Bare shaft tune ?

[BEAST]

Hi everyone just a question
I've got a border black Douglas (the riser is cut past center )
Now I've got my arrows shooting like darts they shoot and spin perfectly and I'm hitting 10 inch targets out to 40meters with it fairly consistent and I'm happy with that now my problem is
I was told to shoot just a bare shaft and it should shoot exactly the same now I just did it then and well it shot pretty close to were I was aiming but while on flight u can see it flys kinda sideways with the nock flying Left
Now I made the strike plate thinner and now in flight the bare shaft again hits close but fish tails like it's trying to correct it selfs but my made up arrows are still shooting perfect and hitting were I aim

I'm happy with how it shoots now should I just stop bare shaft tuning and stick with wat works
A few guys at the club recon i can get better accuracy if it's bare shaft tune
Wats everyone's thoughts ??

[bigbob]

a bare shaft is never going to fly as well as one that's fletched. The whole point of feathers is to correct the archers paradox that occurs when a shaft tries to bend around the arrow plate.Usually out around 20 m it can be a good guide to spine weight, after that too many variables come into play. If a bare shaft impacts in the same area as a fletched arrow then spine weight etc is good, left of a group, usually means under spined [ for right handed shooter] reverse for right impacting arrow . Erratic porpoising after release usually means nock point is out.

[BEAST]

Cheers bob I was think that this bare shaft was suppose to shoot like a dart lol
But i will admit I never did shoot it close usually round 30-45 meters and it was hitting fairly close
I'll just keep shootin it how it is cause it's doing the job for me

[Jim]

So my understanding is that bareshaft tuning will produce more efficient flight which is of consequence if you're trying to shoot the arrow very far or through something (like an animal). As far as accuracy is concerned, a matched set of arrows will fly just like each other and group as well as you can group.

[GrahameA]

Morning.

Cheers bob I was think that this bare shaft was suppose to shoot like a dart lol ...

"Yes" and "No".

"Good" arrows will fly very well and if you have everything set up correctly, in tune and your technique/form is good then there is really no need for fletches other than a slow rotation of the arrow. Fletching is more concerned with resolving the issues of the Archer and everything not being perfect. (Target Archers are able to get good flight out to ranges of 90m with comparatively tiny fletches (vanes) - they also put in a lot of time getting their equipment set up and a lot of time working on there technique/form.)

What you are after is an arrow that is "in tune" with the bow.

So you want an arrow of a suitable spine and point mass such that the natural frequency (vibration) of the arrow matches the bow. i.e. The arrow will go through, essentially, one oscillation as it travels past the riser/handle and the amplitude is such that it clears the bow. At the same time you want the you want the flight of the arrow not to Yaw in flight - so you need a clean release and the brace height such that the arrow leaves the string with the nodes aligned.

So an example of what is not required. The arrow is this clip is showing Yaw. The Target is 30m down range, the arrow has had the (vibration) damped out by time it has this distance yet it is Yawing significantly in flight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Obmz8b7jE

Observe the flight of this arrow (being shot by Greybeard) where the arrow is just oscillating in flight, there is no Yaw observable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wl7KTs17UTc

Here is another example of an arrow/bow combination that is not well matched. In this case the arrow impacts the bow as the frequency was not appropriate for the bow and the archer was not gripping the bow in the correct place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoDNYLJcvrU

Now I've got my arrows shooting like darts they shoot and spin perfectly and I'm hitting 10 inch targets out to 40meters with it fairly consistent and I'm happy with that now my problem is
I was told to shoot just a bare shaft and it should shoot exactly the same ...

If you have good flight and the arrows are impacting at the correct point, and from what you are saying that is implied, IMHO I would not get overly concerned about things. All you may need to do is to tune the bow slightly or leave it alone if you are unsure what you are doing.

[BEAST]

Cheers mate that's was very interesting
And to be honest I think these arrows fly perfect I have even shot them with 190 grain black stump cape Yorkers which are wider then the feathers on the arrow and they fly perfect....I actually think they fly better then with field points .... As long as I do my part with form and release
I only tried this bare shaft thing because one of the guys swearSuggested by it and I thought I'd try it
I might play around a little today with her but I am pretty happy now wit her

[longbowinfected]

I totally agree with Grahame.
I have bare shafted all my arrows out to my most commonly shot furthest target distance, 60m, all the way down to 5 metres whenever I changed any part of my rig but especially at the beginning with a new bow or arrow set up.

