Top five tequniques in the transition to trad

[jc_anthro]

Hi All,

I'm new to this site, and I'm certainly aware that there is a massive array of threads about or touching on technique in "the campfires" but I wondered if I could lay down a little challenge of summation for those who have been around longer than I have.

I've been shooting compound and a bit of recurve for a few years. I've decided to get myself off the "wheels" and have lashed out and bought myself a longbow (wedgetail from Wildwood, so I hope the recommendations are right). What I was hoping was that I could tempt some of the members (no doubt quite a few a taken the same journey from compound to trad) to lay down what they consider to be the top five points of technical significance in this transition? What are a few of the do and don'ts, common errors etc?

Hopefully this would be a useful starting point for those entering taditional shooting, and who like myself, may have limited access to coaching and clubs.

Thanks

[ichiban]

1. get used to being slaped in the wrist

[Mick Smith]

Hi mate and welcome to the site.

Here's my five ...

(1) Don't overbow yourself. Holding the full weight of a trad bow at full draw is a lot different to only pulling through the peak weight of a compound. This seems to be a common mistake.

(2) Don't be too discouraged when you find that it's difficult to be constantly accurate initially. It takes time and lots of practice to shoot well instinctively, 3 months at least.

(3) Concentrate on your form, more than on accuracy. Learn to release smoothly. Try to keep your string hand in contact with your anchor, even after the release. (most compounders use a release) Of course, it will be impossible to maintain a perfect anchor once you've released, but it's important for your hand to recoil in a straight line away from the bow. Plucking the string, ie, unintentionally pulling the string away from your anchor just prior to release is a very common reason for missing shots.

(4) Keep your bow arm nice and solid, even after the shot. (yeah, I know it's important for compound shooters too)

(5) Concentrate on the 'spot' you wish to hit. You must concentrate on a tiny dot. You almost need to burn a hole in it with your eyes.

I haven't shot a compound for over 20 years, so my memories might be a bit rusty.

Mick

[GrahameA]

Morning Mick

(3) ... Try to keep your string hand in contact with your anchor, even after the release. (most compounders use a release)

IMO that is questionable. For your hand to remain "in contact with your anchor, even after the release" means you have no "back tension" otherwise the hand would move back and have in effect a very dead release. Whilst there have been succesful archers who have had a dead release there is a significant body of opinion that a dead release is not an optimum release.

If you try and stop the hand from moving back so that remains "in contact with your anchor, even after the release" I am of the opinion that it will cause inconsistency issues.

[longbowinfected]

More info required.....what and where do you intend to shoot?

1. try both and master both gap and instinctive styles. Gap works better for a greater number of arrows at distances from 40 metres and out

2. do not fall into the trap where you forget that in the beginning with the other styles you had to practice a lot and killed a lot of arrows

3. Accept the fact that it will probably take longer to learn this caper and at the end you would be proud to average around 6.6 if you are good at distance and accept the accolades if you an average around 8 [target]

4. do not overbow.....match your recurve draw weight to start with

5. use the same bow for everything

6. use a bowsling.....stops torquing the bow

7. for both metal and wooden arrows get all of the sizes you can and bareshaft them out as far as you can...with longbow you tune your arrows to the bow

8. get your arrow spine, arrow flight and knocking point right before befor you even fletch your irst arrow or shoot a fletched arrow.

9. by way of example I have found a knocking point 3mm above square works. I shoot cock feather in.

10. I found that 1916 Jazz worked well for bows 43-49 #; 2016 for 50# and a bit higher and 1816 for 33#-42#. for timbers go to the thinnest you can match to your bow. Use 125 grain brass screw on points for 50#, spined 45-50# either 11/32 or 5/16

11. coming from a situation where your arrows are highly likely to be matched make sure that once you decide what arrows you use that you match by length and mass each and every arrow otherwise you will not be able to adjust your shots accurately. try to get the mas of your timber and wooden arrows the same. You can add mass to points etc. this reduces the variance in gaps when shooting

12. Record your scores and plot improvements but remember there will be platteaus

13. get someone to videotape your form egularly and analyze it

14. push, pull, power [release under full power], pose [hold your position and aim focus until you hear the arow hit

15. enjoy the good bits, learn from the bad bits but do not dwell on them as you cannot take that shot back

Kevin

[matt_d]

Having made the transition from compound to trad a few years ago, I can say that I don't think there is a huge amount of difference between shooting the 2 different disciplines.
A good compound shooter will be able to pick up a trad bow and shoot it well within a short space of time, and vice versa.

