First Trad Hunt

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longbow steve · #1 Post by **longbow steve** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:48 pm

I arrived home yesterday from my first Trad Hunt in a NSW State Forest , I didnt manage to bag anything but had a couple of shots at Game with my heart beating loudly in my head and made a start on discovering some useful hunting ground.
My hunting partner was Jeffro and thankfully he had a researched knowledge of the forest to ensure we had some nice areas to scour.

longbow steve · #2 Post by **longbow steve** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:58 pm

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Despite being the only booked hunters in the forest we were joined by numerous other hunters unfortunately but despite this I think the Bow Karma worked in our favour and presented each of us with shot opportunities.
The first day sightings were comprised of small game, rabbits were in reasonable numbers and Jeff managed a stalk on a Black feral cat about 20m off a forest trail but it fled when he got his bow half drawn

. It was not long after this that I looked down and saw some webbing which upon further investigation turned out to be a belt with 2 knives attached

, I then told Jeff that I had left my hunting knife at home on the bench where I was sharpening it and the find was fortunate.

longbow steve · #3 Post by **longbow steve** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:27 pm

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The next day saw Jeff have a few shots at bunnies and a mottled feral cat which contorted its way around his arrow

.
We saw heaps of pig sign, huge ammounts of earth turned over but no sightings of the illusive creatures. I was starting to conclude that late afternoon was our best bet of catching them starting the night shift or early in the morning heading to their beds.

Benny Nganabbarru · #4 Post by **Benny Nganabbarru** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:27 pm

A good find, Steve! All the best in the future there.

Gringa Bows · #5 Post by **Gringa Bows** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:38 pm

sounds like you had a good time Steve,Jim Bowey will be glad you found his knife.........................Rod

longbow steve · #6 Post by **longbow steve** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:47 pm

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Out for an afternoon hunt we selected an area that contained a few less trees an more open country with the idea that we may be able to spot game a bit easier. This area felt good so I slowed right down, checking the shrubbery that skirted a small creek I felt sure I would flush a beasty but other than the numerous roo's and wallabies it was not happening

. I practiced stalking on 3 Rosellas and reduced a 20m gap to 5m before they felt uncomfortable and left without knowing what I was

.
The wind was in my face as I came out of the trees into a small clearing, I heard a noise to my right and instantly the heart started pounding as a large Sow entered the trees I had just exited about 25m away. I knew that she would be on to me soon as the wind wasn't in my favour but I began a stalk trying to keep my scent in front of her. I managed to close the gap to 15m but when I looked out from behind a tree to see whether I could get a shot she looked my way with her nose in the air and I was busted

.
The sow is the little black thing in the centre of shot above, It is funny that mid stalk I was thinking of you guys wanting to see photos and almost had to yell at her to stop so I could get a photo

longbow steve · #7 Post by **longbow steve** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:04 pm

I was switched on after that experience and hopeful that I would come across others up and about. The next clearing presented 3 juvenile pigs around the 25kg mark but despite getting a shot off at 15m I was unsuccessful once again.
Daylight was quickly dissappearing so I got on the radio to see where Jeff was and headed back to the Hilux. When I made it back Jeff relayed the tale of flushing a large boar from the under growth but it was into the next valley by the time Jeff got an arrow on the string.

longbow steve · #8 Post by **longbow steve** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:12 pm

The next morning saw us pack up camp for the trip home but not before a return trip to the productive area.
Within 10 minutes I had spotted a black figure on the top of a nearby hill and made haste to get there before the pigs moved on. On cresting the rise I was greeted by Jeff with 2 young pigs in hand taken one after the other with perfect shots. Thinking these were the pigs I was following we took some photos and continued on the hunt. We found that there were more pigs just 30m away feeding in a ripped up area and Jeff watched me send a timber shaft just over the back of the nearest one and lodge into a log

.

longbow steve · #9 Post by **longbow steve** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:19 pm

All in all a fun time despite not harvesting anything, It was great to be out there finally and I am inspired to hit the forests more and utilise the free legal hunting thats on offer on public land.
Steve

#10 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:09 pm

Seems like it was an experience you will remember for some time. I hope you manage to down one next time.

Jeff

Jeffro · #11 Post by **Jeffro** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:34 pm

It was a great weekend
heres some more scenery

#12 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:42 pm

Great to see those photos Jeffro. We don't have wombats up this way and I think I have only ever seen one in the wild down at Col Graham's in Vic once. They sure do dig BIG holes.

Jeff

longbowinfected · #13 Post by **longbowinfected** » Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:55 pm

Looks like an Oldtimer / schrade pocket knife......great knives .....I have a collection of their hunting fixed blades and pocket knives.

Good read.

Kevin

piggy · #14 Post by **piggy** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:49 am

Well done on a great trip.

