Choosing Right or Left Handed Equipment

[rodlonq]

I found this article particularly interesting as I was about to make an ambidextrous bow for my wife's cousin. Turns out that you really need ambidextrous eyes for this to be successful I always thought I was just a RS shot with left handed gear, now I know why.

http://www.archeryexchange.com/shopcont ... ?type=rolh

Cheers..... Rod

[hazard]

Never had much of a problem swapping from time to time But I know its not for everyone, Lefties seem too have the advantage in these situations.

Hazard

[Fraser]

I'm right handed and I shot a bow left handed, it comes down to wich eye is more dominant, and my left eye is much stronger than my right. My eldest son is the same, my middle son right handed at most things, and my youngest son seems to be ambidextrous. We're all a bit ambidextrous. I can shoot right handed, just not as well.

You can work out which eye is dominant by pointing at some thing with both eyes open, then closing each eye inturn, as you look at the object with each eye, the dominant eye will appear to keep your finger on the object, and with the non-dominant eye your finger will appear to move off the object.

Cheers,

Fraser.

[littlejohn59]

I shoot both eyes open with trad. So the dominant eye approach shouldn't matter unless you shoot a wheelie or use sights.

[Fraser]

I shoot both eyes open with trad. So the dominant eye approach shouldn't matter unless you shoot a wheelie or use sights.

So do I, If your right handed and right eye dominant everything will work as it should, vice versa for left hand. The problems start when your dominant eye is different to your dominant hand. Using sights hides the problem, shooting both eyes open exposes it. Trap and skeet shooters that have this problem where shooting glasses that make the dominant eye blurry, forcing the non-dominant eye to work.

Fortunately most people have the dominant hand and eye on the same side of the body, or the difference between thier eyes is small enough to make little difference.

Fraser

[hazard]

So do I, If your right handed and right eye dominant everything will work as it should, vice versa for left hand. The problems start when your dominant eye is different to your dominant hand. Using sights hides the problem, shooting both eyes open exposes it. Trap and skeet shooters that have this problem where shooting glasses that make the dominant eye blurry, forcing the non-dominant eye to work.

Fortunately most people have the dominant hand and eye on the same side of the body, or the difference between thier eyes is small enough to make little difference.

Fraser

I reckon it pretty much sums it up for the vast majority.

Double shelving does however allow a bow to be passed about more easily especially when selling, passing it down or sharing with a beginner with the other hand. I do try to purchase double shelvers more often these days especially for the above. I am all about encouraging the beginners.

I have found that shooting both eyes open and instinctive does make it easier to swap hands, but I recently used a friends compound in the opposite hand and sighted and did quite well, I thought.

I believe it is a good rule of thumb for most but not always a hard and fast rule, Injuries, physical limitations, personal pref, make swapping hands more desirable to some people and they are by no way a lesser archer IMO.

Hazard

[rodlonq]

Hi Littlejohn,

I shoot with both eyes open too, but always right handed. I have done some experiments. Closing my left eye leaves very little to look at, big nose in the way plus bow hand and riser tend to hide the target area a lot. Having the left eye open gives a much broader view of the target area. My problem is when shooting left handed, my right eye is so dominant that it is lining up the point of the arrow with the target, meanwhile my anchor point is 3" to the left anchored under my left eye. So I release and the arrow goes to the right a long way. If I close my right eye, my left eye takes over and the alignment is a lot better but then the sight picture is very constricted. My conclusion is, you have to anchor under your dominant eye. The link I posted explains it much better than me.

I guess other people may not have the same degree of dominance is I do. I am also very clumsy doing anything needing fine motor skills. I can lift just as much with left as right (e.g.. dumbbells) but you cant read my scrawl when I try to write left handed.

Cheers...... Rod

[Fraser]

Hi Rod, my problem is similar to yours, despite being righ handed I can't shoot a right handed bow with any accuracy. I can shoot a rifle right handed because my left eye is shut, I can only shoot a shotgun with my left eye shut, if I shoot with both eyes open my shots will constantly go to the right of where I think I'm aiming.

Fraser

[hazard]

Hi Rod, my problem is similar to yours, despite being righ handed I can't shoot a right handed bow with any accuracy. I can shoot a rifle right handed because my left eye is shut, I can only shoot a shotgun with my left eye shut, if I shoot with both eyes open my shots will constantly go to the right of where I think I'm aiming.

Fraser

Interesting!