I have shot with 4 small low profile 2.5 inch flights for a few years now on alloys and woods. There is great advantage in difficult wind conditions. I could just as easily strip each feather down to the spine and still be ok. Once I tuned my arrows to be the same for all types of shooting I found that this rig worked for 43, 47 and 53 pound bows. Unlike compound and recurve target archers I get the best performance from heavier arrows. With lower profile short fletches the biggest variation occurs because of cross sectional air resistance.
I prefer smaller cross sections as long as they are heavy.

Of course most hunters using trad gear are not going to set up for shots much over 20-25 metres on smaller beasts so they probably do not need to bare shaft. Shooting 60m target or 145m clout or 40m field in 40 km per hour cross winds and / or rain dictate that extra work is necessary if you want to be competitive. You can use bigger feathers to slow your arrow to improve your gaps but for long distance long bow archers that puts you at the mercy of the elements. Most shoots in AA in NSW at SOPA are shot in strong, blustery wind. Same for most clout competitions too.

Do not take this the wrong way, if folk want rules saying how long your feathers should be, fine. I choose not to make arrows that do not have superior performance or make an extra set of arrows. I could never figure out why some independent clubs and other than AA associations have rules stipulating fletch length. Then again you could always put 12 inches on but shave them to a few millimetres of length. Can anyone explain that sort of rule? Or is it a weird sort of discrimination to stop archers from being "different"? Can I shoot there with a flu flu made with 6 x 2 inch flights cut very low?

Kevin

[BEAST]

Cheers mate and yep I see wat ur saying
I'm no comp shooter I very rarely got to club shoots I'm kinda luck as I can hunt every weekend if I choose so that's wat I do
I've never taken game even with a compound over 15 meters
And I'm new to trad so I just wanted a idea of wat ever one thinks lol it's a diffrent game when it comes down to tuning a recurve I'm starting to find out haha

[UPTHETOP]

Why even bother with bare shaft tuning? your hitting 10 inch targets out to 40 mtrs nothing wrong with that. Would be many on this site who would cut off there right arm to get groups like that. Just keep shooting arrows and the groups should stay, until you start tinkering with some thing like (bare shaft tuning).?

Cheers Wayno

[BEAST]

Lol that's wat I was thinking but at the club everyone's a expert and I get conflicting arguments on how to tune like I said before I'm very happy with how it shoots I only tried it because I was told if my bow wouldn't shoot a bare shaft like a flected it wasn't tune so I tried it and it didn't so It got me thinking

[little arrows]

when you are at the club -even if the person giving you the information is hitting the dead centre of the target every single shot from every single distance, that does not mean - what works for him will work for you - if it ain't broke - don't fix it
I have a shocking release and sometimes my arrows fly not so well to the target, as some on here have witnessed - because the spine of the arrow is correct, and the fleathers are doing their job - they get pretty close to the spot I was looking at.

cheers
sue

[Macca]

Why even bother with bare shaft tuning? your hitting 10 inch targets out to 40 mtrs nothing wrong with that. Would be many on this site who would cut off there right arm to get groups like that. Just keep shooting arrows and the groups should stay, until you start tinkering with some thing like (bare shaft tuning).?

Cheers Wayno

Agree, if you can shoot consistent groups like that you are doing better than most.

[BEAST]

U guys have missed the total point of this question
why I ask is because the bare shaft doesn't fly perfect like fletched arrows which is why I was worried and asked this question I have since found out its not suppose to and how ones suppose to bare tune correctly but that's somthing I'm not going to worry about now because I can very consitenly smack a 10inch target out @40 which I found out is apparently pretty good but I'm not going to be happy I'm splitting shafts out that far lol

[UPTHETOP]

Beast havn't missed the point mate its all good, but understand when your starting out everyone will tell you a different way to shoot, tune arrows, hunting set up through time you will pick and choose whats best for you. Bare shaft tuning usually the way I do it" and Im no expert either " is only done out at short distances start at 8 mtrs, then maybe out to 10-12 mtrs (this distance suits me because I am a Bowhunter) if your having problems tuning still. When you buy a new set of wooden shafts( and if you want to get technical getting a good dozen out of 50 shafts is pretty good) for your bow a lot of fletchers will cut the arrow to draw length, then add the nock and point and then shoot the shafts out to 8 mtrs, the ones that hit sideways badly are then discarded ( but when fletched may shoot strait? ), To further the accuracy shoot them out to 10-12 mtrs and only keep the ones that hit strait. Then sort them in weigh to grns and you got your first set which when fletched should all shoot pretty well on the money. Remember this is for wooden arrows those using alloy or carbon may bare shaft completely differently and out to further distances.
This saves the fletcher time as if you went ahead and crested then fletched and finished all the shafts half of them would of been a waist of time and end up being tomoto stakes ( a lot of time and money waisted). fortunately people who have made a few hundred or so arrows pretty well know if the shafts are going to suit the bow or not. Just call it learning experience.
I could go on forever but there are more experienced people on this site with there own method of bare shaft tuning as well.
When time goes on you will learn it can get very technical just as setting a compound up. Wooden Arrows spined properly, tuned properly, weighted properly and shot properly can be just as accurate as the modern materials but who has the time and effort to learn this art in our present rush rush world.
It is good to know you are a bow hunter as well, I am too and have been for many a year. Being in the bush, and the art of getting close and the confidence of your shot is what Trad hunting is all about to me.