Out of curiosity, if you and Jeffro were the only booked hunters for that forest were the other hunters permitted to be there?

Cheers

longbowinfected · #15 Post by **longbowinfected** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:35 pm

I do not think there is much you could realistically do about it even if the other guys are in the wrong.....not the sort of thing you should have a shoot of about.
Every one should know about this stuff now.
You do not have any authority and it would be silly to start a blue about it.
I would be inclined to record their rego numbers in case the authorities blame me for any inappropriate behaviour because be blowed if I would be prepared to take the heat for someone else I do not know. It is pretty unAustralian to dob them in and I do not know whether there is a legal responsibility to do so.....delicate problem in ethics.

Kevin

longbow steve · #16 Post by **longbow steve** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:51 pm

Hi Paul, Kevins right. The first party we encountered were Indigenous hunters targeting roos so we thought we would do some research on their hunting rights and also made a point to let them know we were licensed hunters with permission. The second party was two men with three young fellows with bows who mentioned they were hoping to hit some rabbits, they had cleared out when we returned from a walk.
The third party were doggers doing a quick hunt through the forest after being unsucsessful at a nearby property.
It wasnt worth getting upset about the other hunters especially when they are armed. We chatted to them and Jeff showed the young Indigenous fellas how effective the bow was, I showed them a self bow and mentioned that the American Indians used similar to hunt for life with the hope that I would spark some interest in their own Traditional weapons although Jeff then distracted them with VIOLET CRUMBLES

.
The Forest was big enough for us all and we asked them where they intended hunting and avoided each other. Steve

piggy · #17 Post by **piggy** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:56 pm

Thanks for the replies, I was just curious. Is it possible that some of them were able to book the same forrest at the same time?
I would have thought now with the game council they would want you to record their regos if at all possible and let them know.

Cheers

longbow steve · #18 Post by **longbow steve** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:03 pm

Hi Paul, They weren't booked in as I checked upon return, also they werent wearing blaze orange.
I dont want to be a GC watchdog, I go there to escape. Although I will reconsider how I feel about non registered forest in the future. Steve

#19 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:13 pm

It is pretty unAustralian to dob them in and I do not know whether there is a legal responsibility to do so.....delicate problem in ethics.

UnAustralian?

delicate problem in ethics

Are you serious?

The Forest was big enough for us all and we asked them where they intended hunting and avoided each other. Steve

I don't know the laws in relation to this but IF the other people hunting in the State forrest where you were hunting were breaking the law then you most certainly should advise the authorities. Law breakers are just that, law breakers and if they were hunting illegally then they were/are doing wrong by all hunters.

Consider this, I thought one of the reasons justifiying the starting of Game Council was it was to help stamp out illegal hunting!

Jeff

longbow steve · #20 Post by **longbow steve** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 7:41 pm

Hi Jeff, I thought someone would react this way. Kevin knows what went on up there as I told him today.
The indigenous hunters were seen by local police both carrying Roo's on the back of the truck aswell as children riding on the tray operating the spotlight, They mentioned qouta's of Roo's so I was unsure whether they have hunting rights or whether the authorities see it as too much of a hassle?
If the police turn a blind eye to their activities what good is my reporting their registration numbers? I noted that I will reconsider reporting illegal hunters in the future but I will use my discretion. Considering that the kids spent the night with no bedding in freezing conditions and that the roo's taken were for meat rather than sport I dont feel placing their guardians in trouble with law as a good out come for the welfare of the children.
As for the doggers, they got away with it this time but I wont be so accomodating the next.
Steve

#21 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:04 pm

As I said, I don't know the legalities of what went on but if you think any of the three groups were breaking the law then they should be reported IMO. You went to the effort of making sure you were hunting legally and that responsibility lies with everyone else as well.

Illegal hunting only has negative effects on all the law abiding hunters. Their illegal hunting activities (if it was illegal) may just go towards having your rights to legally hunt being taken away. There are many who would use anything against us hunters to have hunting banned.

Jeff

longbow steve · #22 Post by **longbow steve** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:22 pm

Fair points Jeff, I will mention on my report for the game council that there was other hunters there and perhaps it may prompt an area crackdown?
Jeffro and I made points of mentioning that we had GC permission to be there and we spent time with each group and hopefully they got the message passively

. Steve

Jeffro · #23 Post by **Jeffro** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:25 pm

Could have dobbed them in but by the end of the trip I could not have been bothered.Maybe next time.
As far as the aboriginal blokes went,they were camping right near us,there was about 15 of them,some of the adult were not small and looked like they could have been in jail before , plus they had guns. We were not near a phone box and it was much easier to just go and chat with them and enjoy our hunting..
Its pretty easy to sit behind a computer screen and act tough hey?

