Shooting cats and maybe dogs

[jape]

May I assume that if a cat is in the bush and 1/2 km or more from nearest property it is feral and legal to kill? Is there an accepted 'wandering' range or if it is uncollared and in the bush is it feral by definition? Were there any legal precedents In GG's case that apply? And how does this apply to uncollared dogs as ferals in Vic?

I consider a 46# recurve with 450gn woods and 125 gn Tuskers would be OK, any thoughts?

[TomMcDonald]

May I assume that if a cat is in the bush and 1/2 km or more from nearest property it is feral and legal to kill? Is there an accepted 'wandering' range or if it is uncollared and in the bush is it feral by definition? Were there any legal precedents In GG's case that apply? And how does this apply to uncollared dogs as ferals in Vic?

I consider a 46# recurve with 450gn woods and 125 gn Tuskers would be OK, any thoughts?

If an un-controlled cat or dog is in your rural property without permission, you go ahead and kill it. NOt sure about public land (just read that).
Wasn't GG's case reduced to merely an animal cruelty debacle?

[Coach]

Just make sure you dont make a smart comment like , " The only good Cat/Dog is a Dead one " Oh and use some common sense 500m from ya nearest house doesnt make it feral ,, uncontrolled maybe , but not feral You cant just kill a Dog or Cat 'cause its on ya property ,, it at least has to be attacking stock
Be kind to your neighbor

[ottis]

shootin dogs and cats ,come on mate doesent sound good. Anyone and i mean anyone who shot my dog or cat just because it was on somebodys property and not proven to be doing anything wrong would be in a world of trouble when i caught up to em. Theres plenty a pigs ,goats and bunnies around to satisfy peoples need to kill things.

[jape]

I was asking about what makes a creature feral and thus legal to shoot and really don't care what your point of view about shooting them is Ottis. I live in the bush and near farms and I see lambs and natives taken by them. They are vermin as far as I am concerned, if feral - and it isn't a need to kill, it is a choice.

[TomMcDonald]

shootin dogs and cats ,come on mate doesent sound good. Anyone and i mean anyone who shot my dog or cat just because it was on somebodys property and not proven to be doing anything wrong would be in a world of trouble when i caught up to em. Theres plenty a pigs ,goats and bunnies around to satisfy peoples need to kill things.

Gotta take better care of your pets.
If a farmer feels as if his produce or livestock is threatened in any way, then he has the rights.

[jape]

I have 30km of forest and also a large farming property I can walk on apart from my own six acres. I know the dogs owned locally and I know four properties next to mine are empty, weekenders. I have been driving and walking the tracks lately and have seen little sign of any animals but have seen an uncollared cat way out in the bush on more than one occasion. I have also heard a couple of dogs deep in the forest, probably chasing 'roos, and seen droppings from them. The definition of feral is quite loose and I wondered if others have looked deeper.
http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/dpi/nreninf.n ... EA00295282

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodivers ... index.html

http://www.environment.gov.au/biodivers ... bs/cat.pdf

[longbowinfected]

You pay taxes.
Without identifying the control agent / method, ask the various bodies what their legal opinions / interpretations are. That is a better step than interpreting for yourself.
Advise them that a plain English version is required.

I would not necessarily expect the most favourable response...but at least you checked.

Do not use arrows with your name, initials, favourite colour fletches or distinctive cresting....not trying to be sneaky just cautious.

My interpretation is.....consider your neighbour.....if it is a cat, live trap it or try first...take it to the RSPCA for micro chipping/return to owners [big lecture from RSPCA] and or destruction. If the cat comes back and owners do not give a toss.....over to you.

I have ducks and chickens....I leave the snakes and quolls alone but any rats, cats or dogs get sent off the first time they are seen in daylight. After that I live trap, even for rats and mice because half the time they are marsupial species/natives.

If there are dogs contact the local group whatever they are called/used to be Pasture Protection Board ......they do take action/or did when I contacted them.....thing about dogs in the wild is they hunt in packs and hold little fear of humans. Action has to be taken before it gets out of hand.

Kevin

[kerrille]

if a dog or cat is on a rural property where i come from its consided feral or rouge and will be shot without question if you cant look after them dont have them.

.....nev...

[timbo]

I am not a big lover of cats, I dont object to people keeping cats as pets as long as they contain it in their yard.

Any cat more then 20yards from the house is feral in my book.

Cheers Tim

[Nephew]

I once kept chooks here on the island until somebodies dogs got ahold of 'em. These little beggers used to run all over the place without supervision during the day. Thankfully, the owners have left . Heaps of people had tried to reason with them about the dogs, or even not so reasonably tell them to knock it off, but they just didn't listen. The dogs had even been taken away by the catchers for running wild, but they got them back. Cats are a bad problem for the natives here, too. Especially the curlews as they nest on the ground.
We have different rules here in the city and I'd be in real trouble had I taken it into my own hands to rid us of these pests. But I certainly understand why anyone would in the bush. I say once your certain your covered legally, Jape, rid the area of the problem.

[GrahameA]

For those who may have forgotten, or were not aware in the first place, these makes a sobering read:

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4396

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4398

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4406

[TomMcDonald]

For those who may have forgotten, or were not aware in the first place, these makes a sobering read:

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4396

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4398

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4406

See post number 2

"Wasn't GG's case reduced to merely an animal cruelty debacle?"

[ottis]

common sense jape, good old common sense if only a few more of us had a bit more of it.

[jape]

Common sense jape, good old common sense if only a few more of us had a bit more of it.

