Wrist Slap , Not ARM Slap With a Longbow

[kimall]

Apart from the canting I shoot recurve,longbow and compound all the same grip.Thumb and pointer finger around the handle and the other fingers folded into a soft fist and not on the handle at all.Some trad bows may not like that so I just dont shoot them as I feel it is a bow design prob that wants to make them jump out of the hand or twist in the hand.
Cheers KIM

[Coach]

Apart from the canting I shoot recurve,longbow and compound all the same grip.Thumb and pointer finger around the handle and the other fingers folded into a soft fist and not on the handle at all.Some trad bows may not like that so I just dont shoot them as I feel it is a bow design prob that wants to make them jump out of the hand or twist in the hand.
Cheers KIM

EXACTLY !!!

To HUE ,, who gives damn what Graham thinks All the bows I have , CAN be shot with the same grip , I just have to put an armguard on for the 'Curve and the Longbow , and they all work
If you have a few bows and they all need a different type of grip , your shooting is going to be crap ... sort of like a Jack of all trades and Master of none thing
I am quite proud that I can swap and change and still shoot all bows well ,, I doubt there would be many that could say that

[woody]

If I was getting wrist slap, I would increase the brace height. It will slow the bow a little, but so does belting the string into a thick leather arm guard. I have a mate who is a pretty good longbow hunter, his bow has a 9 or 10 inch brace height and he doesnt wear an arm guard...ever.

IMO if you are "belting the string into a thick leather arm guard" or having to use "9 or 10 inch brace height" then you are doing something wrong and it isn't to do with brace height alone, if at all. Using such a high brace height with a longbow is not the answer IMO as the performance loss would be substantial because you loose 3 to 4 inches of power stoke. I would never suggest anyone to raise their brace height to that degree to solve a problem of the string hitting the inner side of their bow arm. Look elsewhere for the real cause of the problem as it surely isn't a brace height problem.

It would also reduce hand shock, and the tendency to torque the bow and inconsistent form because you are using a "style" designed to reduce pain instead of promoting repeatability.

After more than a few years shooting longbows Woody I can't agree with this comment. A normal brace height for a longbow (usually 6 - 7 inches) will not cause the first couple of problems you mention above. The use of an armguard solves the last problem - yes even a little contact with the inner bow arm can cause pain. The need to use an armguard when shooting a longbow is considered normal IMO, as an inherent part of the longbow design is that you use a brace height that is lower than with most other designs.

Recapping, a mild string slapping of your inner wrist when shooting a longbow is quite normal. However if the string is really slapping the archer's inner bow arm hard then he/she most likely has a form problem rather than a brace height problem, again IMO.

Jeff

Jeff,
If you saw my mate shoot, you would not say he is doing anything wrong............
and a lot of pigs die from his set up. I have seen a lot of long bow shooters ( and a lot of guys who think they can shoot a long bow) and this bloke would not be embarrassed by anyone in this country.

Have you considered my thinking about arm guard slap and where the arrow parts company from the string.

I am not a big believer in "normal" but a big believer in what ever works for you. Works being the operative word.

If you are getting a good result, at a 6 or 7 inch brace height, that's wonderful, but I still believe that anyone with a string slap issues would see some benefit from a higher brace height.

[Coach]

MMM,, you two can argue/debate this one out . I suppose if it works for one , then fine .
All I know is ,, that an armguard stopped the string hurting me ,, I can hit what I am aiming at , so thats about all I want . Now I am going to take this Longbow out and hopefully put the arrow where it counts on a goat . Even though it is a pissant 45# Longbow

[Stickbow Hunter]

Woody,

Your mate might be able to shoot well but it doesn’t mean he isn’t doing something wrong or holding the bow in an odd manner. If he has to have a 10 inch brace height then I maintain there is something odd there somewhere.

I commented because I had a concern for those you were giving advice to. Giving advice to raise the brace height in itself is not a problem but making it seem like there are no problems with going to such brace height extremes as your mate is using is misleading IMO and my post was to voice my misgivings of that advice.