#24 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:39 pm

Its pretty easy to sit behind a computer screen and act tough hey?

Jeffro, of course your safety comes first and I am not suggesting that you had to do anything then and there and have it possibly endanger yourself or anyone else. However, I stand by my comments that the actions of the other hunters (once again, if they were illegal) should be reported to the appropriate authorities. I don't feel that has anything to do with being tough behind a computer screen.

Jeff

piggy · #25 Post by **piggy** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:46 pm

I was only curious as I read somewhere the game council wants other hunters to report the regos of those doing the wrong thing to the game council so the can start a database and if enough complaints come in regarding a particular person / rego they may look at not issuing a game license or access.

So I was curious as like Jeff I'm not up to speed with the game council regs.
Thanks for you replies

Cheers

Jeffro · #26 Post by **Jeffro** » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:47 pm

Like Steve mentioned that one group of 2 adults and 3 kids we saw that had bows were gone 2 hours later.They had packed up there camp and left after I made a point of pulling over,getting out,walking over to their camp and taliking to them.During which I happened to mention we were there legally.
When we first saw them they had not been there long and were lighting a fire.Never saw their car again either camped or driving around.

longbowinfected · #27 Post by **longbowinfected** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:44 am

Jeff you are correct in saying that we have to care.
The only problem with this is we are not police and without appropriate training and resources support it could all go wrong. The courts are tasked with determining guilt. We are lay hunters with minimal rights and support.
A event where "he said, they said" and the others are greater in number could very quickly escalate to a serious blue that spills over and continues
At the end of the day, the fees paid for licensing and our taxes pay for professionals to do this.
I would record regos in my diary though in case I got blamed for someone else misdeeds.
Before reporting anything that is as specific as car regos common sense dictates that you would like to have reasonable assurance that your name would not be released and that you would not be identified. Therein lays another problem, as malicious reporting is likely or even counter reporting.
Common sense also dictates that if you do report someone and there is a stink/action taken against them pretty soon after their transgression there might be a big problem for you if you want to go back because you like the place. Chances are better than even that they return too.
I would be prepared and probably feel obligated to advise the GC that others were there [might be double booking issue or the people might be exempted because they are professional hunters or because they are indigenous] and that they ought to be aware of it in general terms they could then check it out.......gets the job done, they only get caught if they transgress.

Kevin

longbowinfected · #28 Post by **longbowinfected** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:06 am

Piggy,

not trying to attack you as you posted a reasonable question based upon what you read .
If someone actively decides to act illegally, what use is it that the GC stops a person getting a license when it is extremely likely that they are never going to apply and extremely likely that they will continue to transgress?
Licensing is really only embraced or accepted by those who intend to act in good faith. I suspect the police have to catch them in the act. The police can only move against someone with reasonable expectation of success and be tempted to charge someone if it happens in front of them or there is compelling evidence.
Statements and complaints are probably not enough other than to expedite patrolling the area. Otherwise they are not interested in prosecuting. Even in cases of assault quite often people have to bring on their own civil cases against people.

Kevin

#29 Post by **Stickbow Hunter** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:12 am

The only problem with this is we are not police and without appropriate training and resources support it could all go wrong.

Kevin, as already covered above, no one is expecting any citizen to take action, other than say jot down a rego number, at the secene. Simply report the matter to the authorities straight after the hunt.

I feel your argument is similer to if you see a car at a house where you can see people breaking and entering and you won't bother reporting it to the Police with a rego number because you don't wish to get involved. You would only tell them if you were implicated. I simply don't agree with that thinking.

Lastly, there is a very real safety concern with the above scenario!!! It would seem that Steve and Jeff were the only ones with approval to be there yet there were people shooting firearms as well. Shooting firearms in the bush when there are others (unknown to either party) walking around in the same area is very unsafe and certainly would be of concern to me and I would most certainly think the authorities. That would be the very reason for having nominated hunting (perhaps bowhunting only) areas I would think.

If someone actively decides to act illegally, what use is it that the GC stops a person getting a license when it is extremely likely that they are never going to apply and extremely likely that they will continue to transgress?

While it is true that people will continue to break the law if they want to, the extension to that argument is why have laws at all then.

Anyway, that is my point of view so I will just leave it there.

Jeff

otis.drum · #30 Post by **otis.drum** » Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:21 pm

i am finding this discussion alarming, and i am hoping i don't get the answers i think i'm going to get from the following questions, but can i ask these couple of questions please.

what laws were the other hunters breaking, or perhaps why shouldn't they have been there?

do you require some kind of permit to hunt state forest in NSW?

if so how long has this been the case?

are we taking a steps in the direction (poor step in poor direction IMO) of america and their hunting laws?

Ozbow

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