I have shot the one bow 53#@28" for 21/2 years of competition and got to the point where the shot was unconscious at all distances.
The above bow was getting a bit long in the tooth having shot well over 100,000 arrows(conservative estimate) so I made a new bow almost identical in shape, feel, although 3 lbs heavier.
At first my scores increased due to the extra cast but before long I found my self short drawing and holding infront of my anchor point about an inch.
I continued shooting like this thinking I must just need to shoot more to build up the strength to shoot a 120 arrow session but was confused as I could still draw 70lbs to anchor and release cleanly whne play with my hunting recurve?
The problem struck home at the National indoor where I had been shooting good scores in practice but on the day of the event when the pressure was on and the temperature of the venue low (5 degrees) I came unstuck and just couldnt get my shot to work, scoring poorly by my standard and not enjoying the shoot.
I returned to old faithful 53# bow but by that stage the damage had been done and the short draw had become part of my form. It has been quite depressing shooting like this knowing that you can do so much better form wise and I was almost at the point where I was going to give up on the competitive side of archery.
My last effort to rid myself of this has been to drop to 46# in order to be able to comfortably and consciously pull into my anchor point and it seems to be working.
I mentioned this to GraemeK at the Wisemans Ferry shoot and he suggested that my shot had become so unconscious that my body would only draw the heavy bow until it reached the draw weight that was previously my anchor weight thus floating around an inch in front of my anchor, it was only after shooting for 10 minutes or so that this would occur and it felt like I was pulling into a brick wall, I just couldnt get it back.
Maybe if Graeme reads this he can explain it better as what he said to me made perfect sense and has made my journey back alot easier.
Steve
Target panic
Moderator: Moderators
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longbow steve
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Mick Smith
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Re: Target panic
That sounds a bit like what I went though as well Steve.
Over the many years that I've enjoyed shooting a bow, I would have shot thousands and thousands of arrows. I enjoyed a certain amount of consistency over these many years. I've never been the best shot in the world, but I could manage to hit what I was looking at most times.
When I first became involved in the local club scene, I tried to better my scores by practicing more and it worked. I was slowing getting to be a better shot. My scores were constantly improving.
A few years ago, I found myself short drawing. I actually felt much more comfortable when I had the arrow about an inch short of my full drawn length. I could manage to hit the closer targets more consistantly by doing this. The longer shots were something else though, as the arrow just didn't have enough speed to perform as before.
After shooting in this manner for many months, I found that I simply couldn't draw the arrow to my anchor. I would reach a point and no matter what I tried or did, I simply couldn't draw the bow any further back. It was like as if the bow suddenly had a draw weight of a ton. When I forced the issue I would start shaking, even though I knew very well that I could easily draw the bow back, as it only had a draw weight of 54#. It was a mental thing.
Since then I have discovered that target panic is a battle between your conscious and your subconscious. Because instinctive shooting relys heavilly on the subconscious to make all the necessary allowances, the conscious doesn't do much at all. I discovered that your conscious doesn't even control the moment of release. This is where the problem arises, your conscious is saying to come to full draw, concentrate and release, but your subconscious is saying, "you have a correct target picture - S H O O T !!". The trouble is, you haven't come to full draw. I know that, but it doesn't make any difference, as your subconscious won't listen.
By wait, it gets worse! It slowly got to the stage where I was unintentionally shooting the arrow well before I reached a partial draw. If I was looking at the target and the arrow was on the string, my subconscious took over my 'fire control system'. It was pathetic! My arrow would land about halfway to the target. You could throw it further. I just couldn't stop it from happening.
I learnt to control my target panic by not focussing on the target at all. I would come to a full draw whilst concentrating on a point to the left of the target. I knew it wasn't the target, so my subconscious didn't try to take over. While I was at full draw, I would slowly move the bow to the right until I achieved full concentration on the 'spot'. When everying felt spot on, I would then release. Using this method, I could at least shoot reasonably well, but it wasn't going to last.
Soon, it got to the stage where I would unintentional release the arrow as soon as I glanced at the target. The bow wasn't fully moved to cover the target yet, so the arrow would shoot to the left by a margin that depended on just how premature my release was. Talk about frustration!!
The way to fix target panic is to practice and practice good form. To do this you have to come to full draw on the target and then let down, come to full draw on the target and then let down, and keep on doing this over and over again, until it become imprinted in your mind. Once you feel confident you can come to a full draw and concentrate on the target, you might let a few arrows 'rip'. You shouldn't worry too much about where they land as your form is the important thing. Once you find yourself short drawing or releasing prematurely, you must stop immediately, otherwise you're reinforcing bad habits. It's a slow road to recovery.
