Any interest demonstrating bowyers & fletchers craft?

[longbowinfected]

Near Anzac day each year my archery club puts on a Come and shoot session at Ironfest in Lithgow.
A few of us dress up in medieval gear and display medieval bows, weapons and arrowheads. We are situated next to the medieval re enactors, displays of medieval fighting, jousting on horseback and a lot of interesting things....check out Ironfest just Google in the name.

When in Europe in 2011 in Austria at an archery tournament there was in the suppliers area, an open sided tent of bowyers on their sit on bow stave horses knocking up freshly quartered and debarked witch hazel staves turning them into ELBs....it generated great interest.

I would really love someone to come along with staves and knock up light ELBs. They could bring extra along and sell them, take orders. A fletcher to do the same would be great too. My main aim would be to create more interest in archery. None of this is official with my club yet, I am testing the waters. Guys like Roadie have come and had fun. During lulls in activity when the crowds watch feature battles you can plink away to your hearts content. Fair amount of camaraderie round the campfire at night and those re enactors have a thousand years of party knowledge. The medieval bit is not as big as the sole purpose shows and the weekend is about iron and craft but our end of the park is growing.

I reckon someone who wanted to make Flemish twist strings would get sales. I would be pretty confident that those displaying their skills would get orders if only from the re enactors. Cheap simple belts, quivers would move too. Having said that the lower end of the market would be likely to get sales on the day but better gear would sell if simple cards or brochures were brought along. This is something that is getting bigger and brighter each year.....if participating you will not make a fortune but you will have fun whilst doing your thing. You can come and camp with us. We have a couple of those big bell tents....mat, sleeping bag, swag and antifreeze optional but strongly recommended.

A couple of thousand people come to our stand each day with just under a thousand having a shot each day. A couple of hundred over the weekend would think about purchasing simple lower poundage gear. We camp right next to the medieval village and let the re enactors shoot for free. Many of those would buy medieval bows and arrows.

Ordinarily if you went and ran a store they would charge a fair bit. If you were legitimately part of our cultural display and sales was a minor component of your activities and you assist in entertaining the attendees it should be OK.

Kevin

[AndyF]

Hey Kev,

Maybe I could bring some tools etc along and crest and fletch up a few semi finished shafts. Feather burner might put a few off though.

A

[longbowinfected]

wonderful Andy.
I can bring a generator but it isn't a medieval model. Then again make up some low poundage straight hand cut medieval arrows and they would sell. One length and spine for all around thirty pounds. Self nok demo, fletching demo and simple front and rear tying would go down a treat. Bring samples and pix and I reckon you would get orders for the real fancy stuff if you wanted orders. There would be plenty of knowledgeable types to go ooh ahh. We could use you in the English army for the "battle" shoot off if it is on.

Bar be que chefs par excellence are always welcome. Antifreeze provided free of charge. Have some nice cognac to add to my Irish whisky. See if the rest of the crew at Sydney Bowmen are interested. We have a couple of Bell tents.

Kevin

[hazard]

Your a genius Kev!!
Who wouldn't want to have a crack! I cant make ELS's yet but I could stand around supervising the Archery stuff look really vacant and snore really loudly at night

Hazard

[stringnstik]

As hazard said, damn brilliant idea. Hmm might have to consider possibilities. Why is everything so far away from me

not particularly interested in after orders, life is busy enough as is. but on the day could be a bit of fun knocking up some leather n such in between swigs
.

[longbowinfected]

April 20 & 21, 2013.
You get asked a lot of questions about archery whilst they wait to have a shot.
A few of us dress up in medieval clobber. I display ELBs, horse bows, a collection /display of medieval arrow points, swords, knives, axes. I hope to have a supply of Archery Alliance brochures plus brochures listing Archery Alliance suppliers [those who support the Alliance. 600 people shoot each day but about 5,000 a day spend time looking and chatting.

Only negative is some mongrels broke into our clubhouse and stole three of our medieval looking Bell tents. We cannot afford to replace them. Has anyone out there got plans for those simple Norsemen post and rail tents? or something similar?

Kevin

[stringnstik]

Im assuming, by the note above re generator. That the items do not necessarily have to be created using authentic methods?

[longbowinfected]

my personal preference would be simpler the better. We are situated in a medieval camp/tent town. We are on the local football field and they put the floodlights on until quite late. Most of us use el cheapo suitcase cookers but the reenactors do the really authentic cooking.
We are always invited to the feast. Sometimes we just order pizza for dinner if the day has been brutally busy [club pays for dinner then]. Kids are welcome and especially encouraged to dress up.

