Bow tiller

[matt61]

Bows tillered to be shot three under or split fingered,I shoot three under and have one bow tillered for that and one tillered for split finger,but try to shoot it three under.The bow tillered for three under definitly shoots a lot better for me.All the American bowyers have the different tiller choice when you order a new bow, you must specify.Then you hear other shooters say its a load of crap,set the nocking point for either release and she,s apples.What do you guys think.
cheers
Matt

[Coach]

I'm not a bowyer at all , but I do know that my Bear Grizzly ,,which is a production bow and I assume is tillered for a split finger shooter , shoots like crap when I try to shoot 3 fingers under , it is also noisier . So I would say in my opinion , it would make a difference . In saying that though ,, perhaps some bows are different and will shoot well either way .
Hows that for a no answer

[otis.drum]

like coach, i'm no bowyer, but all the bows i have, bought and made, shoot differently for the two draws. hand shock is the main thing i notice, and it is servere.

i am interested to see what others have found.

[longbow steve]

Hi Matt, I am tillering one presently for 3 under and yes it is requiring less tiller to quieten it down although my 3 under release is sad .
I am cross checking with super imposed photos and they too are suggesting less tiller. Steve

[Coach]

. hand shock is the main thing i notice, and it is servere.

.

Yes , that is another thing as well .

[matt61]

There must be something to it because all the American bowyers ask you to specify three under or split finger release when you order a new bow,they don't do it just for the hell of it. I could see the difference between the two bows when I was shooting them tonight.
Matt.

[Stickbow Hunter]

I have always tillered differently for split than for three under with my bows - positive tiller for split and even for three under.

Jeff

[Reece]

IIRC you have about even tiller for 3 under and about 1/8" - 3/8" for split. I'll see if I can find where I read that. I think that's for longbow, I'm not too sure if it applies to recurve.

I've only just been introduced to three under and I'm finding it suits me.

[ivorycollector]

I am very keen to know what do people mean when they say their bows are tillered for split vs 3 under? What would be the measurements? I supposed one way to find out is to measure the tillers on their bows. My bows are even to 2/8" positive tillers. I experiment with different settings on each bow that I make. The setting I would opt for often is highly depending on the type (ie LB or recurve), NTN, if the limbs are equal length, the height of the shelf from centre, grip style (how a person "grips" his bow -high, low or medium) and the shooter. My latest TDLB is even tillered, whisper quiet shooting 3 under. The measured tillers please of your bow, anyone? Cheers, Siewho.

[matt61]

One thing that I thought about after your replies fellas is that with my bows,to look at them I cannot tell
for what release they are tillered.There is nothing written on them, my Cascade is tillered three under because I ordered it new and specified ,my other bows I bought secondhand and have to take the sellers word.Is anything done to the riser on T/D recurve for example or is it just done in the limbs for the differernt release.
Matt

[matt_d]

G'day Matt.. You'll definitely experience more noise and handshock shooting a bow that is not tillered for your chosen release. The bow will also behave ever so slightly different in your hand as you draw, and is very obvious when you look at a bow that is out of tiller and has a long stabilizer fitted. As far as accuracy goes - I think tiller has very little to do with it.
Take a look at barebow recurve shooters who are skilled in stringwalking, look at how far out of tiller they are pulling their bows and then look at some of the incredible scores they shoot.
Cheers,
Matt

[longbow steve]

An interesting post on another site and the whole thread http://www.piratesofarchery.net/bb/view ... f=8&t=7871

Re: "Timing" Limbs
by Gino Bruno on Wed Aug 12, 2009 11:19 pm

stag- what got me into doing it that way was when i started shooting 3 under...... for the life of me, i couldn't figure out why it was louder than split. didn't matter how the limbs were timed and/or tillered..... 3 under is louder. the only thing i could come up with is that it is like a mini dry-fire. when you release at 3 under, the string is tight on the upper end of the nock but there is a gap that "snaps" forward until the string is tight against the bottom of the nock. at that point, my pea-brain's line of reasoning was that the lower limb was probably working harder/faster until the string was tight agains the nock but that extra momentum had to account for something..... after all, i am consistently 3fps faster when shooting 3 under than split. it is not scientific but it seemed to allow me to time limbs a little quicker.

i hear ya about the small tweaks. it is pretty amazing what you notice after you have done this a "few" times.