- well commonsense means if I do take one it will be without fanfare and all you lot would see would perhaps be a skin under some arrows in a pic one day for the discerning eye! But because of the very past that Grahame A has offered us the links to revisit, I wondered if any here had checked into the legalities more than I found in those links I posted. I like to know the word of the Law before i decide for myself. I shall write to my MP, she gets me answers!

[Dennis La Varenne]

Jape,

Here is a section from the Victoria Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act 1994 -

30 Owner of livestock able to destroy dog or cat found
at large near livestock
(1) The owner of any animals or birds kept for
farming purposes, any person authorised by the
owner or an authorised officer may destroy any
dog or cat found at large—
(a) in the place where the animals or birds are
confined; or
(b) if the animals or birds are tethered, in the
vicinity of the animals or birds.
(2) The owner, a person authorised by the owner or
authorised officer does not incur any civil or
criminal liability for acting under subsection (1).

Distance from premises or animal owner's property doesn't come into it in these circumstances, but there are lots of references to the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act throughout. The Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act 1994 does take into consideration that nuisance animals are humanely dealt with.

There has always been a provision in Victoria that declared noxious animals at large on public lands were able to be destroyed by any person under the provisions of the Catchment and Land Protection Act 1994.

The only silly aspect of all this is that hunters are not allowed to destroy noxious animals in National Parks even where they are allowed to hunt Deer. That is a prerogative allowed only to authorised officers of the Crown or their agents.

The following extract comes from page 29 of the 2008 Victorian Hunting Guide -

Pest Animals
This Guide is directed primarily at providing
information on hunting Victoria's game species.
For detailed information on hunting pest animals,
contact the DPI Customer Service Centre on 136
186. You may hunt pest animals on areas of State
forest and other unoccupied Crown land and areas
of private land, as long as you have the consent of
the land owner/manager.

Pest animals may not be hunted in State Game
Reserves, National Parks, State Parks, Forest Parks
or Nature Conservation Reserves at any time.
Please note that pest animals may be hunted at
Lake Albacutya Park in the north-west of the State.

The following species are declared to be pest
animals under the Catchment and Land Protection
Act 1994:
• Rabbits, hares, foxes, dingoes and their hybrids;
feral dogs, dogs run wild, feral goats, goats run
wild, feral pigs, pigs run wild. This list is not
exhaustive, but includes those species that are
commonly hunted.


Dennis La Varenne

[jape]

Thank you Dennis.

[TomMcDonald]

That's a pretty straight-forward explanation of the legislation.

[longbowinfected]

For Victoria it looks like you need to get letters from your neighbours/nearby land managers authorizing your actions because otherwise you have to be "farming" and it has to be specifically those "farm" animals. Whether farming has a strict legal interpretation might be quite significant.

Kevin

[kerrille]

where i live the farmers and station owners give open slather on all ferals all you have to do is let them know your going on their property.


....nev...

[Dennis La Varenne]

Through the Thread Chairman to Kevin,

Under the provisions of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Act here in Victoria, upon further reading last night, ferals and nuisance animals in residential areas must be trapped in a humane and legal manner as prescribed by that Act, which is something new to me.

On another thread, I posted that I would have simply shot them in my backyard believing that if I did it in a humane way and without jeopardising the public safety and damaging property, I was legally covered. It appears not so after reading through this Act.

And Nev,
Your activity is clearly covered under Section 30 of the Act because you are acting as an agent of the landowner with his permission.

Dennis La Varenne

[longbowinfected]

The laws are quite similar here in NSW......hence my comments above about trapping.
In NSW if you are on someone's property even though you are allowed and you do not have that in writing you can be in a lot of trouble.
I carry a photocopy of the letter and other docs/licenses in the zip pocket in the crown of my Dry as a bone hat.
I have permission from a number of property owners and it is the form of a hand written letter on property letterhead. These are needed for gun licensing in NSW so I get permission for both gun shooting and using a bow. Never had a knockback on using the bow when they know you. I always ask them to come for a cuppa and check out the gear, let them see us shoot at a butt.
When I first meet a property owner I ask them to give me a list of their rules, verbally or in writing. I then draw up a letter detailing this and agreeing to their rules. I sign it and next time I am up I ask them to give me a letter of authority. The farmers I have dealt with over the years seem to respect that commitment even if it is only a short paragraph or two.

I always bring them something for their pot, something for their dogs and ask if there are any jobs they need a hand with before we go.

Kevin

[Coach]

I have permission from a number of property owners and it is the form of a hand written letter on property letterhead.

What if the landowner doesnt have a "Letterhead" ? This is getting ridiculous dude .
I have a few properties that I hunt on and have no written permission on a letterhead . So does that mean I dont have permission in the eyes of the law , even if the owner says " I let Jeff on here to hunt " ?

[longbowinfected]

You have permission if it is verbal and your word is your bond. Most people would know that you are allowed on these properties and they probably all know you.
I am happy to be able to prove it on the spot if needed.
The properties I hunt on are not mine.
The owners are often away as they own a number of properties. The ones we mainly go on have share croppers who are rotated.
I do not know all the folk that could be on those properties as well as from time to time people come in from the road without permission. Each of the owners have requested that we check anyone out. Each person allowed on these properties has a similar letter. The owner's prerogative and it works well. Each letter authorizes each of the authorized people to move unauthorized people on. Anyone acting suspicously gets a photo taken and one of their rego.

A fair bit of duffing has taken place in this area and if you get bailed up by the stock squad the letters resolve any issues. Each of the properties is surrounded by National Parks and we regularly get asked questions by Pest Species Officers........the owners' system, they are happy and because we comply we can come and go as we please and have done so for twenty years.

Kevin