I really would rather not use a generator as they do make noise and most things done by hand engage the punters. They can see themselves doing simple things and can see the low cost aspects. If I do not have to carry a generator it is one thing less in a pretty big list.
Having said that if you wanted to make dowels using power tools or electrically burn feathers that is a reasonable modern extension and worthy of doing in short occasional bursts.

Kevin

[GrahameA]

Afternoon All.

I really would rather not use a generator as they do make noise and most things done by hand engage the punters. They can see themselves doing simple things and can see the low cost aspects.

Grab a bundle of shafts. Do initial nock cutting at home so all you have to do is finish nocks and finish arrows at the site.

Those who are keen can cut nocks with a saw.

If you like you can make up Wood arrows with plastic nocks with hand tools and a couple of Fletching Jigs. Take along a chopper and make Eleven Arrows (Go Legolas) for the kids .... and the big kids as well.

[longbowinfected]

Yes Grahame, I have a chopper. Scissors work OK if you run tape along the feather. I like using leather rings with a Y cut to fletch by tying but at the end of the day I am happy to run with what each contributor wants to do.

At the back of my mind I would like a lot of turkey or duck/goose feathers and allow people to buy their components and make a medieval arrow to take home as a keepsake and of course give them a hand to make up an arrow. Not everyone would want to do that but it would involve people.

I like making strings or serving strings and people like to see that too. Perhaps demonstrations of making Flemmish twist strings would be interesting.

It would be great if someone made up a selfbow and people could see a draw knife being used.Even a couple of arrow shafts at different stages of hand planing/being made would be excellent.

The main mission for the club is to raise funds and awareness through the come n try. This cultural exercise is to make it more intersting and educational....to raise the bar. Some of the punters wait a long time to shoot. Some of them would advance their home / farm archery by watching some of the work being done. I reckon home handyman dads would get interested.

If we do make arrows I would prefer one style fits all say big medieval feathers and spined to 30 pounds, fitting in with re enactors' needs. There probably would be a few re enactors who might need strings too. I would like it to be a win/win thing.

Eventually I would like to run an archery craft competition, but not this year.



Kevin

[little arrows]

Hey Kev,

The concept is great. Steve did arrow making demonstrations at the Longbow musters and then continued at the Gladstone shoots, however after a while people became disinterested, so he stopped. Now he does one on one as people ask.
A couple of us also did a bow making and arrow school at a tech college in New Zealand a few years ago, leading into one of their trad shoots which was very popular too.
There is talk of a similar thing being done in Qld at some stage too.
Hope it goes well.

cheers
sue

[stringnstik]

Im certainly excited by the prospect of this, whish there was an outlet down south for such things but we just dont get the numbers.
Ok on the use of power, I expected as much. You wouldn't want to be lugging too many power tools about. Defeats the look n feel of the camp.

As I see it you have to consider the initial tool up preparation. As GA suggested get initial stuff done at home. Primarily because it takes time to produce..especially without the aid of power tools. One has to consider tho how many or guesstimate how much you make pre event. Overdo it and it hurts the pocket, under shoot it and your twiddlin your thumbs for the rest of the day. As a club its a great idea..
scenario:
Premake up say 10 staves. finish and sell 4, go home with 6. Sure if the club could then use those 6 or pass them on to incoming new members all is good. But if say its just me and i return home with 6 and no outlet to pass them on it can become an expensive/wasteful weekend.
Same goes for arrow shafts, strings or anything I guess.

I could see tho that having a bunch of say square billets. A bloke with a plane showing the hexagonal then rounding it off and nocking n pointing is dooable. But how many points do you have on hand on the chance people want arras? Then another bloke fletching etc

I guess point is who provides the stock?

[longbowinfected]

I think a few arrows at different stages that you do a bit on each one.
Same for a couple of bows.
Similar for strings.

Nothing stopping us making some rough bows for small kids say using boo boards? say little pyramid bows.

Also make some small arrows, tied with sharpened points for kids.

Nothing wrong with making a few adult arrows.

I have one offer for shaft stock.

Looking for anyone with raw full feathers.

Early days yet.

Kevin

[jcm]

The kid's arrows may require rubber blunts for safety.
Regards

John

[GrahameA]

Hi Kevin.

I think a few arrows at different stages ...... Early days yet.

Allow me to pour a bucket of Icy Water over you for a minute of two. It is all possible - it is really is just doing a bit of "Prior Planning and Preparation" to Prevent...... .

You can make bows from Bamboo Boards in both Small and Large sizes. And you can do a lot of early work with a saw!!! However I suggest you build a few prototypes first.

And then there is the issue of insurance!! Yes a bit of "Killjoy" - however it is something that has to be considered.