Even to this day I'm still troubled with target panic. It creeps up on you when you least want it to, like during a much anticipated competition. When this happens, you can't stand there drawing and letting down over and over again, as other competitors are waiting for you, so you continue to compete, or score is getting worse and worse and you feel like giving up archery all together. I do love my archery though and I just keep on coming back for more.
Mick
Over the many years that I've enjoyed shooting a bow, I would have shot thousands and thousands of arrows. I enjoyed a certain amount of consistency over these many years. I've never been the best shot in the world, but I could manage to hit what I was looking at most times.
When I first became involved in the local club scene, I tried to better my scores by practicing more and it worked. I was slowing getting to be a better shot. My scores were constantly improving.
A few years ago, I found myself short drawing. I actually felt much more comfortable when I had the arrow about an inch short of my full drawn length. I could manage to hit the closer targets more consistantly by doing this. The longer shots were something else though, as the arrow just didn't have enough speed to perform as before.
After shooting in this manner for many months, I found that I simply couldn't draw the arrow to my anchor. I would reach a point and no matter what I tried or did, I simply couldn't draw the bow any further back. It was like as if the bow suddenly had a draw weight of a ton. When I forced the issue I would start shaking, even though I knew very well that I could easily draw the bow back, as it only had a draw weight of 54#. It was a mental thing.
Since then I have discovered that target panic is a battle between your conscious and your subconscious. Because instinctive shooting relys heavilly on the subconscious to make all the necessary allowances, the conscious doesn't do much at all. I discovered that your conscious doesn't even control the moment of release. This is where the problem arises, your conscious is saying to come to full draw, concentrate and release, but your subconscious is saying, "you have a correct target picture - S H O O T !!". The trouble is, you haven't come to full draw. I know that, but it doesn't make any difference, as your subconscious won't listen.
By wait, it gets worse! It slowly got to the stage where I was unintentionally shooting the arrow well before I reached a partial draw. If I was looking at the target and the arrow was on the string, my subconscious took over my 'fire control system'. It was pathetic! My arrow would land about halfway to the target. You could throw it further. I just couldn't stop it from happening.
I learnt to control my target panic by not focussing on the target at all. I would come to a full draw whilst concentrating on a point to the left of the target. I knew it wasn't the target, so my subconscious didn't try to take over. While I was at full draw, I would slowly move the bow to the right until I achieved full concentration on the 'spot'. When everying felt spot on, I would then release. Using this method, I could at least shoot reasonably well, but it wasn't going to last.
Soon, it got to the stage where I would unintentional release the arrow as soon as I glanced at the target. The bow wasn't fully moved to cover the target yet, so the arrow would shoot to the left by a margin that depended on just how premature my release was. Talk about frustration!!
The way to fix target panic is to practice and practice good form. To do this you have to come to full draw on the target and then let down, come to full draw on the target and then let down, and keep on doing this over and over again, until it become imprinted in your mind. Once you feel confident you can come to a full draw and concentrate on the target, you might let a few arrows 'rip'. You shouldn't worry too much about where they land as your form is the important thing. Once you find yourself short drawing or releasing prematurely, you must stop immediately, otherwise you're reinforcing bad habits. It's a slow road to recovery.
Even to this day I'm still troubled with target panic. It creeps up on you when you least want it to, like during a much anticipated competition. When this happens, you can't stand there drawing and letting down over and over again, as other competitors are waiting for you, so you continue to compete, or score is getting worse and worse and you feel like giving up archery all together. I do love my archery though and I just keep on coming back for more.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.
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longbow steve
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Re: Target panic
Yes Mick those premature releases where they dribble out 10 or 20meters in front of you or you try to catch it and fling it over the back of the target. I am glad I dont have a problem aiming at the target but I am sure that would be the natural progression of the symptoms I had, you seem to have let it develop and I dont envy your depth.
I am fortunate that my 46# bow shoots faster than my 53# target bow so the transition was good, I recommend a large reduction in draw weight until normal form is re introduced. Steve
I am fortunate that my 46# bow shoots faster than my 53# target bow so the transition was good, I recommend a large reduction in draw weight until normal form is re introduced. Steve
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longbowinfected
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Re: Target panic
Thanks guys for such insights.