My oldest Son Writes R/H and kicks R/Foot but most other things is L/H Archery in particular. He really struggles to shoot a bow R/H but me being an out and out leftie can switch without too much trouble. Longbowinfected seems to have the same ability as well. Another mate I shoot with is r/handed and can switch quite readily but has a couple of settling in shots like I do.

I think L/ Hander's have been forced to adapt to everything their entire life maybe through doing this we have been conditioned to switch hands more than others.

If you get a r/h 20-30#bow and come to full draw for a minute with no intention of letting go. You will find your self re-adjusting your bow arm to get better line, but you may have to squint your left eye just the slightest bit. Somehow doing this I found myself able to choose which eye dominates the shot. All the so called experts can scream till dooms day but it worked for me. Practice will probably get most people there but others might just not be wired that way.

Give it a go

[Fraser]

Hi Grayson, I can shoot a bow right handed as long as I close my left eye, but that only really works on the range and at closer rangers. My eldest son has the same problem I do, middle son is purely right handed, and the youngest son is either ampiedextours or left handed.

The only positive is that it seems to be difficult for me to overbow myself.

Fraser

[hazard]

Hi Graydon, I can shoot a bow right handed as long as I close my left eye, but that only really works on the range and at closer rangers. My eldest son has the same problem I do, middle son is purely right handed, and the youngest son is either ambidextrous or left handed.

The only positive is that it seems to be difficult for me to over bow myself.

Fraser

I understand what you mean

Try what I said anyway, as simple as it sounds I really picked up when i went up through the poundage.

Hazard

[GrahameA]

Morning All

From a personal view I would like to see some hard facts or studies rather than opinions.

At one stage the concept of going with eve dominance and modifying the handness of the archer was pushed. Currently there seems to be a preference to to go with handness and modifying the eye dominance.

Coming from another viewpoint - if iI was working with a young Basebakk player today I would just teach them to be able to bat left and right handed, ie become ambidexterous.

(And why Baseball? Well I know a little about it and there has been a fair bit written on the subject.}

Some reads:

http://psychedonline.com/2003/06/06/fea ... rformance/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance

http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/a ... inance.pdf

Big read

http://www.academia.edu/1072116/INTERAC ... _ARCHERY_1

[Fraser]

Hi Grahame, I am simply applying the training I received in the Army in respect to to training people to use firearms. I know there is big difference between a bow, and an assault rifle, but the principles are the same when it comes to aiming things.

Fraser

[kerrille]

as an army shooting instructor many years ago if we had right hand left eye dominant we used to get them to shoot with both eyes open ,but put an eye patch over the left eye.it worked quite well.

...nev..

[Fraser]

Still do much the same Nev, the only exception I've seen was one guy who was so left eye dominant that every time he would try to shut his left eye, the right eye would shut with it. He could shut his right eye and the left woud stay open. There was nothing for it except for him to shoot left handed, except then he struggled to get he required groups.

Fraser

[hazard]

Grahame
Anyone can map out put up charts quote all the documentation you like but nothing compares to hands on experience

This forum IMO is entirely about opinions, Cold hard personal experience by far out weighs any thing written....by someone else, I reckon Fraser and Kerille's personal experience merit especially because it is first hand experience. On ya Lads!

Coming from another viewpoint - if I was working with a young Baseball player today I would just teach them to be able to bat left and right handed, ie become ambidextrous.

(And why Baseball? Well I know a little about it and there has been a fair bit written on the subject.}

I would be far more interested in your own personal experience with base ball and how it relates to this subject as you tell me you have good experience.

Poindexters in lab coats cant measure map out or graph gut instinct or raw talent like someone who has been there respectfully speaking make their point with a far more modest delivery. You cant help but admire these kind of people when you meet them



Hazard

[Fraser]

Thanks Hazard, when a person states an opinion, people tend to treat it as such, it's not all there is to say about the subject and the discussion is not over, it's taken with a a grain of salt, it's just an opinion after all.

But when a report is published, particularly from a corporate identity, people tend to but more faith in it, a forget that their is a vested interest in that report that is placing a bias on the results.

I'v always found that you need to get as much information as you can than try it for your self, and rember there is more than one way to do things, what works for one person my not work for the next.

That's my two cents worth,

Fraser.

[Gilly]

Grahame
Anyone can map out put up charts quote all the documentation you like but nothing compares to hands on experience

This forum IMO is entirely about opinions, Cold hard personal experience by far out weighs any thing written....by someone else, I reckon Fraser and Kerille's personal experience merit especially because it is first hand experience. On ya Lads!


