Plotting the ballistics of your setup

[Jim]

Hey guys,

I watched this video recently of Jimmy Blackmon showing how he plots the ballistics of his setups. I did it myself with one of my bow/arrow combos and found it quite informative. The gist is you pick a spot low on your target and use that as your point of aim (POA) starting at 10m, shoot an arrow, measure the distance from the POA to the point of impact (POI), move back in 5 metre increments always using the same POA, measuring the distance to your POI every shot until you are point on target. You can go beyond that but you're restricted by the height of your target.

It might sound like it only applies to gap shooters but in my little opinion knowledge is power and everyone can get something out of it.

I did anyway, maybe you will too

http://youtu.be/mAEn5cAS6V4

Jim

[Chase N. Nocks]

Thanks Jim,

I will have a look at this tonight.

I think this is what some people call "walking the bridge"??

Rod Jenkins explains it in one of the Masters of the Barebow volumes.. 2 I think.

Larry Yien uses a slightly different technique or the same technique but from a different perspective call his "Gap at bow".

My thoughts not directed as advice to you just my understanding of the best skill development sequence. (that I should follow)

It is my opinion that a certain order be followed to really make either technique work AND expediate the imprinting of the gaps.

Consistent form is the crucial hub to which all your other shooting efforts will plug into. This can be developed with even basic equipment, bow, arrows, and a bale. the tuned arrows and accuracy can come later. In fact if it is attempted too soon you will have little point of reference and just waste more time in the long run. Notice I do not say good form - this can be a long winded (but interesting) debate in itself.

Once satisfied with your form, that is realistically satisfied (unless we are talking about Zen Archery ), THEN it is time to tune arrows to you and the bow. Paper testing gives the most verifiable feedback but can be the most tedious. Then again I wonder if it is more tedious shooting (10's of) thousands of arrows that just don't fly right. Personal look at my quiver and some of my ridiculous shots, would suggest NO, and I should put into action more often what I know should be done.

Accuracy will largely take care of itself at this point because with consistent form and consistent arrow flight you can now TRUST the feedback that you get when you start "walking the bridge" or even using a style that does not consciously gap.

But I don't think we can ever take consistent form for granted. Well the great shots don't seem to anyway. Whenever they start to notice performance issue they all talk of going back to the bale as a starting point. Then it is almost purely mental and gets them back into the right head space.

Now I have written this out it has clarified for me even more deliberately. I have even less excuses now!

Cheers
Troy

[Chase N. Nocks]

Thanks again Jim,

I watched this last night and it was very good. I subscribed to his channel to see what other things he has to say.

What he presented was well thought out. He takes Rod Jenkins' explanation of the gap method just that extra step.

I need to watch the last bit on the longbow/slower bows again.

it was getting late when I finally got to watch it and I was losing concentration.

Cheers
Troy

[Fanto]

I've watches this one also.

my problem is that if I try too hard to set the gap and aim with the point of the arrow I shoot left. just can't fix it. and it's with all bows and arrows and it's not a tuning issue.


anyone else get this?


(I normally shoot in the split vision/ become the arrow sort of way described by Howard hill/ Byron ferguson respectively

[CraigH]

Thanks Jim.

Yeah, Jimmy Blackmon has some great videos.

Because I swap and change bows arrows a bit, I try and plot most. Trying to put the data in an excel spreadsheet, so I can compare rigs and setups.

[Jim]

Troy and Fanto, sorry I've taken so long to reply to this, I somehow missed the fact that anyone posted on it haha

Fanto, it's interesting that you're having a consistent error when you gap. Do you have an Iphone or video camera? I use an app called ubersense on my phone to record slow mo footage of my shooting form. You might get to see a consistently swinging bow arm or plucking string hand or something.

Troy and Craig, I really like a lot of his videos, he's obviously a very good technician of archery. He's published a book too but I've not read it. Craig that's a great idea to plot all of your rigs in a spread sheet. Have you seen any significant differences?

Jim

[wishsong]

Jimmy's a good dude, takes bunch of game regularly, is a world champ and can shoot with the best whether its with his self bows or running his 70" stringwalking rigs.
I spent a few weeks with his coach, Rod Jenkins a few years back ...

You should see these lads on moving targets ....... Wowsers ...

I've run this idea across a few bows and they run pretty close to the chrono ...
Would work better if I shot better

[Chase N. Nocks]

Jimmy's a good dude, takes bunch of game regularly, is a world champ and can shoot with the best whether its with his self bows or running his 70" stringwalking rigs.
I spent a few weeks with his coach, Rod Jenkins a few years back ...

You should see these lads on moving targets ....... Wowsers ...

I've run this idea across a few bows and they run pretty close to the chrono ...
Would work better if I shot better

That is very true Ben.

For those that might think that gapping is an easy out. Consider what good form you need to make the data you get back from each shot valuable.

Especially at the longer distances. Measurements are meaningless unless you are very consistent or you are shooting such high volumes of arrows that you are able to make use of a bell curve graph in your feedback.

The fella can obviously shoot.

Cheers
Troy.

[Jim]

So the theory of the group states that the size of group is in direct proportion to distance to the target. So an archer producing a 10mm group at 1m will produce a 100mm group at 10m and a 1000mm group at 100m. There are other factors that impose themselves rudely on that and one is the archer's capacity to replicate a consistent point of aim, which as you point out Troy is a much more challenging feat when you're lining up your arrow tip with a tree line at 100m rather than a few inches below your point of impact at 20m (another reason why the tiny pins of a compound sight allow accurate shooting... the capacity for a finer point of aim).

That's why for mere mortals like us at 100m our arrows become the worlds most ineffective area of effect weapon. I am in awe of Blackmon and his ability to be aiming at a point target as small as a balloon at 100m and nailing it. But if he is grouping under 100mm at 10m, he could potentially group under 1m at 100m.

All the plotting does is give you a heads up on where you have to put your point of aim in relation to your desired point of impact to put your group around it. Alas my inconsistencies are so consistent as to no longer be considered inconsistencies

Jim

[GrahameA]

Evening Troy.

Especially at the longer distances. Measurements are meaningless unless you are very consistent or you are shooting such high volumes of arrows that you are able to make use of a bell curve graph in your feedback.

Just to ruin your nights sleep or should that be sleeps. Note: Questions will be asked.

https://sites.google.com/site/archerybi ... y/arrows-1

[CraigH]

He's published a book too but I've not read it. Craig that's a great idea to plot all of your rigs in a spread sheet. Have you seen any significant differences?
Jim

Still working on putting the data into a graph, might have to get the missus to help me.




Grahame, some good reading there, thanks for the link.

[Chase N. Nocks]

Evening Troy.

Especially at the longer distances. Measurements are meaningless unless you are very consistent or you are shooting such high volumes of arrows that you are able to make use of a bell curve graph in your feedback.

Just to ruin your nights sleep or should that be sleeps. Note: Questions will be asked.

https://sites.google.com/site/archerybi ... y/arrows-1

LOL. Definitely "Sleeps"

thanks for the link Grahame.

[rodlonq]

Jim,

The original post looks like the procedure is the opposite direction to Rod Jenkins' description in Masters of the bare bow with the same result. By saying opposite I mean he advocates finding the point on distance first and working out in between distances from there.

I had a short go at it and found I was more comfortable just pointing the thing and letting loose. Trying to do too many things at once is too much for me. Mind you I am not a great shooter and mostly only practice at short range due to space restrictions. Perhaps I should put in more effort but I feel disinclined to be using a system (although I must have a basic system that is hard wired over years of not thinking LOL).

All the best with it Jim.

Cheers..... Rod