In any way do you feel that being an instinctive shooter vs a gap shooter play a role or more likely to play a role in this? I think swapping from one to the other and swapping from one bow to another is likely to affect form if you do not practice a lot. Steve, I think you gap shoot for distance and instinctively shoot closer distances. I gap shoot everything. Mick I do not know what you do so both your inputs on this would be interesting.
Learning to judge distances has worked for me and using gap shooting has developed a lot of consistency for me especially in long shoots but I have never been as briliant as you, Steve.
Sort of like you Mick I draw to full draw then go to my aiming point. However, my first draw motion results in being slightly higher than I need be. I make an adjustment down just prior to releasing. I do this because I have astigmatism in my dominant eye and so i reduce the amount of time spent focussing. If I do not concentrate or shoot too quickly or even take too long this can translate to the bow moving whilst shooting. Luckily for me, Steve, you pointed this movement out to me and I have slowed right down and consciously settle before releasing which has resulted in recent good improvement. Mick your advice about practising letting down is an excellent suggestion.
It just goes to show that you need a training buddy to observe your form or at least someone to regularly video you from all angles, and you ned to analyse this besides carrying out perfect practice.
Kevin
In any way do you feel that being an instinctive shooter vs a gap shooter play a role or more likely to play a role in this? I think swapping from one to the other and swapping from one bow to another is likely to affect form if you do not practice a lot. Steve, I think you gap shoot for distance and instinctively shoot closer distances. I gap shoot everything. Mick I do not know what you do so both your inputs on this would be interesting.
Learning to judge distances has worked for me and using gap shooting has developed a lot of consistency for me especially in long shoots but I have never been as briliant as you, Steve.
Sort of like you Mick I draw to full draw then go to my aiming point. However, my first draw motion results in being slightly higher than I need be. I make an adjustment down just prior to releasing. I do this because I have astigmatism in my dominant eye and so i reduce the amount of time spent focussing. If I do not concentrate or shoot too quickly or even take too long this can translate to the bow moving whilst shooting. Luckily for me, Steve, you pointed this movement out to me and I have slowed right down and consciously settle before releasing which has resulted in recent good improvement. Mick your advice about practising letting down is an excellent suggestion.
It just goes to show that you need a training buddy to observe your form or at least someone to regularly video you from all angles, and you ned to analyse this besides carrying out perfect practice.
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
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longbow steve
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Re: Target panic
Hi Kevin, I attribute my ailment to the bow weight change, I am confident in "instinctive" gap and point of aim and can utilise all methods depending on the shot needed but that comes with practice and confidence and not allowing yourself to get in the way of the shot.
A shooting buddy is handy but learning to self diagnose is important.
Steve
A shooting buddy is handy but learning to self diagnose is important.
Steve
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longbowinfected
- Posts: 2040
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Re: Target panic
I agree, you have to really analyse and it is easier if you can see what you are doing rather than thinking you know sometimes because then you assume something, change things and you make it worse.....at that point stop, have a think about it and start fresh and relaxed the next day.
Kevin
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
Re: Target panic
Yeah I have a similar problem in obtaining my sight picture. I have no problems at all gap shooting over longer distances because my mind is on constantly calculating my point gap I am not so much focused on the target until everything is in place. On a 3D course where I generally shoot instinctively at all distances I find myself sometimes releasing before I've made what feels like the correct sight picture. At the worst of times I'll simply let the arrow fly, missing the target completely. Generally though, I will feel myself starting to release and try to "catch" the release for a split second before it rolls off my fingers - resulting in an ordinary shot that sounds pretty awful too due to muffing up the release. It seems to be due to the excitement I get when my mind becomes totally focused on the small point I have picked in the target well before the bow has been brought into position.
One thing I tried to combat this was actually to start my draw with the bow quite high above shoulder height, coming to anchor point and then gradually lower my elevation until making the correct sight picture. It works somewhat because the bow riser is actually obscuring my view of the target until the last minute. I still find sometimes I do release before I have stopped all movement completely. Very frustrating problem!! It doesn't happen until I am at least half a dozen shots into a 3D round.. my first few shots are always good ones.. strange!
I think that's also the reason I never seem to get the problem when I'm out hunting.
Cheers,
Matt
One thing I tried to combat this was actually to start my draw with the bow quite high above shoulder height, coming to anchor point and then gradually lower my elevation until making the correct sight picture. It works somewhat because the bow riser is actually obscuring my view of the target until the last minute. I still find sometimes I do release before I have stopped all movement completely. Very frustrating problem!! It doesn't happen until I am at least half a dozen shots into a 3D round.. my first few shots are always good ones.. strange!