The main area to work on will be your release. Try not to "throw" your fingers open. Let that entire right side (for a RH shooter) go dead. Your back tension should mean your string hand ends up behind your head, resting on your shoulder after the shot.
You might find your drawing elbow position quite high at first.. If you don't have access to coaching, take the time to watch yourself in the mirror as you draw from different angles.
Also, take the time to practice about 1 metre in front of a target butt, shooting with your eyes closed... I find it really helps me memorise the feel of a good shot.

Read a lot! There are many good books written by excellent archers on traditional shooting, many of which will give conflicting information. You'll also receive bad advice from time to time on this forum. Be patient and only try changing one thing at a time, and work out what works best for you.

If you wish to shoot instinctively, practice unknown distances. I picked up a little routine from a chap on here, where he takes a shot at 10m or so, turns his back and walks further away. The time it takes him to draw the next arrow he turns around and shoots again from an unknown distance. It is amazing how good an exercise that is for your instinctive shooting.

Last of all, never forget to have fun flinging arrows!

Cheers,
Matt

[alaninoz]

All of the above, but a consistent anchor point really helps. I see many barebow (not just trad) shooters who don't have a consistent anchor and that makes it really difficult to shoot well. Also makes it hard to sort out other form problems.

[jc_anthro]

Wow, thanks. Some great responses in less than 24 hours of posting. Certainly a few things to think about there. I'm certainly looking forward to trying to develop an intuitive style as this was what I felt was lacking in the compound experience (although some of course say it's possible to shoot intuitively with a compound). I have always found the power of the technology of the compound a bit of an obstacle to a satisfactory experience (although no doubt highly effective). When I first bought my compound (from an unnamed outlet in QLD) I enquired about more traditional styles. The salesman's response was basically "don't bother, it's too difficult, and it's just for nerdy old farts". I should've spotted something fishy, but proceeded to buy a compound anyway. I've never really felt at home with it. Hopefully I'll be a nerdy old fart in no time (although I expect he was probably right about the difficult bit...)....

[ichiban]

i may be nerdy but im only 20 dran it!

[ichiban]

haha jk i persoanly find that the best thing (and some times the worst thing) about trad archery is that you really dont have to shoot very often to enjoy the many aspecs of the craft/sport because you can always build a bow, fletch some arrows or spend hours doodling away in a note book, with traditional archery there are soooooo many levels that you can take with it

[alaninoz]

That's me - nerdy old fart!

[hue]

hiya JC

from a guy who shot compound and got to GMB in twelve years to a guy who shoots an off the hand tartar bow, welcome!
Kevin (longbowinfected) and Matt hit everything squarely on the head with their posts. the trick is to find a form that you are comfortable with and shoot it consistantly, read that word!!!!!!!!!! i don't have any time for a trad archers who say, you don't have too shoot often to enjoy it. that may be true but it doesn't do anything for scores.
don't know about you mate, but i'm competative and wanna win and i practice a lot and you can have both! practice the right thing and it will happen, but take time to practice the right thing.
i gave myself two years to master the horsebow and is now showing results (if todays score is any indication), give yourself lots of time.this is the hardest form of archery, that you have chosen.
the compound bows these days, almost shoot themselves! i know that's not fair, but when i stopped shooting compound 7 years ago 1290 was great, 1350 or 1400 is now regular in a long fita. get ready for low scores mate, but it is sooooooooooo much fun.

Hue

[Mick Smith]

I've amended my earlier post as I didn't explain myself very well. Sorry about that.

Mick

[ichiban]

wow hue good on ya for not having time for me cause i dont want ur time, why dose everything have to be about "wining" if u just want to win then trad aint the rout you, why not shoot a compund i bet your scores will be higher, my point was that there are many things that trad archery can offer and winning medals isnt up there on my list of prioritys making a perfectly matced set of footed arrows with buff horn self nock inserts or building a faster than average long bow to me is way more rewarding. that being said those arrows and that bow are designed to get good scores or kill game but at the end of the day your what makes it happen and if thats all you want from them then thats up to you but i look for more than that.

[longbowinfected]

What is wrong about being competitive or even striving to be the best you can but using a trad bow? I love trad. I love competition...not because of medals but because competition stretches you and your fellow competitors..it brings out your best, especially when you are having a bad day and you have to knuckle down and do better. You really shoot against your own expectations which are based upon an undrstanding of your current developed ability.
I would have thought that the ability to hit a target more accurately more consistently goes a long way towards treating the animal you shoot at with respect and enable you to deliver a humane kill. If this is not i the back of your mind the alternative is shooting and hoping.
Even people who do not shoot target keep scores at Trad events.