People who are thinking of doing things need need to sort out the Logistics and what you need to do beforehand. If you are making Medieval Arrows - then that is very different to making modern arrows. And if the people are say SCA members making some decent arrows for themselves that is a very different game than if it is the general public.

Over the years I have run a few workshops and whilst I am happy for the SCA people to make things at workshops I would not be so happy with general public touching things.

[longbowinfected]

Great input Grahame and John.

Blunts for kids. If I can get some Macadamia nuts in the shell I might make them whistling arrows.
These arrows are for momentos.
I will not let kids handle sharps except rasps or files. I was thinking more like sanding or waxing. Perhaps using a thin file and jig to cut a self nock. One supervised kid at a time or even adult if they expressed such a wish
Not a full hands on lots of kids making lots of arrows. In the past I have sanded smooth broken fore and aft ends, asked the waiting kids "who wants a momento? first hand up wins" This time I will ask once every half hour or so "who wants to help make an arrow which they can keep" I find selective gratuity and largesse enhances the fervour. Any who miss out get a couple of free extra arrows to shoot.

Everyone signs our Come n Try book. It is an official AA Come n Try. AA Head Office are fully informed what we have done in the past and what we are intending. I send them an email prior to the event and carry the AA insurance docs as on the website.
Anyone working there or waiting there is covered.
The craft component is equipment maintenance and manufacturing.
There will be a 3m x 3m covered pergola it is also the exterior boundary to our lot on that side there are display items. One of the other sides forms part of the entry way.
Tables to line each like an "L" shape.

This demo is a lesser part of the Come n Try. I normally repair club gear and display bows arrows and points and people watch and ask questions so I thought this was a natural progression. I have made a number of laminated info sheets that a lot read.

With better medieval arrows they could be made up prior.... with a few in different stages. The owners would sell quite a few as the merchants there sell expensive $12-$15 reproduction arrows which really do not last long but are very pretty....there might only be 60 medieval re enactors there but they would love no frills well made arrows to shoot with. Members of the general public would buy a few too. I have sold other people's bows there but the one thing asked for is medieval arrows...plane Janes. Might be only three or four dozen that move but would pay for a portion of fuel costs. A few bamboo bows like Jim Masons would sell if under $200.

Kevin

[longbowinfected]

Stringstick,

I have dozens of brass and steel field points some second hand in good nick that we could use if needing extra points is an issue. One of our suppliers who supports this forum is providing stock.
I really want the demo people to have an opportunity to recoup petrol expenses, perhaps start cottage production and at the least enhance the concept that here is a sport where you can keep those costs down and enjoy doing so.

Our club is not a trad club so I am happy to project a positive light on all aspects, it is just that the Robin Hood pathway really grabs them.

Kevin

[GrahameA]

Hi Kevin.

With better medieval arrows they could be made up prior.... with a few in different stages. The owners would sell quite a few as the merchants there sell expensive $12-$15 reproduction arrows which really do not last long but are very pretty....

Allow me to put my "Voice of Reason" hat on for a few seconds. Talking about re-enactors. They always expect the impossible. So like all people if they want "quality" products then they need to be prepared to pay for them.

If people are breaking them all the time then shoot them in the target and if they are splitting them learn to shoot so the arrows just slide in next to each other.

A bit of a reality check. So when someone says they want some re-enactors arrows what do they want? A person using a Medieval English Longbow needs an appropriate Bow and some arrows that look the part - might as well base them on arrows from the "Mary Rose". (And note the more we make like the "real thing" the faster the price goes up. Have a look at what arrows cost in England).

So for Medieval-ish Longbow Arrows we need:
* 32" 3/8" shafts and it would be appropriate that the shafts are either tapered to the nock or are barrel tapered.
* they need to be self-nocked and then bound for reinforcing. (Or perhaps have horn or hardwood inserts.)
* fit with quality points - Top hat screw-ons, glue on points are not worth the trouble they cause in the long run. (Reproductions or Modbods are another story)
* 7" or 8" fletchings all which have to be fully bound.

So with that amount of labour, etc. and based on being well made the $12 per arrow is not overpriced.

Then again if all that is wanted is some cheap wood arrows then that is another story - and you will still be in the $10-$12 territory.

And for those who want cheaper again can make them themselves.