I think that's also the reason I never seem to get the problem when I'm out hunting. Cheers,
Matt
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Mick Smith
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Re: Target panic
Kevin
I shoot instinctively most of the time, but I find I can't even land my arrows on the target face at longer ranges shooting this way, so at distances beyond 30 metres I gap shoot (albeit very poorly).
I find that I can shoot reasonably accurately in clout (145 metres) by using the little triangle where the base of my hand intersects with the bow as a sight.
I have all sorts of trouble when I try to gap shoot. The feeling I get is quite similiar to what goes on in my head when I have target panic. My conscious is telling me one thing and my subconscious is telling me something else.
I mentally calculate where the point needs to be in relation to the target, but I have lots of trouble actually holding my point on that mark, as I'm very, very tempted to shoot when I have my 'instinctive' sight picture, even though I know full well, that the arrow doesn't have enough elevation for the distance. I am very good at rattling my arrows through the little gap between the ground and the bottom edge of the target face at 50 metres.
I never experience any target panic when I'm hunting. I presume that's because I'm totally focussed on my hunting and on the animal. It's also the same when I'm stump shooting. I'm definately far more prone to get the dreaded target panic when I'm competing, particularly in a 3D shoot. I don't know why this is so, but I do know that it's somehow connected to my confidence of being able to make a good shot. All it takes in one or two bad shots and target panic will set in. It doesn't take much to set it off, as it's feels as though it's just lying 'under the surface'.
I have tried using lighter draw weight bows and it does help, but it's not the total answer, well, not for me anyway. I get target panic with light bows too.
The stupid thing about target panic for me, is that I can shoot with excellent form and reasonable accuracy for weeks or months, but then, out of the blue, back it comes with no warning or reason.
Perhaps it's a mental disipline thing. I'm not strong in that area.
Mick
I shoot instinctively most of the time, but I find I can't even land my arrows on the target face at longer ranges shooting this way, so at distances beyond 30 metres I gap shoot (albeit very poorly).
I find that I can shoot reasonably accurately in clout (145 metres) by using the little triangle where the base of my hand intersects with the bow as a sight.
I have all sorts of trouble when I try to gap shoot. The feeling I get is quite similiar to what goes on in my head when I have target panic. My conscious is telling me one thing and my subconscious is telling me something else.
I mentally calculate where the point needs to be in relation to the target, but I have lots of trouble actually holding my point on that mark, as I'm very, very tempted to shoot when I have my 'instinctive' sight picture, even though I know full well, that the arrow doesn't have enough elevation for the distance. I am very good at rattling my arrows through the little gap between the ground and the bottom edge of the target face at 50 metres. I never experience any target panic when I'm hunting. I presume that's because I'm totally focussed on my hunting and on the animal. It's also the same when I'm stump shooting. I'm definately far more prone to get the dreaded target panic when I'm competing, particularly in a 3D shoot. I don't know why this is so, but I do know that it's somehow connected to my confidence of being able to make a good shot. All it takes in one or two bad shots and target panic will set in. It doesn't take much to set it off, as it's feels as though it's just lying 'under the surface'.
I have tried using lighter draw weight bows and it does help, but it's not the total answer, well, not for me anyway. I get target panic with light bows too.
The stupid thing about target panic for me, is that I can shoot with excellent form and reasonable accuracy for weeks or months, but then, out of the blue, back it comes with no warning or reason.
Perhaps it's a mental disipline thing. I'm not strong in that area.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.
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longbow steve
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Re: Target panic
Have you tried point of aim shooting Mick, utilising a ground marker that you place the point of the arrow on?
60m is my point on distance and it is easy 50m point of the arrow is on the base of the 122cm face and thats what I look at and adjust from there for the others distances. I find it helps me to return to this form of shooting as it is the most accurate and takes the target out of the picture. Steve
60m is my point on distance and it is easy 50m point of the arrow is on the base of the 122cm face and thats what I look at and adjust from there for the others distances. I find it helps me to return to this form of shooting as it is the most accurate and takes the target out of the picture. Steve
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Mick Smith
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Re: Target panic
No Steve, I haven't tried it. I might give it a go though.
You see, I'm just an old hunter. In the past all I ever did was to shoot instinctively at game (and practice targets) at what I called realistic ranges, ie, to a maximum of 30 metres, but more commonly around 15 to 20 metres. Up until recently I didn't have any need to be able to shoot at longer ranges. It has only been in the last few years that I've even attempted to shoot at 40 to 60 metres and that's only because I've become involved in the trad archery competition scene.