Another thing to consider is something longbow steve said in an earlier post:

I would be concerned for the longevity of the bow braced that high.

In order to get such a high brace height one would need to use a considerably shorter string which in turn would make the limbs of the bow bend much more than they were intended to. That is one of the reasons manufactures have recommended brace heights.

Jeff

[Coach]

I commented because I had a concern for those you were giving advice to.

So , ya saying it was bad advice then
It does seem it was dubious advice ,, I even acknowledge that .
Sorry Woody Longbows just dont have a history of having a brace height of 10 " . Even my compound has only a 7" B/H

[woody]

Jeff,
My advice was to do what works and basically,a higher brace will reduce string slap.

I know you longbow blokes are set in your ways of doing things, and I'm not telling you how you must shoot your bow. Shoot as you please, I don't care how you shoot.

But I am amused at how you reject out of hand, an alternative that works so well for someone else............

[woody]

I commented because I had a concern for those you were giving advice to.

So , ya saying it was bad advice then
It does seem it was dubious advice ,, I even acknowledge that .
Sorry Woody Longbows just dont have a history of having a brace height of 10 " . Even my compound has only a 7" B/H

Coach,
I have 2 nice old Bear compounds, that in their day were "state of the art" that have a 9.5" and 10" brace height, but this has nothing to do with long bows, or modern compound design, unless your talking of Hoyts designed for finger shooting, which surprisingly have high brace heights.

Fred Bear used to shoot his recurves with very high brace heights, and actually recommended an 8" brace height on most of his Kodiak models that I'm familiar with, but I personally liked about 7.5".

Most of the reasons given why not, aren't reasons at all, apart from departing from whats seen as a common practice.

If some one would like to talcum powder his arm guard to determine degree of string strike, or shoot his bow through a chronagraph at different brace heights, or shoot for groups at different brace heights and prove it doesnt work or improve for them and prove I'm an idiot, I would take this discussion more seriously.

[gilnockie]

If you grip the bow as you would grip a hammer, the string will be very close to your arm. When you draw you will try to move the bow in the hand and when you release the bow it will tend to snap back to its original position. This may be the cause of hitting you on the wrist, but normally it would cause you to hit your arm, hence the need for an arm guard.

Try holding the grip with the tips of the fingers only. This is conducive to the recommended "relaxed grip". The string will be as much as two inches from your arm. This method of holding allows the bow to pivot slightly in the bow hand so you don't torque the limbs. This grip also angles the arm away from the string.

If you are holding the bow correctly, when it is fully drawn you can move the drawing hand away from your face and the bow will pivot in your hand as you do so. Don't try to grip the bow hard. Let it follow your drawing hand as you draw it and let it return to the point where there is a noticeable gap between the string and your arm when it is released.

I have used this grip for several years and I no longer wear an armguard. Yet shortly after I started to shoot the bow I nearly quit archery because the string slap was so bad each time I shot the bow my bow arm was bruised and painful mess. I also use this grip on my compound and target recurves.

[Stickbow Hunter]

I know you longbow blokes are set in your ways of doing things, and I'm not telling you how you must shoot your bow. Shoot as you please, I don't care how you shoot.

But I am amused at how you reject out of hand, an alternative that works so well for someone else............

Woody,

It has nothing to do with being set in my ways and I can’t see that anyone has rejected your mate’s alternative high brace height idea out of hand. If anything it is you who is rejecting out of hand comments from the majority in this thread.

Most of the reasons given why not, aren't reasons at all, apart from departing from whats seen as a common practice.

That is straight out wrong. Advice has been given from at least three bowmakers; these being Steve, Glenn and myself regarding correct brace height for the design of bow we are talking about. You were also given very sound reasons based on facts why your mates brace height was not a good idea – loss of power stroke (approx 15% in fact) and how having such a high brace height could be detrimental to the longevity of the bow.

