is the reason for disallowing such bows??. Or dont they look 'trad' enough??. Or is there a proven advantage??

Well it isnt broken, can it be improved?? Can trad participation be raised?? All 'newbies' are seeing is a classification that doesnt really make sense to them, and i for one agree.

As for polls not settling this, offcourse it wont. But some people arent so verbal with their opinions, where a poll can sometimes show different statistics due to it being a less personal form of expressing their opinion.

No wheels and wooden arrows = trad, but this is only my opinion.

Scuzz

Hi Scuzz, I have edited my previous post, reffering to the organising club.

Maybe it should be the organising club that makes this distiction, after all it is their shoot and give up their time and effort to give archers a place to shoot that I am exceedingly grateful for.

That say's it all for me.

Ronster

“You can please some of the people some of the time all of the people some of the time some of the people all of the time but you can never please all of the people all of the time.”

― Abraham Lincoln



Sorry someone had to say it.

About time you Surfaced Scrubs, I thought you had dropped of the Planet. Cheers Roadie.

Ronster wrote: . Not ILF limbs, Not Carbon arrows!!
PS:- no more polls it wont settle this! dont fix what aint broke.

Ronster

Ronster ... what don't you like about ILF bows and how do you see them as an advantage ?

I am still querying what people have against ILF and why they should be disallowed given that it is just a limb connection system that allows some adjustability ... but to suggest that people would alter their tiller or poundage , in effect re tuning their bows mid shoot shows that people don't seem to understand it ...... How is it , once set up [ shooting off the shelf ] any different to any other take down recurve ?

You want wood arrows as they are 'trad' yet shoot a takedown that is far far newer in design and use than Easton alloy arrows ...

I just so happen to agree with clubs setting their own rules , and love wooden arrow events ... but there is room for all to participate ,not necessarily compete but participate . Particularly in the early stages of an archers career we can accommodate those who don't know or understand .

Trad is not a Bernard Cornwall novel , nor an extension of G Fred Asbells shooting method.
Its shooting longbows and recurves ... nothing more nothing less. But thats where it gets complicated

I am holding a trad shoot at my place this weekend ...

Single string bows only, any type of bow welcome ....... should be a heretical giggle or three .



By the way folks, thanks for letting me know what " trad " is by the way , given that I started with a longbow in 1980 ... well I am glad that someone cleared it up for me finally :roll

I do agree that ultimately the shoot rules should be left up to the club holding the shoot & if they choose to use the existing guide lines setout earlier than so be it. But if a club decided to allow Ilf bows in existing sections or under an additional section I would hope all the people that think it should be left upto the clubs would support that decision,after all it is what you wanted.

Can some one tell me, Did they have ILF bows and Carbon arrows at Pointers, Crecy, Agincourt, or at any other time During the 11th - 15th centuary. to me thats was Traditional Archery in England /France, during that time the Monguls arrived on the Door step with all their Gear.
Time for Drinks I think. Cheers Roadie.

Yeah roadie they we're right there with fibre glass, epoxy glues, phenolic, fast flight & plastic nocks!

Maybe a "Poly pipe bent over a hot stove element with a string cause i seen it on Youtube" section??

here you go grant ,the battle of the spurs and look at what the english archers are using.
full size english lonbows
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=batt ... B324%3B302

there are other photos in the book ''arrow storm'',with english archers having longbows with reflexed tips.


...nev...

Roadie wrote:Did they have ILF bows and Carbon arrows at Pointers, Crecy, Agincourt

At Agincourt they didn't even have pants.