I suppose I sort of take a perverse snobby attitude to long range shooting. It doesn't really worry me that I can't shoot well at long ranges, as this is one area of archery that doesn't particularly appeal to me (I do find clout shooting to be a lot of fun though).
It just doesn't seem 'right' to me to try to shoot at distances beyond 30 metres. I suppose that's because my attitude and style are deeply ingrained in the hunting side of things.
Mick
You see, I'm just an old hunter. In the past all I ever did was to shoot instinctively at game (and practice targets) at what I called realistic ranges, ie, to a maximum of 30 metres, but more commonly around 15 to 20 metres. Up until recently I didn't have any need to be able to shoot at longer ranges. It has only been in the last few years that I've even attempted to shoot at 40 to 60 metres and that's only because I've become involved in the trad archery competition scene.
I suppose I sort of take a perverse snobby attitude to long range shooting. It doesn't really worry me that I can't shoot well at long ranges, as this is one area of archery that doesn't particularly appeal to me (I do find clout shooting to be a lot of fun though).
It just doesn't seem 'right' to me to try to shoot at distances beyond 30 metres. I suppose that's because my attitude and style are deeply ingrained in the hunting side of things.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.
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longbow steve
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Re: Target panic
Hi Mick, set up a ground marker at your practice butt at home and adjust it as you need so you hit the butt and take note of the groups when you are aiming the point of your arrow at this and not your target, you will be suprised at how accurate it is. When you get comfortable with that try the same technique at 30 and 40 meters without looking up and your groups will be just as tight.
This method only works for target shoots not field or 3d. Steve
and take note of the groups when you are aiming the point of your arrow at this and not your target, you will be suprised at how accurate it is. When you get comfortable with that try the same technique at 30 and 40 meters without looking up and your groups will be just as tight.This method only works for target shoots not field or 3d. Steve
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longbowinfected
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Re: Target panic
You can also play around with your arrow mass to get the line of best fit for your gaps especially if you are using your arrow point as long as you draw the same way every time. Associated with arrow mass of course you can fiddle around with the length of your arrow.
For me with my 49# flat laid boo long bow I aim the point of my arrow at the base of the 122cm paper target for 60 metres, and for seventy metres at about a foot above the target face, whereas for 50 metres I aim the point down near the feet of the target butt. For each of these I adjust according to the conditions, looking for blades of darker grass that stand out more than others as I get closer. Do not use yellow dandylions or obvious bindii flowers because your fellow archers will kick them out whilst they walk to and fro.....Steve reckons that if you used doggie doo that it would be a safe ground marker but I do not think that it would be great to carry around.....it would also be cheating.
If longbowers were allowed to face walk long distance archery would be very easy indeed.....but we are not in AA......yet bare bow recurvers are allowed to string walk and they achieve incredible accuracy. You check out their scores and they do almost as well as sighted archers. One of the hard things that make beating a good bare bow trad archer more difficult if you are a trad longbower.....but they are great to watch....
Kevin
For me with my 49# flat laid boo long bow I aim the point of my arrow at the base of the 122cm paper target for 60 metres, and for seventy metres at about a foot above the target face, whereas for 50 metres I aim the point down near the feet of the target butt. For each of these I adjust according to the conditions, looking for blades of darker grass that stand out more than others as I get closer. Do not use yellow dandylions or obvious bindii flowers because your fellow archers will kick them out whilst they walk to and fro.....Steve reckons that if you used doggie doo that it would be a safe ground marker but I do not think that it would be great to carry around.....it would also be cheating.
If longbowers were allowed to face walk long distance archery would be very easy indeed.....but we are not in AA......yet bare bow recurvers are allowed to string walk and they achieve incredible accuracy. You check out their scores and they do almost as well as sighted archers. One of the hard things that make beating a good bare bow trad archer more difficult if you are a trad longbower.....but they are great to watch....
