Newbie Arrows?

[lanky]

Hi All, while i sit waiting for my bow to arrive , thought i would put it out there about arrow choice, is it better to pick a brand and see who is the cheapest from all the suppliers or just grab somthing that pops up on special, my draw length is 31.2. Thanks

[greybeard]

Hi Lanky,

Welcome to Ozbow.

It would be helpful if you could provide some information as to what style of bow:- selfbow, longbow or recurve.

Also the draw weight at your draw length and preference of arrow material:- wood, alloy or carbon.

Daryl.

[lanky]

Ok, it's a recurve, 70'' 30LB@28. With a D-97 STRING, but with my draw length I guess it will up 35 ish LB, I would really like to stick to wood arrows but carbon will probably be more forgiving?.
You can check out a pic of the bow on the " Trade Blanket" section, I bought it from Upthetop!

[Fanto]

if you go carbon, talk to someone who really knows about light target bow tuning.
I don't have any idea which arrow you could use. all the lighter hunting carbons only come 30" long.

cheers

[lanky]

Curse my long arms!

[Fraser]

Hi Lanky, my draw length is 1/2" longer then yours, and I've given up on carbon, most of the shafts are around 32" give or take 1/2". You'll struggle to get a broadhead on any thing under 33", and that just defeats the purpose. Have a chat to "little arrows" her husband Steve should be able to sort you out with suitable length shafts of a couple different timbers.

Fraser

[discord]

G'day lanky, congrats on the new bow..
I haven't been shooting for anywhere near as long as some of the guys here, but I did start out with a very similar bow. I chose carbons when I started out mainly for durability. I assumed (rightly ) that I would miss the target quite often and arrows would hit things that they're not designed to. Like the big tallowwood tree behind my target...
I also found carbons let me keep the total arrow weight quite low, resulting in flatter trajectories from a lower poundage bow. I shot a club bow at a come and try weekend at an ABA club and the heavier arrows had trajectories like footballs over 40m or so.
Unfortunately, like Fanto said, the lighter carbon arrows are usually only 30" long. There are a few exceptions, but no cheapies that I'm aware of.
Wood arrows would definitely be available in the right length, but there is durability and weight to consider.

[woodie]

Hi lanky and welcome. By my chart for a 35#@32" draw you will need 60-65# spine shafts and for for a 35-40# bow 65-70# spine.
This sound wright to the rest of you boys that have a lot more knowlege then myself.
woodie

[Fraser]

Hi lanky and welcome. By my chart for a 35#@32" draw you will need 60-65# spine shafts and for for a 35-40# bow 65-70# spine.
This sound wright to the rest of you boys that have a lot more knowlege then myself.
woodie

Sounds about right Woodie, his draw weights going to be closer to 40# at 32". Might be able to reduce the spine with lighter points.

Fraser.

[GrahameA]

Morning.

Hi Lanky, my draw length is 1/2" longer then yours, and I've given up on carbon, most of the shafts are around 32" give or take 1/2". ....

Have you considered shafts that are sold for use with Yumis?

[Fraser]

Morning.

Hi Lanky, my draw length is 1/2" longer then yours, and I've given up on carbon, most of the shafts are around 32" give or take 1/2". ....

Have you considered shafts that are sold for use with Yumis?

I didn't even now they existed Grahame, I've just been using 34" 7/16" vic ash shafts. Are the yumi shafts carbon or bamboo?

Fraser

[slinkymalinky]

I think Carbon Impact Ultra Fast target arrows come in 32" even in their lightest spine weights. I haven't used them but I was having a look at them for my kids when I was in Oz Hunting and Bows. Give Chris or Dave a call there and they could probably confirm.

Cheers, Tony

[GrahameA]

Morning.

Morning.

Hi Lanky, my draw length is 1/2" longer then yours, and I've given up on carbon, most of the shafts are around 32" give or take 1/2". ....

Have you considered shafts that are sold for use with Yumis?

I didn't even now they existed Grahame, I've just been using 34" 7/16" vic ash shafts. Are the yumi shafts carbon or bamboo?

Fraser

They exist. They are available in Carbon, Aluminum and wood/bamboo.

