Bow Weight for comp shooting

[danceswithdingoes]

Considering serious competition with the stick but I need to drop some bow weight (and body weight ) any concensus on what current target shooters are using please? BTW I have t-rex arms and a 26" draw

[Brumbies Country]

Hi Jason

Are you talking target target (Fremantle) or your usual fare,3D target?

I haven't been shooting Fremantles of late but I get to talk to some of the guys who are shooting good scores and they seem to prefer 48-55lbs. I've been largely playing round with 30-40lb longbows and 40 lbs selfbows last couple of years. Have just returned to my 48lbs Joe Vardon LB (and Foros VA shafts circa 450 grains all up) and am impressed with how flat it is in comparison with the lower weights, only thing is I'm currently shooting high on 3D targets at ABA distances with the increased poundage. I'd gone to lower poundages because of shoulder problems but am now finding I can handle 48lbs if I warm up with some flexing and also do a bit of the same between shots. The higher poundage is certainly more forgiving of indifferent release than lower poundages.

Having said all that I recall Mick Turner coming back from Europe and relaying how well the Swedes were shooting FITA field with 30lb longbows and timber shafts.

Simon

[longbowinfected]

I tried using different draw weight longbows for different types of events and came to a number of hard earned conclusions that I think are generally relevant.
I would further explain this by stating my personal parameters.
Do not be offended Ding but I have been told by many that we are very similar in appearance and build.
I am left handed, built like a brick shithouse with broad back, big shoulders and arms but worn in for 55 years, using Mediterranean release and under the chin anchor point and gap shooting every distance, using a 49# flat laid boo bow, 27.5 inch draw :
* Arthur Fisk taught me that your muscles need to work hard to shoot your best....you need to shoot the bow that is just a few pounds under the heaviest you can draw comfortably for a small number of shots. If you overbow you injure yourself, but if you drop back a bit you can shoot twice as many arrows on your busiest day, your strength and form improves. So if I shoot a Freemantle 144 arrows plus practice ends, double that for your big practice sessions and record your score. If you shoot for form only, remove the target face. Steve Farrell challenged me to go 6 # higher u to the 49# with a faster rig and it worked out very well. If you want to shoot 60 metres well, practice 80 and 70 metres.....60 is easy then.
* you need around 50# to send timbers and alloys as flat and as quickly as possible for anything over 40 metres and especially to shoot flat tight groups at 50 and 60 metres [for clout about 55# if using timbers]
*I get the best results by using the one bow all the time for everything and by doing this I have added 200 extra points out of 1440 in a Freemantle. I now shoot low to mid 700s every time and I expect to get to the 800 mark soon
* bowsling really helps
* matched sets of arrows. Steve Farrell got his woods made thinner but the same mass as his alloys [Wallace Woods]. I do not go that far because I like making my own at a lesser cost. Got to say that Wallace Woods are great though. For me I know that there is a half target difference in my gap for woods and alloys that I shoot. There is about 100 grain difference in mass so I just adjust the number of coloured rings. About a 25% difference in mass equals about a half target difference for me.
* when you get over 43# you need to shoot at least 30 arrows well every second day plus a big shoot on the weekend, whereas under that draw weight that is not as critical
* 10 grain per pound or slightly under works really well for timbers for field with 125 grain screw on brass points when using timbers.....very accurate, stands up to wind etc in the worst weather up to 40 metres
* about 6.5 grains per pound works for me with 1916 Jazz alloys with 125 grain points
* if you shoot a deflex/reflex longbow you could get the same results using a lighter bow but for mine it is like using a recurve in that they are very unforgiving and quite twitchy

just a few thoughts

Kevin

[Stephen Georgiou]

hello dances,
use the weight that you can happily handle for twice the number of arrows you would normally shoot in competition without fatigue.
The cast of the arrow has more to do with the grains per pound you are shooting than the poundage. A 40lb bow shooting an arrow @ 5 grains per pound will be much faster than a 70lb bow shooting 650 grain arrows. -Typically speaking.
If you are shooting FITA targets aluminium arrows are the go. Go as light as you are allowed and put more tip weight than normal to give you a front of center balance of 20% this will give you a really stable arrow. I think FITA allows a ratio of 5 grain per pound(check first), so you can get away with shooting some fairly light arrows and end up with a fast setup.

The other way of looking at it is to get advice from Joe Vardon on the ideal setup. (although I have never met the man his record stands him as a expert in the field.)
have fun.

[longbowinfected]

Joe Vardon is a truly great exponent of longbow but Steve Farrell beat his Fremantle Record by 1 two years ago in Victoria at Morwell, I watched them shoot that day and it was a fantastic exhibition by both....but your points are entirely valid Stephen.