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
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Brumbies Country
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: Yass NSW
Re: Target panic
Actually glad to see this surface on Ozbow Steve. Just after Christmas when I had a bit more time on my hands I followed the subject of target panic on Tradbow and it was just amazing how many US trad shooters admitted this as a problem. I was sort of relieved to see it because I've had it on and of for the last couple of years. You'd reckon it could easily be a problem of sighted shooters but it effects us barebowers just as badly apparently. I stringwalked barebow recurve first two years and it never effected me there in target, field, indoor or clout. It didn't effect me initially in longbow, and has never effected me for example shooting a Freemantle target round. It effects me where I have the most desire to do well. ie field shooting. It came on after I had shoulder problems, but those problems are a lot better and I should have put that behind me. Effects a bit more in AA field than ABA but latterly has effected my ABA shooting. It effects me worse on shorter targets. Manifests as not properly anchoring and therefore short drawing. I've tried shooting a lower poundage bow and that well help a bit but is not the complete answer. In his book Instinctive Archery Insights, Jay Kidwell (an archery psychologist) recommends a lot of holding on various targets with good form and proper anchor and then letting down, then moving to loosing the odd arrow but still holding and letting down a fair bit. One thing I still find hard is to let down when shooting in a field competition and I reckon when I can do that with comfort I'll be on the way to completely beating it. I reckon in addition to that I need to return to shooting target, in company with plenty of fellow archers on an AA Sunday club day. I'd regard myself as normally emotionally very stable-all the harder to explain it!
Simon
Simon
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Christov84
- Posts: 29
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Re: Target panic
I've suffered from target panic alot in the past 6 months. A couple of exercises I do are to over-anchor the bow, tell myself that my anchor point is my ear lobe for example, to force myself to draw back as far as possible. If I under draw by an inch or two I will be pretty close to my anchor point and letting down to it is easier then drawing more.
I also hold my draw, and cris-cross around the bullseye, do figure eights and let down. Sometimes I will just go from target to target (field course) and let down and not fire a shot. At home I will draw my bow with arrow in place and aim at like the toaster, or TV and really focus on a point like it is a target, imagine a deer there or something. Obviously I can't shoot the arrow! And my mind knows it. I found this particularly good for stopping myself from premature release.
These things really helped me with target panic, I hope they can help others.
I also hold my draw, and cris-cross around the bullseye, do figure eights and let down. Sometimes I will just go from target to target (field course) and let down and not fire a shot. At home I will draw my bow with arrow in place and aim at like the toaster, or TV and really focus on a point like it is a target, imagine a deer there or something. Obviously I can't shoot the arrow! And my mind knows it. I found this particularly good for stopping myself from premature release.
These things really helped me with target panic, I hope they can help others.
Re: Target panic
thanks for the info guys this is great stuff
Im gonna make it bend and break-Fall Out Boy
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Benny Nganabbarru
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Re: Target panic
Rule Number One: Never read or watch anything about target panic!
Having said that, I highly recommend Masters of the Barebow volume 3.
Having said that, I highly recommend Masters of the Barebow volume 3.
It's the great, big, broad land 'way up yonder,
It's the forests where silence has lease;
It's the beauty that thrills me with wonder,
It's the stillness that fills me with peace.
It's the forests where silence has lease;
It's the beauty that thrills me with wonder,
It's the stillness that fills me with peace.
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Brumbies Country
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: Yass NSW
Re: Target panic
Fair enough Ben-the power of suggestion and it's likely a communicable disease. Agree you shouldn't read or watch anything about TP ( let's not even name it) if you are uninfected, but if you catch it then good to try anything that sounds like it might effect a cure. Archery is mighty important and I've just had a mate give up with that as a major contributing cause.Ben Kleinig wrote:Rule Number One: Never read or watch anything about target panic!
Having said that, I highly recommend Masters of the Barebow volume 3.
Simon
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Mick Smith
- Posts: 4957
- Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2005 9:09 pm
- Location: Surf Coast Victoria
Re: Target panic
If I wasn't as passionate as I am about my archery, I would have given it up ages ago due to my frequent bouts of target panic. It really is a downer.
I suppose it's like a lot of things, when you look back, you only remember the good shots and the good times. You tend to push the more negative memories to the back of your mind.
Target panic is certainly related to confidence. When your confidence become dented after one or two bad shots, that's when to watch out, in my experience.
I suppose if archery was dead easy, we would soon all become bored with it and move on.
Mick
I suppose it's like a lot of things, when you look back, you only remember the good shots and the good times. You tend to push the more negative memories to the back of your mind.
Target panic is certainly related to confidence. When your confidence become dented after one or two bad shots, that's when to watch out, in my experience.
I suppose if archery was dead easy, we would soon all become bored with it and move on.
Mick
There is no use focusing on aiming if you don't execute the shot well enough to hit what your are aiming at.
