Ozbow

My Whip Roadie

Bent Stick
Your good at Bullying & talking down to anybody that has an opinion that's differet to yours in this discussion, so tell me Bent Stick what amazing thing have you done or organised for the Trad Archery Community? What makes you think you can talk down to people & that they should just accept it or be branded a whinger? IN MY OPINION I think you talk down to people you know nothing about & behave like a spoilt brat.
I can tell you that I have never organised a Trad Shoot & am not a current member of any club although I was a member of the Grange club for many years also I don't shoot as much as I use to as I have a young family & they will always come first.I know you don't care about my opinion or anyone elses that's different to yours. But I can tell you that Traditional archery is my passion & I accept all forms of it not just a narrow minded view of it. So like it or not there are plenty of people out there that don't share your view, that does not give you the right to talk to these people like crap.

Bent Stick wrote:My Whip Roadie

I'll have a half

Toby if you feel bullied have along hard look at yourself, i'm not crying about a carbon shoot bud, you want it "go do it."
You sound like a school kid if you want everyone to agree with you, your going to wait a long time.

As for bullying ............***? have a cup of concrete; not eveyone is going to agree with you and if you want a drink just get up and go get if for yourself.

I do put on shoots, but pretty sure you'd meet my complaints department pretty quick so don't wait up for an invite.
Those that come, all put on shoots themselves also, they help themselves.

If your having a little sniffle put a few minutes into putting your case dow nthe some realitic business cases, estimate the effort required if any, the negatives and the positives and take it to the club holding the shoot your want to change the format for. Or hey just put it down wit ha plan and be prepared to put the yards in and make it happen.

If you can't be motivated to represent yourself and make your grievance a thing of the past and your wants a reality, it wouldnlt matter what anyone said; your a born victim of your own making bud, i'll have a scotch for you in an hour or so.

Evening All, Me thinks the Beast has been well & truly Flogged and needs to be Put down. DEAD Like.

Anthony has run off to Cleopatra, Rome is still in Turmoil. See what Happens tomorrow night.

Hazard only a half, Bentstick that Bowmore's a great malt, Enjoy. Cheers Roadie.

Bent Stick, What were those Traditional shoots that you organise? I don't expect everone to agree with me but unlike you I don't talk down to them when they don't.
If you took any notice of what I had written here you would see that I'm not asking any particular shoot to change to suit me & I have stated that Ultimately the Club running the shoot makes the rules. The current set of rules that is often discussed here is really a guideline for any Club to adopt or change to suit themselves as they see fit.
By the way when I shoot at a trad shoot I shoot wood arrows & a normal take down recurve or a take down deflex reflex hybrid bow & most times I don't even bother scoring, so sorry to disappoint you mate no Trophy hunter here.
As far as being a born victim goes, your only a victim If you don't stand up to people that try to stand over you & your obviously not use to people standing up to you & that's your problem not mine.

Nobody is standing over you Toby, you just appear to be alittle sensitive.

I'm saddened that the standards on this site have dropped to the extent where some load mouthed members can call others 'wingers' and 'clowns' and talk down to people with such hostility and get away with it. Where are the site moderators? It's time some of the members here simply grew up. Anyone accessing this site for the first time might think it's some alcoholic drink site, not a trad shooting site. What's with all the have a drink rubbish anyway?

I've grown tired of this subject anyway. I know when I'm banging my head against a wall. Trying to get some sort of intelligent conversation going here on this subject is like trying to discuss a glorious sunrise to a naked mole rat. Yes Roadie, I'm all for moving on.

By the way Bent Stick, you can say all you like in the future and it won't concern me in the slightest as I have organised my user control panel to exclude all of your posts. That way I won't have to put up with you and your childish, abusive and bullish ill manners.

Hi Mick.

Mick Smith wrote:My only concern is that the rules might not be as inclusive as they could be for our younger, more tech conscious trad shooters. Should we try to accommodate these archers within the trad shoot structure, or is it okay to simply turn them away? I don't know the answer. I was simply posing the question and a possible solution.

In my limited experience I have no evidence that people are being "turned away" - if anyone has some verifiable evidence it would be a revelation. So the question that could be asked are solutions be promoted for problems that do not exist with outcomes that are equally unknown?

I will suggest that increasing the number of divisions/classes does not appear to increase the participants. Instead it results in the dilution of the pool of participants. That may sound like a an unfounded argument however if people look at the results of AA competitions the dilution of the pool has resulted in almost "every player winning a prize". Is that a desired outcome?

I am also willing to suggest that many changes that people put forward are lacking in consideration of how they would be implemented and the potential outcomes/effects. It is much easier open classifications up - it is extremely hard to shrink them back down.

Time to go fling a few arrows.

GrahameA wrote:Hi Mick.

In my limited experience I have no evidence that people are being "turned away" - if anyone has some verifiable evidence it would be a revelation. So the question that could be asked are solutions be promoted for problems that do not exist with outcomes that are equally unknown?

I will suggest that increasing the number of divisions/classes does not appear to increase the participants. Instead it results in the dilution of the pool of participants. That may sound like a an unfounded argument however if people look at the results of AA competitions the dilution of the pool has resulted in almost "every player winning a prize". Is that a desired outcome?

I am also willing to suggest that many changes that people put forward are lacking in consideration of how they would be implemented and the potential outcomes/effects. It is much easier open classifications up - it is extremely hard to shrink them back down.

Time to go fling a few arrows.

Hi Grahame. It is refreshing to see some intelligent conversation on this subject. Organisers might not notice people being turned away, as it doesn't usually happen in the classic sense. I will give you an example of one of my personal experiences that took place a few years back. A member of this site (not me) turned up to a shoot with his brand new pride and joy, an ILF bow. This shoot had listed the rules and divisions previously, but they didn't mention anything about these sorts of bows. Anyway, this person happened to have a very good day. He shot better than he ever had and he even managed to achieve a score that would have put him into 3rd place, this is, if he wasn't disqualified for using his ILF bow. This person hasn't attended a shoot since. By my reasoning, there must be others similarly affected that are never detected by the mainstream trad community.

I take your point about the likelihood that increasing the number of divisions will not increase the number of participants. This is quite likely to be true to a large extent. I certainly don't want the ludicrous situation arise where all participants who enter, walk away with a prize. There has to be a balance. So yes, this is a valid point.

I suppose you could call me an old softy, as I don't like to see people feeling as though they have been left on the outer. I do know what increasing the number of divisions would mean at the organising level. I have organised a few shoots in my day. It would take some considerable effort and it would increase the costs associated to the club. From my personal perspective, I'm totally disinterested in shooting bows that don't currently qualify, so my motives are purely academic.

Yes mate, it is time to fling a few arrows certainly.

Mick debate reuires rebuttal otherwise if you complain and don't like an answer it's whinging. You all have valid statements they are not arguments without rebuttal.

The real debate is why haven't you fixed said problem? That's what the problem is unless prepared to get up and do it and don't like rebuttal ...... Your whinging

I have had my attention elsewhere the last couple of days and was away yesterday enjoying very special family time meeting our new little grandchild.

I come back to this rot.

Bent Stick your comments on the most part are just obnoxious, insulting to others and augmentative seemingly just for your own entertainment.

This thread has had its time IMO so I am locking it.

Jeff