Easton carbon shafts, size 80-23. Please see our pamphet here for weights. 111 cm long. Tips are not yet put on the shafts, so please select what shaft length you would like.

http://www.longshotkyudo.com/shop?page= ... gory_id=17

You would need to look at suppliers to see what they have

[Fraser]

They exist. They are available in Carbon, Aluminum and wood/bamboo.

Easton carbon shafts, size 80-23. Please see our pamphet here for weights. 111 cm long. Tips are not yet put on the shafts, so please select what shaft length you would like.

http://www.longshotkyudo.com/shop?page= ... gory_id=17

You would need to look at suppliers to see what they have[/quote]

They'd work for some one using a lite bow, 80-23 are spined to 20kg draw weight. May be able to get bamboo, have seen some advertised as above 92#. I'll stick to the vic ash I think, they've served me well.

Fraser

[lanky]

Excellent info guys!! looks like i have more homework to do!

[bigbob]

Just as an aside I'm 6'4'' in the 'old scale' and draw about 30 1/2'' with --- gasp --- a wheelie bow! and only 29'' with a stick bow.

[Fraser]

Just as an aside I'm 6'4'' in the 'old scale' and draw about 30 1/2'' with --- gasp --- a wheelie bow! and only 29'' with a stick bow.

Draw length seems to change when your under more load, the compression through your body, I'm 6'5" with a 33" wheely bow draw, 32" with a sixty pound, and 1/2" less again with 95# and 123# bows. The extra wieght seems to compress any available play in your joints. I don't know whether this gets better or worse with age.

Fraser

[bigbob]

Somehow I've altered over the years that's for sure as many moons ago I had to fit extensions to my full length hunting woods so I didn't draw over the shelf with the broadhead

[Fraser]

Somehow I've altered over the years that's for sure as many moons ago I had to fit extensions to my full length hunting woods so I didn't draw over the shelf with the broadhead

Yah Bob, I've learnt about those problems the hard way.

Fraser

[lanky]

I'm 6'6!, I've been told my draw length will probably increase as my experience does!, I'm just going to cut some broom handles in half!

[Ronster]

Hi Guy's, I have to differ a little on spine. Through my experience when I first started I had a 68" longbow 48"@ 28"" pulling around 45# with my 27" draw length. I started with 60-65# spine 11/32" arrows as advised by experiences archers, however they came off the bow like logs. After buying several different spine arrows, I settled on 45-50 spine. The big thing for me though was to start with long arrows, bare shaft and cut off 1/8" at a time until the arrows flew straight and grouped with the fletched arrows. I would suggest Lanky that you get as much info on tuning arrows as possible and experiment until you find the correct arrow dimension and spine for your bow. Also do you shoot straight up and down or do you cant the bow?, this will have an effect also, as a stiff arrow will come out left of target and a weak arrow will go right of target. An old rule of thumb I dug up, was for hunting arrows to be 5-10# above spine for Hunting and 5# below spine for Target shooting. I would still go for bare shaft tuning, and refine with paper tuning to bring absolute tuning of your arrows to your bow.
PS- Treat carbon the same as woods, if you can get long enough shafts.
Ronster

[Fanto]

ronster

lanky draws almost 5 inches longer than you,
standard rule is about 5lbs extra arrow spine per
inch of arrow length

so your 50lb spine arrows would need to be 75lb at Lanky"s draw as a starting point
given the same bow weight at the draw length.

[GrahameA]

Morning

lanky draws almost 5 inches longer than you,
standard rule is about 5lbs extra arrow spine per
inch of arrow length

so your 50lb spine arrows would need to be 75lb at Lanky"s draw as a starting point
given the same bow weight at the draw length.

Yes.

To that add the effect of lengthening the arrow.

As you increase the draw length the force being applied to the end of the arrow increases.
At the same time the "effective" spine value of the arrow goes down.

[Ronster]

Hi Fanto, I agree it does make some difference but not by that much. As I said check out the arrow tuning charts, thats where the best info can be found and there is no substitute for correct arrow tuning method.
My results came from personal experience, which will be different for all. Just my opinion and friendly advice. its less expensive to get it right first time.

Ron

[Fanto]

G'day Ron

no worries mate, I'm just conscious that lanky needs specific guidance here , so saying "not that much" is all good and well but if you can quantify what you say then it will be more helpful.

AMO standards and Stu Millers calculator all seem to agree about 5lb of spine per inch of arrow, what have you found?