Cheers Wayno

[BEAST]

Cheers wayno I wasn't haven ago mate I just feel like a bit of a idiot as I have no idea really about tuneing and I think I got lucky with my combo and I wasn't trying to brag about my distances and I rarely shoot at clubs but a few people who have seen my set up have all had there 2cents on wat I'm doing wrong and to me I'm fairly happy with how I shoot but when I got told bout the bare shaft tuneing I figured I might be able to get more accuracy out of my set up
But when I posted this question I had no idea wat I was doing with bare shaften hhaha I still don't but most of you guys have helped me with ideas on how to go about it and I found out I was wrong which was great lol
Just to give everyone a idea of my set up its
Border black Douglas ultra dx 60inch bow
55 # @28 I draw 27 - 27.5
Carbon express pike drivers 350 cut @ 29inch 3 five inch shield cut feathers
200 grain feld points or 190grain cape Yorkers broadheads
I do realise that the shafts are super stiff for 53#
But that's what I was told to do by the bowyer

[UPTHETOP]

Beast you maybe drawing around the 53lb mark with your bow due to the shorter draw you have. As long as your around the 10 grn per pound your in the ball park. So 530 grn total or higher arrow shouldn't be to light for your bow. A lot of hunters will shoot a heavier arrow set up to 600-650 grns for that bow ( buy having a heavy FOC weight ) but after traveling 15-20 mtrs you will find the arrow will drop very fast which will play on your accuracy. But the usual is a heavier FOC is better penetration. If you practice with the same weight field points as your broad heads your on the money as well. This is another type of tuning and getting your field point arrows to fly the same as the broad heads is another great challenge in itself. Another hint to remember is even if your shafts are to stiff for your bow sometimes raising the FOC ( ETC- CHANGE FROM 200GRN FRONT TO 250GRN THIS WILL SOFFEN YOUR SPINE IN THE ARROW AND OFTEN SAVE YOU A LOT OF DOLLARS IF YOU HAVE ORDERED THE WRONG SPINE TO SUIT YOUR BOW,) more accuracy can be obtained buy trying 125grn,145grn all the way up to 200grn points you will find that one of the weights will shoot better then all the others, this is all a part of tuning the bow and arrow set up.
Its all good fun you where lucky to find the set up that suits your bow so fast as sometimes it will take a few dozen sets before the magic set up is found. Every bow is different, there a little like us I guess.

Cheers Wayno

[BEAST]

Yep I found that half inch in lenght or 10 grains really does make a diffrence the arrows do fly better with 190 grn bh cut @29.5
And @29.5 the 200grain field points are a little crazy but at 29 there perfect
So I settled for 29 inch and I just run two 5 grain washes behind the head makes a big diffrence if I don't which I was super supprised about

[Kendaric]

a bare shaft is never going to fly as well as one that's fletched. The whole point of feathers is to correct the archers paradox that occurs when a shaft tries to bend around the arrow plate.

I totally agree.

I have been shooting for over 30 years, and I have never found the bare shaft test of much value - though others swear by it. I have shot compound, recurve and longbow. One does not shoot normally with unfletched arrows.

It will show 'something' if your spine is way off, but little else-wise. Most shooters aren't consistent enough to get the full use out of 'advanced tuning' technigues. A similar result will be seen with fletched arrows anyway, though maybe not as exaggerated.

Use your spine charts, and the "Stu Miller spine calculator" will put you pretty close on.

http://www.3riversarchery.com/SpineCalc ... asp?pass=2

After that, just 'see' how your arrows are flying.

[Ian Turner]

Hi guys i found that. as i have limited time and space i find that by paper tuning at home walking back to eliminate the possibility of the arrow being straight at that particular distance and then when i am happy with the results there i go to the range and ask someone to watch how they fly over a distance.
If under both scenarios they shoot straight and fly well then thats the combo for me.
Using this method too you can quite often find a number of different shafts, point weight etc will combine to give good results.
Cheers