[longbowinfected]

most of these guys make arrows out of heavy unspined hardwood dowell from Bunnings and glue their flights.
The good looking arrows usually sold there are around 30 inches, with rounded bodkin points {Asiatic type] low profile 4 inch feathers short spine extending front and back, tied front and back. The ties are half inch long linen thread the back tie joins onto the tie preceeeding and protecting the cut self nock.
If we used Northern Pine and build simularly they should be well received.
I propose tied front and back and glued. I also propose stee fieldl points and full length shafts.
I propose hand cut groove and then domed and tied. Perhaps do a few there for demo but make up a number before getting there. Maybe have six sitting in a Jo Jan [although not medieval] each day cycling through the same as those pre made. Perhaps make a scale drawing for the aft end so that a number of contributors can make a couple of dozen. If each person made up the same thing at home they sell what they make. I will get my head around whether each person is sent stock individually or whether you get replacement stock at the venue. Perhaps glue points on at the show.
Further discussion needed, The arrows for kids having a go of course would be free. They could be made of Ramin stock.

Handcutting feathers already attached by scissors or hammer cutting dies would be interesting.

Kevin

Kevin

[Buckler]

So the next one will be on next April? (2013)

[longbowinfected]

yep. we camp overnight....you need antifreeze and a warm swag up off the ground....good fun.
Spectators pay a fortune to get in. I think the average family costs around a hundred bucks just to get in...lots of things happen though such as jousting, armed combat, Napoleonic armies battling each other with awesome cannon and musket fire and this year there was a broad range of predatory birds demonstrating aspects of falconry, belly dancing and sometimes horse archery and tent pegging medieval style.....with the occasional ritual executions such as disembowelling and quartering a real favourite with the crowd.

Kevin

[NCArcher]

We had a ball at Ironfest this year. It is well worth the entry price.
I didn't get to shoot at Kevin's come'n'try because it was always too crowded. There was a long line up all day to have a shot and I kept getting dragged off to see something else.
Maybe next year. I do like the idea of bowyer, fletcher demos though and I think they would be well received.

[longbowinfected]

NCarcher, if you are an AA member you get looked after. Next time dress up and bring your own gear and you can shoot for free if using your own gear or at the quiet times if using ours.

We let all the reenactors, the firies, ambos and police/security shoot for free. Anyone with a food stall too......especially the son of the donut man and the coffee vendor.

Anyone who works on our stall gets in for free but we do have to have names on a list and you do have to have a role.

Mine is having fun and stirring/winding people up.

Kevin

[GrahameA]

Morning Kevin.

NCarcher, if you are an AA member you get looked after. Next time dress up and bring your own gear and you can shoot for free if using your own gear or at the quiet times if using ours. We let all the reenactors, the firies, ambos and police/security shoot for free. Anyone with a food stall too......especially the son of the donut man and the coffee vendor. Anyone who works on our stall gets in for free but we do have to have names on a list and you do have to have a role. Mine is having fun and stirring/winding people up.

Where are the Photos!! I want Photos!!
Make with the photos. You are selling the product let us see what we buying.

[kerrille]

yep i will dress up and so will the family ,no probs making arras by hand.

...nev...

[longbowinfected]

good on you.

Kevin

[perry]

I have assisted Cliff Turpin several times at the Abbey Medievel Fayre held each year up here at Caboolture. My Role was to demonstrate how to make a Selfbow from a Stave split from a Tree using period correct Tools. No problem as I prefer to use the old Hand Tools. Most Medievel Fayre's I actually managed to at least get a Bow Tillered to Brace Height, finished a couple as well. It is very hard to concentrate on the task at hand when you are explain each step and answering general Archery Questions the Public ask, I loved every minute of it

I also demonstrated how to make Self Nocked Wooden Arrows from pre sawn Blanks. I did use a modern manufactured small metal Hand Plane that looked the part but was not technically period. I sat there with a grooved Board on my Lap and explained the process to all and sundry as I happily worked away.

My Family and some of our non Archery Friends used to come to the Fayre each year to Point and Laugh at me dressed up in my Medievel Costume, the kids reckon it was a dress and still give me grief to this Day. I'm not a Medievel Reinactor, anyone that knows me knows I'm a Neanderthal

Any of you Folks that get involved with demonstrating these ancient Skills will find it very rewarding

regards Jacko

[GrahameA]

Morning All.

My Family and some of our non Archery Friends used to come to the Fayre each year to Point and Laugh at me dressed up in my Medievel Costume, the kids reckon it was a dress and still give me grief to this Day.

That would be Friar Perry - complete with sandals. I need to dig back through a few years photos - there must be one there.

[Roadie]

Yes Grahame that is a must, Friar Perry, definatley a must see photo. Cheers Roadie.

[Tonylange]

G'day Kevin, And to all on this Thread.
I'm currently a Re-enactor and Fletcher, I just finished doing some period fletching demos at Winterfest this year. So I'm in for 2013 Ironfest Kev
Cheers Tony