I have an average draw so I cut arrows to my exact requirement and change tip weight only to tune but lanky has such a long draw that carbon and aluminum arrows will be hard to source

[Ronster]

Hi Fanto, my understanding is 2-3#( Not exact) and may differ between bow type etc. Lanky states his draw weight is about 35# because of his 31" + draw length, 30# Bow @28" this is nearer the mark at approx 2-3# per inch so even at 40# a 65 -70# arrow is too stiff (in my opinion). But the arrow charts put out by Easton, Carbon Express and the like, all have tables as a guide that will be a good starting point for Lanky. These can be downloaded for free from their respective sites. Then use the arrow tuning methods also available online (Bare shafting and Paper Tuning) to tune the arrow to the bow. No Mistake, this is far better then just giving a spine weght. Spine/Stiffness is more an issue if shooting straight up and down as apposed to canting the bow, I have freinds that cant almost parallel to the ground. Some people may not want to go this far, but I love the technics behind archery and if I can get everything right and my scores and results are poor, then its all down to me and not the equipment.
PS I have a freind 2 time Ausie champ who say,s Quote "listen to the bow, it tells you when it is happy" This is also in deciding on brace height with the arrow, it is quietest at the optimum tune. Just something else to wet the appetite and good for more discussion.
Ron

[Fanto]

Ronster

Here are the AMO standards.

http://peteward.com/AMOStandards.pdf

32" arrow, 35-40lb bow weight, requires .400 spine deflection or in other words, static spine equivalent at 28" of 65#.

If the arrow was 29" long AMO says the spine should be .520 or in other words static spine equivalent of 50# @ 28

As I said, the AMO standard is 5 pounds extra spine per inch of arrow length.

Lanky,

having checked your numbers on AMO and goldtip's calculator, you could start with goldtip 5575s full length (32") when you add the nock (0.5") you should get the broadhead clearance you need.

I would recommend you get GT ultralights or XT Hunter in black, to keep weight down and point weight up for tuning. start at 120gr and continue to increase tip weight to tune.

GT traditional 5575s are a little heavier and behave a bit stiffer, not much good from 40lb bows, a mate of mine has the same issues you do and is using the 5575 trads, they arent flying well at all.

cheers

[Ronster]

Well Fanto,"I think after reviewing all of our comments, that we are saying almost the same thing, but in a different way. My understanding is that, and correct me if I am wrong, that a wood arrow is spined at 26". So at a length of 32" a 65-70# spined arrow is 6 X 5# making a 32" arrows actual spine of 35-40#. and in this case is much more in line with my thinking. To me spine is only a guide to get you close. When bare shafts group with fletched shafts there is an arrow tuned to the bow and the spine is whatever it is. Other considerations for me are type of shooting, eg - Hunting or Target shooting. The main reason I bring this in is because most hunters prefer heavier arrows, where my preference is Target shooting and lighter arrows are the go, so arrow diameter could also be considered.

Ronster

[woodie]

Someting you could try is bamboo garden spicks. I have been trying them with my 60# longbow and have had no probs, as my bow likes heavey spine arrows, around 75# for a 60#@ 28'" there is no probs hitting targets at 5m or at 50m, as long as I am correctly.
I just got 24 8mm (there abouts) for $6 from a cheap shop. They would be heaveyer in spine but they may be an option for your draw length.
All you have to do is staighten them with the heat gun.
Longbowinfected has been uing them for a will adI think he loves them.
Ron woodie

[Fanto]

Ronster,

gday yes I think we agree, of course the spine charts are just a starting point. I really believe that for a traditional, barebow beginner all that matters is that the arrows fly well and dont barrel roll or porpoise, are safe and are not too light for the bow.

the AMO standard arrow spine measurement is taken at 26" and is measured in thousandths of an inch. so a .500 spine arrow means that a 26" arrow, when burdened with a 2lb weight, defleced .500 of an inch. this is the AMO deflection.

AMO static spine comes from the AMO spine chart, which takes into account point weight and arrow length. a bow's spine requirement is determined by draw weight, draw length and centrecut.

the "baseline" for the spine charts is that a 50lb bow, cut 1/8 before centre, drawn to 28", shooting a 28" arrow with a 120gr tip, requires a .500 spine shaft.