[danceswithdingoes]

Thanks, I'm getting fatigued too early with my current stable of 55# bows (about 49# on the fingers) I too wish to learn to use the same gear for 3D and FITA. I'm rapidly determining that in order to reach the dizzy heights of the top longbow shooters I need a shooting method as instinctive is proving too 'hit and miss' (literaly) Niels Thilen has been spending some time with me but firmly believes I cannot maintain the high anchor he shoots at my current draw weight. He shoots a 44# widow with a 6 strand string and shoots regular 80-90's on the 3D circuit. Simon, good to hear from you again old mate.

[longbowinfected]

Ding,
I gap shoot for everything. For me it is much more consistent....especially over a long day and a lot of shots. I can shoot instinctively with a split view for close shots but my gap method if practised a lot and used al the time with the same bow works the best for me.
I found my point of the arrow dead on gold distance and then worked on different parts of my bow on parts of the target, the butt or supports or even the ground.
Because I shoot mediterranean loose with an under the chin anchor the long distances are quite easy. I selected different features all the way in on a 122 face.
When I got that sorted I put an 80 face centred on the 122 face and noted the different ring colours to shoot especialy at 40, 35, 30, 25, 20.
I then repeated this with every face and distance into 5 metres for a bugs eye.
At 65 metres was my point on gold for 49#, 27.5 inch alloy about 320 grain, 70 metres my point on about a foot on top of the target butt 60 metres point on to half way up the target butt legs and so on. I use features such as the top of my gradual top curve of the sight window, half way down the sight window and so on.
For each of these parts of the bow there are no real sharp defined portions but it works. For each feature there can be three different parts of the target butt so you sort of get about 9 different gap points all on the butt.
As long as you keep the same draw, the same nocking point, and the same brace height, consistent anchor [check these every time] you can progress because of your consistent foundation.
If we were allowed to face walk our scores would be even higher.

If you anchor under the chin it might mean a difference in your draw length/weight and you might have to retune your set up a wee bit.

[Brumbies Country]

Gap shooting certainly should be more systematic when you get marked FITA distances and shorter unmarked 3D and ABA distances but with unmarked FITA (out to 40m) and particularly ABA out to 48m can be quite hard to estimate distance (FITA field you can use the guaging method). With the longer ABA shots I've been grouped with experienced sighted compound shooter recently and I note their comments about certain targets and they can be out quite a bit in their distance estimation but they get away with it with high speed flat trajectory compounds. With a relatively slow longbow gap shooting those longer unmarked distances your distance estimation has to be pretty spot on.

Larry Yien in the Master of the Barebow 2, in shooting longbow IFAA (all marked distances out to 80 yards) relies on gap shooting, but at the same time he talks about it becoming instinctive with practice.

Simon

[GrahameA]

Hi Ding

I too wish to learn to use the same gear for 3D and FITA.

My :$0:02.

You will find life interetsing as you swap from discipline to discpline. It is great to be able to stand up neatly on a FITA range where you know the distance, etc., and take multiple shots.

That system is a disaster when you are doing a speed shoot and you are trying to get aimed shots away - at around 6 in 30sec's.

And then there is the beautiful shots in Trad' Tournaments where you have to have the bow horizontal so you do not hit the trees - and it is a single arrow at an unknown distance.

So I would suggest you stick with one format for a while and not jump all over the place.

Nil's is good, and I mean "real good". I would listen carefully to what he says as he has the runs on the board.

[longbowinfected]

None of the AA longbowers I shoot with are affected in the slightest when shooting unmarked field.....we all go much better. The few times where I have shot field unmarked day 1 and marked day 2 my scores have been 20% higher for day 1 unmarked, yet if I shoot two days of marked field my second day is always 10% better. If you practice estimating distances all the time you can cope.
I do not care or notice any problems with 3D, FITA target any distance, FITA field or even indoor using the same bow and gap shooting for all, even at trad shoots including moving targets. With speed shooting I recognize the obvious in that with mediterranean, under chin and tab that it is better to consistently get of 4 tens than 6 dodgy shots.

All said and done, IMO even gap shooting with subsequent corrections for site conditions is really close to instinctive shooting using the split window process.
If your first shot hits the mark your follow up shots are instinctively copied as long as you stay "in the zone"

One of the reasons I like using timber arrows at FITA field besides the fact that the "feel" is awesome is that when using heavier timber arrows, all of my gap aiming points are on the target face for every distance and consequently my highest scores are with timber arrows.

Like all things do what works best for you but do it a lot, the ame way and things magicaly go better because your body automatically takes over subconsciously.

Kevin