Kevin

[ichiban]

nothings wrong with wanting to win but having the mentality that winning is everything is sad, i dont belive that any1 could look down on others with out that competitive streak, i can compeat against myself i dont need to beat others

[Brumbies Country]

Dave, I didn't get the impression that Hue and Kevin thought that winning was the be all and end all. I took what you said to mean you enjoyed competing against yourself and essentially I think that's what most of us do. My wife and family see me as a competitive person but in essence I compete against myself in archery, previously in other sports, but also and more so, in my professional life. To me it's about continually testing my limits. It's an extension of that that challenges people to shoot better scores and if that results in winning and records so be it. It's what challenges people to build a bow, then build a better bow and as I see it you are very much into that. Not much different I reckon.

Simon

[longbowinfected]

Totally agree Simon.
Ichiban I have no problems with your viewpoint.
Yours is very similar in essence but wih a twist or two that speak to your individuality. There are more similarities than differences that I can see.
I know Hue real well and have shot with and against him and he is a typical longbower[even if he shoots horse bow]. He tries to do better than you, congratulates you each time you do a good shot and laughs with you when you act like a duffer.
He loves a yarn and would be one of the friendliest blokes at an event you could hope to meet.
He went from compound crazy to fully embracing the horse bow hing which is really difficult if you are in AA because they do not have a spot or it.
He is doing what he loves as are we all....it's all good.

Kevin

[ichiban]

well if thats the case then im sorry i must have misunderstood, it just didnt come across well

[longbowinfected]

no apologies are necessary. Call it as you see it. One of your best assets Ichiban is that you say what you mean and mean what you say.
We are all different and see things differently and that difference is what makes each of us unique even though we are all constructed with the same $20 worth of base materials.

Kevin

[hue]

my apologies to you Ichi!

i didn't mean to make any implication other than self-competition, however, if we can "kick" someone elses butt in the process, all well and good!
in a way Ichi, it is about competition. if you shoot well on the line, your chances of hitting the game is increased and as Kevin said (and thanks for the nice words mate) it shows respect to the game.
having said that, however, we in the trad movement do have to be competative. i know a few trad shooters who shoot Fita and fita see us as "recreational shooters" and that gets up all our noses. so we do have to show that competition is a part of the game. after all, we wanna hit the gold, because we aimed at it, not by fluke. get where i'm coming from?

Hue

[ichiban]

yeah i totaly understand that, i guess i just get more of a kick from watching someone hit the gold with an arrow i made shot from a bow i made you know, its just unfortunate as i dont have time to really get down to the range as offten as id like and need to get decent scores i really should try to make some more time indtead of making silly bugger bows (see short bows in trad tackle).

[longbowinfected]

All the people posting bow and arrow building here are critically important.
This helps to push the bow wave moving in front of trad archery.
A great archer becomes an even better archer if they study/make/develop their arrow and bow making as they understand archery better.
If there are more Ozzie local bowyers and fletchers/arrowsmiths and visible bare bowers around the traps this will pick up a huge amount of momentum and grow exponentially. As costs get higher more families wil look at trad as the best value option.
Kevin

[hue]

you hit that on the head Kev.
one reason why there was such a growth at my club in trad shooting was the cost issue. but once hooked...........!
if you can end up making a good bow Ichi, who knows where that can go. Joe Vardon et al only made bows cause they had fun, now their bows are everywhere and some now make a living out of it.
Timbow made them for himself, but started making for others as they were that good. he's now had to sell all his bowyer gear, cos he didn't have the time anymore, which is a pity, but there was a guy who could've or for that matter Len, who now makes a great ELB, don't know where he finds the time being self employed. keep going Ichi, you just might make what the market wants!

Hue

[ichiban]

hmm i dont mind making them for myself and friends but its gotta be at my pace as i dont work well when distracted, besides that i forget where i read it but some1 said something along the lines of "the worst thing a man can do is make his hobbie his work" and i would have to agree with that kinda puts a damper on the cair free spirit that i try to have when building a bow or having a shoot

[longbowinfected]

Now that is very easy to understand.
I like to make my own arrows but I do not waste any time making them pretty...I'd rather be shooting them....so I make one or two big batches of plain black and white arrows a year.
Life is all about making compromises and I think the advice about not making a loved hobby into a job makes sense to me.....you lose control of your time that way and you could end up hating the thing you really liked.
I would be totally lost without archery.

Kevin

[ichiban]

i feel the same way about making the gear and for me shooting is just a way to figure out improvments for the next

[looseplucker]

Lesson from shooting skeet and field and game:

Pull off a really good shot - do it again. You know what you did.