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Stickbow Hunter
- Supporter
- Posts: 11637
- Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
- Location: Maryborough Queensland
Re: Target panic
One would certainly hope it does.At home I will draw my bow with arrow in place and aim at like the toaster, or TV and really focus on a point like it is a target, imagine a deer there or something. Obviously I can't shoot the arrow! And my mind knows it.
Jeff
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longbowinfected
- Posts: 2040
- Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 5:42 pm
Re: Target panic
I used to think that my astigmatism which does not allow me to stay focussed on an object was really holding my archery back until I swapped to longbow from sighted compound where the magnification made things worse.
After reading bout other folk's problems with target panic it is only a small thing.
Kevin
After reading bout other folk's problems with target panic it is only a small thing.
Kevin
never complain....you did not have to wake up....every day is an extra bonus and costs nothing.
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from sweden
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:45 pm
- Location: melbourne
Re: Target panic
Hi I suffer from target panic it comes and goes .
it is very frustrating . because i feel im a really good archer at least i used to be .
my problem is not so much releasing before coming to full draw .
but i get nervous when im competing or if people are watching and i can not come of string
so i bacicaly pull my fingers of the string, the force makes my bow arm move and arrow misses target ,
and some times i will release even though i know i am gonna miss, because im not were i need to be
sight picture not accuired .
when im by my self i do not get this problem .
i went to the national 18 meter indoor tournament , thinking i was going to break the aussie record because i broke it many times
practising i got target panic so bad i could barely keep my arrows on paper actualy i completely missed the target
a couple of times , my score was the lowest ever .
they say that once you get target panic it is very hard to get rid of it i now know what they mean .
i have been reading a book on the subject and doing some drills that have helped alot but i am still suffering from it .
i find the longbow more forgiving of my form of target panic than the recurve .
cheers cody
it is very frustrating . because i feel im a really good archer at least i used to be .
my problem is not so much releasing before coming to full draw .
but i get nervous when im competing or if people are watching and i can not come of string
so i bacicaly pull my fingers of the string, the force makes my bow arm move and arrow misses target ,
and some times i will release even though i know i am gonna miss, because im not were i need to be
sight picture not accuired .
when im by my self i do not get this problem .
i went to the national 18 meter indoor tournament , thinking i was going to break the aussie record because i broke it many times
practising i got target panic so bad i could barely keep my arrows on paper actualy i completely missed the target
a couple of times , my score was the lowest ever .
they say that once you get target panic it is very hard to get rid of it i now know what they mean .
i have been reading a book on the subject and doing some drills that have helped alot but i am still suffering from it .
i find the longbow more forgiving of my form of target panic than the recurve .
cheers cody
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Brumbies Country
- Posts: 981
- Joined: Mon May 22, 2006 9:18 pm
- Location: Yass NSW
Re: Target panic
Hi Cody
This is along the lines of what Tony posted.
I know where you are coming from. I held an Archery Australia veterans barebow record for a couple of years, shot good scores at the ABA nationals with longbow and won an open longbow title at the NZ nationals 3 years ago, but a couple of years ago target panic set in. Some of the time I could control it but it was variable. It's a product of wanting to shoot better and it possibly doesn't happen quite so readily with people who are not ambitious about their shooting. It got particularly bad late last year. I've tried most things recommended in the books and had 3 sessions of hypnotherary late last year. One of the best things was coming to full draw and having my wife count randomly and silently between 1 and seven than calling out to shoot. These things all helped to some degree but to have any chance of completely rectifying the problem seems in my case to require complete re-programming. My problem has presented as a premature release. I get back towards full draw, see what I subconciously register as a presentable sight picture and release before hitting anchor. You get some good arrows but it is a recipe for inconsistency and getting fed up with yourself
I was talking to Dennis La Varenne in a pm and he gave me some very good suggestions. I'm part way through these now. I'm sure Dennis wouldn't mind me briefly outlining them. We are about helping each other with all to do with traditional archery.
His solution was to initially cut some field pointed arrows with an overall length of normal draw length plus a half inch with no more overhang at all. I cut some half an inch longer with field points and put a rubber band half way along the field point. The idea is to have a safe backstop, close your eyes and draw in my case to the rubber band meeting my index finger roughly half an inch ahead of the back of the bow. The key thing is to do this repeatedly for two to three weeks and not shoot at all. I found watching the last couple of cricket tests on TV that a good time was to do this between overs. Dennis stressed the need not to shoot at all during this retraining period and that that was the crucial part of the exercise. It amounts to retraining muscle memory. It becomes a tremendous urge to shoot but the key is not to
After this retraining period, you begin to shoot again, but not at a defined target, but using a blank butt. I'm just at that stage now. Dennis felt at this stage I might have difficulty loosing the arrow. I haven't actually experienced that, but with the bow I've done this with I've found that I'm actually hitting the side of my face with the string release with the increased draw length. Small price to pay and I think I can overcome that with a slight change in face alignment. You must resist the temptation to align with any sort of aiming point at this stage. I've found it very tempting to aim at a mark on the wool bale I use.