If some one would like to talcum powder his arm guard to determine degree of string strike, or shoot his bow through a chronagraph at different brace heights, or shoot for groups at different brace heights and prove it doesnt work or improve for them and prove I'm an idiot, I would take this discussion more seriously.

I am not inferring, or trying to prove, that anyone in this discussion is an idiot and nor is anyone else from what I am reading. Quite frankly this whole brace height, power stroke thing has already been proven and if you wanted try doing some research on the net I’m sure it would back up what has been said by us in this thread.

Personally in my 22 years of making bows another bowmaking mate and I have spent many hours in front of a chrono testing all manner of things such as the effects of limb design, bow lengths, arrow weights, brace heights, string materials, etc etc, so I do feel I am qualified to give comments on the above subject. If you don’t wish to take what I and others have said seriously so be it but I do hope others reading it may see some value in such advice.

Jeff

[Glenn]

Coach one thing that may reduce string slap is to open your stance a bit if you are not already doing it. If you are a right handed shooter and you are standing side on to the target bring your back foot around to the right a bit to square you up to the target, this may help you but it may shorten your draw length a bit as well. Move your right foot 6 inches at a time and see what happens. I have shot this way for years and have rarely hit my arm even when shooting selfbows with 5.5 inches of brace height...Glenn...

[Coach]

Glenn ,, as you know I have been in archery for awhile ,, and was a Coach ,, but it doesnt matter what I do ,, apart from a really weird grip , I still get string slap . As long as I have the armguard on ,, all is fine , so I'll keep doing it that way . Thanks for the advice

[Glenn]

Sorry Coach, I had forgotten you were a Coach, I should have know that from your user name, maybe you could give me some coaching on target panic someday...Glenn...

[kimall]

I thought we fixed your target panic on the w/end Glenn.
Coach I will be sending the bow next week so your arm slapping probs will be over for a while.
Cheers KIM

[Glenn]

Kim if Coach hits his arm with that brute he wont have an arm left ...Glenn...

[Coach]

OK Kim , cheers , I look forward to it If I get string slap with your bow ,, should I say so , or just shut up ?
Oh ,, and has it been blooded yet ?

Glenn ,, Target Panic is a mind game ,,, dont "think" about it

Going to have to get my username changed ,, as I have left the Coaching game now .

[kimall]

"Brute,Brute" how dare you Glenn I thought we are mates? It was fun to try those 8 grain per pound arrows though not often I get over 200 on the chrono.
Cheers KIM

[kimall]

Didnt mean to ignore you there Coach I was blinded with rage at Glenns harsh remarks.
If it hits you on the arm I def want to hear about it and I will laugh loudly.
And no it has not been blooded yet last chance this w/end or it is up to you.
Cheers KIM

[Nephew]

OK Kim , cheers , I look forward to it If I get string slap with your bow ,, should I say so , or just shut up ?
Oh ,, and has it been blooded yet ?

Glenn ,, Target Panic is a mind game ,,, dont "think" about it

Going to have to get my username changed ,, AS I HAVE LEFT THE COACHING GAME NOW .

News to me!! Since when?? Need I remind you of the P.M.s I get every time I "overthink" things?? Lee Mathews goes easier on his teams than you do with me, and that's saying something, mate!

If you do end up slapping yourself on the forearm with this bow Kim has made, I WANT PICS!! I could do with a giggle.

[Coach]

If it hits you on the arm I def want to hear about it and I will laugh loudly.
And no it has not been blooded yet last chance this w/end or it is up to you.
Cheers KIM

If it bites me ,, after all your hype about a "proper longbow handle" etc ,, I will gladly cook my steak over it after I have started a fire with it
If it hasnt been blooded yet ,, I will do my best ,, even if I have to stab one of the locals with the limb tip

[Coach]

If you do end up slapping yourself on the forearm with this bow Kim has made, I WANT PICS!! I could do with a giggle.