[Gringa Bows]

i shoot three under and my bows are even tiller,thats how they've come off the form and finish so i leave them like that and they shoot good for me ......................Rod

[kimall]

When I tiller the bow I draw it in the same posi that it is going to be drawn so it tells me which limb needs to be stiffer.
However even how you put pressure on the bow with your bow hand will effect tiller so it will not be the same for everyone even if they shoot the same finger wise.
Cheers KIM

[matt61]

This might sound like a dumb question but how do I tell a bow is made to shoot three under by looking at it.
Matt

[matt_d]

Matt the only way you can know for sure is to measure the tiller of the bow.. Measure from the ends of the fadeouts to the string on both limbs and work out the difference between the two. A 3 under tillered bow should have an equal distance top & bottom and split finger will have anything up to 3-5mm more on the top limb in most cases.
Cheers,
Matt

[otis.drum]

Matt the only way you can know for sure is to measure the tiller of the bow.. Measure from the ends of the fadeouts to the string on both limbs and work out the difference between the two. A 3 under tillered bow should have an equal distance top & bottom and split finger will have anything up to 3-5mm more on the top limb in most cases.
Cheers,
Matt

i take it this is for bows with equal length limbs and a shelf in the centre?

what happens when you shorten one limb or the shelf is above centre?

[Stickbow Hunter]

i take it this is for bows with equal length limbs and a shelf in the centre?

The shelf isn't likely to be in the centre with equal length limbs.

what happens when you shorten one limb or the shelf is above centre?

Pretty much as Matt said IMO.

Jeff

[matt61]

Matt-d So what you are saying for a three under bow the measurement would be for example..top limb 147 mm...bottom limb 147mm and for a split finger bow it would be top limb 147 mm... bottom limb 143 mm.
Matt

[matt_d]

G'day Matt... yes mate that is a pretty good example of what you might expect the differently tillered bows to measure.
Otis - Sometimes a bow that is designed to be shot off an elevated rest may need to be re-tillered if it is shot off the shelf, or vice versa. I own a bow like this, and when I shoot it 3 under it needs to be negatively tillered. I believe Kevin (longbowinfected) once said he also shoots a negatively tillered bow.. Don't know anything about his bow but it could well have assymetrical limbs.
Cheers,
Matt

[longbow steve]

I believe Kevin (longbowinfected) once said he also shoots a negatively tillered bow.. Don't know anything about his bow but it could well have assymetrical limbs.
Cheers,
Matt

Kevin confuses assymetry with negative tiller, his bow has a shorter lower limb and positive tiller. I stopped correcting him a while back hope he doesnt read this. Steve

[matt61]

The bow I have is a T/D recurve split finger, can it be retillered to shoot three under.
Matt

[longbow steve]

Hi Matt, How does the bow shoot with 3 under? Consider string walkers and how far down they draw on certain shots.
If you do want to adjust, consider trying some sort of shim adjustment to increase the stiffness of the upper limb until you are happy with tune/noise and then adjust if you still feel it is necessary.
You will lose some poundage through adjustment. Steve

[otis.drum]

what about building up your shelf a little?

[longbow steve]

what about building up your shelf a little?

Thats a better suggestion . Steve

[matt61]

Steve.. The bow shoots not to bad, but it does not shoot as good as my Cascade bow which is factory tillered for three under.I will give Otis,s suggestion a go and see what that does.
Matt

[kimall]

If you are a person that holds the bow firm then try to push the top of the bow away form you a bit when you shoot to load the top limb a bit more and see if that makes a differance.That may tell you if the tiller is not suit. for you.
Cheers KIM

[matt61]

How much is the tiller of a bow effected by your draw length, is the tiller effected by drawing shorter or longer than the standard 28 inches.
Matt