Dennis talks in terms of talking through the sequence by mentally saying "draw, 2, 3, anchor, 2, 3, loose, 2, 3" to set up a rhythm. The 'loose, 2, 3' helped Dennis with the follow through when he used this method. It has the potential to slow down your shooting speed to a point where you have more control over the process.
Visualising this shot process when you haven't got a bow in your hand has considerable potential to reinforce this. When you finally get to shooting at a defined target Dennis stressed the need to shoot one arrow at a time and then retrieve it. He stressed the need to think through the draw loose sequence each time. He also talked about the importance of having broadheads and the taper of field points always coming into contact with the bowhand index finger.
I've a bit of a way to go in this program yet but feel its worth the effort. I read an Archery Action article by Dennis a few years ago which improved my longbow shooting almost overnight so I am taking his advice seriously. It's a longer road than some advocate but this being able to shoot a bow presentably is very important stuff.
Simon
This is along the lines of what Tony posted.
I know where you are coming from. I held an Archery Australia veterans barebow record for a couple of years, shot good scores at the ABA nationals with longbow and won an open longbow title at the NZ nationals 3 years ago, but a couple of years ago target panic set in. Some of the time I could control it but it was variable. It's a product of wanting to shoot better and it possibly doesn't happen quite so readily with people who are not ambitious about their shooting. It got particularly bad late last year. I've tried most things recommended in the books and had 3 sessions of hypnotherary late last year. One of the best things was coming to full draw and having my wife count randomly and silently between 1 and seven than calling out to shoot. These things all helped to some degree but to have any chance of completely rectifying the problem seems in my case to require complete re-programming. My problem has presented as a premature release. I get back towards full draw, see what I subconciously register as a presentable sight picture and release before hitting anchor. You get some good arrows but it is a recipe for inconsistency and getting fed up with yourself
I was talking to Dennis La Varenne in a pm and he gave me some very good suggestions. I'm part way through these now. I'm sure Dennis wouldn't mind me briefly outlining them. We are about helping each other with all to do with traditional archery.
His solution was to initially cut some field pointed arrows with an overall length of normal draw length plus a half inch with no more overhang at all. I cut some half an inch longer with field points and put a rubber band half way along the field point. The idea is to have a safe backstop, close your eyes and draw in my case to the rubber band meeting my index finger roughly half an inch ahead of the back of the bow. The key thing is to do this repeatedly for two to three weeks and not shoot at all. I found watching the last couple of cricket tests on TV that a good time was to do this between overs. Dennis stressed the need not to shoot at all during this retraining period and that that was the crucial part of the exercise. It amounts to retraining muscle memory. It becomes a tremendous urge to shoot but the key is not to
After this retraining period, you begin to shoot again, but not at a defined target, but using a blank butt. I'm just at that stage now. Dennis felt at this stage I might have difficulty loosing the arrow. I haven't actually experienced that, but with the bow I've done this with I've found that I'm actually hitting the side of my face with the string release with the increased draw length. Small price to pay and I think I can overcome that with a slight change in face alignment. You must resist the temptation to align with any sort of aiming point at this stage. I've found it very tempting to aim at a mark on the wool bale I use.
Dennis talks in terms of talking through the sequence by mentally saying "draw, 2, 3, anchor, 2, 3, loose, 2, 3" to set up a rhythm. The 'loose, 2, 3' helped Dennis with the follow through when he used this method. It has the potential to slow down your shooting speed to a point where you have more control over the process.
Visualising this shot process when you haven't got a bow in your hand has considerable potential to reinforce this. When you finally get to shooting at a defined target Dennis stressed the need to shoot one arrow at a time and then retrieve it. He stressed the need to think through the draw loose sequence each time. He also talked about the importance of having broadheads and the taper of field points always coming into contact with the bowhand index finger.
I've a bit of a way to go in this program yet but feel its worth the effort. I read an Archery Action article by Dennis a few years ago which improved my longbow shooting almost overnight so I am taking his advice seriously. It's a longer road than some advocate but this being able to shoot a bow presentably is very important stuff.
Simon