You shut up ,, or I'll SLAP you ,, then I will have a giggle ,, while you THINK about it

[Nephew]

[longbowinfected]

Jeff, be careful what you wish for.....if that bow is so powerful the first blood may be yours!!!!!!!!!!!
Nahhh, just playing with your head....
no aspersions to you or the new bow coming......enjoy.

Kevin

[Antonio]

Like it was said before the first and secound finger tips touch the thumb finger tips .the thunb palm is were the handle pushes .elbow horisontal to the side .this forces the bow into a slight cant .the elbow is slightly bent to the side never pointing to the floor allways to the side .works well for me .
the side of the arm 113lbs cushy as a baby .no stringslap,nice


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp017W8UoNM

[Glenn]

"Brute,Brute" how dare you Glenn I thought we are mates? It was fun to try those 8 grain per pound arrows though not often I get over 200 on the chrono.
Cheers KIM

Just trying to toughen you up a bit Kim, when you make bows you have to be prepared for some critizisum ...Glenn...

[Glenn]

[quote Glenn ,, Target Panic is a mind game ,,, dont "think" about it [/quote]

I think you are spot on ther Coach, my target panic is from me thinking about the draw too much. Kim pulled me up about that on the weekend. Instinctive shooting should be just that Instinctive.
I had a mate years ago who shot a recurve with a high brace height and he use to get a black bruse from half way down his bicep mucle and on the forearm. It was just the way his body was built, there was no way it could be overcome for him, we treid for years but nothing worked. In the end he just he just had to shoot with an armguard that covered that whole area of his arm...Glenn...

[woody]

I know you longbow blokes are set in your ways of doing things, and I'm not telling you how you must shoot your bow. Shoot as you please, I don't care how you shoot.

But I am amused at how you reject out of hand, an alternative that works so well for someone else............

Woody,

It has nothing to do with being set in my ways and I can’t see that anyone has rejected your mate’s alternative high brace height idea out of hand. If anything it is you who is rejecting out of hand comments from the majority in this thread.

Most of the reasons given why not, aren't reasons at all, apart from departing from whats seen as a common practice.

That is straight out wrong. Advice has been given from at least three bowmakers; these being Steve, Glenn and myself regarding correct brace height for the design of bow we are talking about. You were also given very sound reasons based on facts why your mates brace height was not a good idea – loss of power stroke (approx 15% in fact) and how having such a high brace height could be detrimental to the longevity of the bow.

If some one would like to talcum powder his arm guard to determine degree of string strike, or shoot his bow through a chronagraph at different brace heights, or shoot for groups at different brace heights and prove it doesnt work or improve for them and prove I'm an idiot, I would take this discussion more seriously.

I am not inferring, or trying to prove, that anyone in this discussion is an idiot and nor is anyone else from what I am reading. Quite frankly this whole brace height, power stroke thing has already been proven and if you wanted try doing some research on the net I’m sure it would back up what has been said by us in this thread.

Personally in my 22 years of making bows another bowmaking mate and I have spent many hours in front of a chrono testing all manner of things such as the effects of limb design, bow lengths, arrow weights, brace heights, string materials, etc etc, so I do feel I am qualified to give comments on the above subject. If you don’t wish to take what I and others have said seriously so be it but I do hope others reading it may see some value in such advice.

Jeff

Jeff,
If I ever decide to make a longbow, I will seek your advice, but when I need to tune a bow so it shoots sweet to my personal liking, probably not .......... but I will agree to disagree on this one.
Woody.

[woody]

Just out of curiousity, how high is this blokes brace height

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8UJ5PGzu1PE&NR=1

[otis.drum]

he uses 7" i think. i'm pretty sure he quotes it in one of his other videos. shows him doing the old thumb trick.

[woody]

he uses 7" i think. i'm pretty sure he quotes it in one of his other videos. shows him doing the old thumb trick.

Otis,
If that a 7" brace height on the video, Byron must be a dwarf with extremely large hands...lol