Hazard

Well said!

[GrahameA]

Morning All

I would be far more interested in your own personal experience with base ball and how it relates to this subject as you tell me you have good experience.

Certainly.

As an example, a "Batter" who is right eye dominant and who bats right handed has their dominant eye positioned such that the dominant eye looks across the bridge of the nose at the incoming target - and the view is partially obscured. Archers have a similar situation in which the dominant eye may be parialy obscured by the bridge of the nose.

Studies have shown - which apparently are of no value - have shown that the hit rate can be improved by teaching the batter to bat left handed. Interesting outcome and it has implications when people are trying to hit moving targets

[Fraser]

Hi Rod, my problem is similar to yours, despite being righ handed I can't shoot a right handed bow with any accuracy. I can shoot a rifle right handed because my left eye is shut, I can only shoot a shotgun with my left eye shut, if I shoot with both eyes open my shots will constantly go to the right of where I think I'm aiming.

Fraser

Interesting!

My oldest Son Writes R/H and kicks R/Foot but most other things is L/H Archery in particular. He really struggles to shoot a bow R/H but me being an out and out leftie can switch without too much trouble. Longbowinfected seems to have the same ability as well. Another mate I shoot with is r/handed and can switch quite readily but has a couple of settling in shots like I do.

I think L/ Hander's have been forced to adapt to everything their entire life maybe through doing this we have been conditioned to switch hands more than others.

If you get a r/h 20-30#bow and come to full draw for a minute with no intention of letting go. You will find your self re-adjusting your bow arm to get better line, but you may have to squint your left eye just the slightest bit. Somehow doing this I found myself able to choose which eye dominates the shot. All the so called experts can scream till dooms day but it worked for me. Practice will probably get most people there but others might just not be wired that way.

Give it a go

Hi Grayson, I tried your technique with Cain's right handed recurve (I fell dirty, there's something unnatural about a recurve, thier to short and have funny bends in the limbs) it works if I briefly shut my left eye and line every thing up with my right eye, then reopen the left and then release.

I think I'll stay left handed.

Fraser.

[greybeard]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_dominance

"It has been asserted that cross-dominance (in which the dominant eye is on one side and the dominant hand is on the other) is advantageous in sports requiring side-on stances (e.g. baseball, cricket, golf);[14] however, recent[when?] studies have shown this not to be the case. In a study of professional baseball players, hand-ocular dominance patterns did not show an effect on batting average or ERA.[15] Similarly, in 2005, a South African study found that "cricketers were not more likely to have crossed dominance" than the normal population.[16]

Ocular dominance is an important consideration in predicting patient satisfaction with monovision correction in cataract surgery,[17] refractive surgery, and contact lens wear."

Daryl.

[rodlonq]

I am so strongly right eye dominant that when drawing my sons LH bow i can see the target behind the tip of the point but I can also see see rest of the shaft is no pointing at it. It is kind of a mirror of the picture I get if I use my RH bow and anchor with my drawing hand 3" to the right of my cheek. It all gets even weirder when adding in a lot of cant.

[hazard]

Hi Graydon, I tried your technique with Cain's right handed recurve (I fell dirty, there's something unnatural about a recurve, thier to short and have funny bends in the limbs) it works if I briefly shut my left eye and line every thing up with my right eye, then reopen the left and then release.

I think I'll stay left handed.

I must admit I did it for a whole day ( well over 120-150 shots) and at the end of the day my right shoulder ached like a ba$tard but i was using a 40# bow at the time.

The 26# bow I only tried for a couple of hours a week or 2 before but it helped inspire trying it out. I am starting to think it would be worth doing more regularly but also put in moving targets At the end of that day I was getting quite a bit of co-ordination but my form started deteriorating because of muscle fatigue.

I got the idea when a friend told e the army got 5 blokes with .22 pump actions to spend 3 days throwing washers in the air and shooting them. Apparently they were hitting them quite confidently before the end of the first day. I really don't know if it is true but the theory is sound.

What I learned impressed me enough to seriously consider making more of an effort to mimick it with a bow right and left handed. Just gotta sort out a moving target.

I reckon if I am shooting at moving targets it will force me to forget eye dominance and improve accuracy.

Certainly.

As an example, a "Batter" who is right eye dominant and who bats right handed has their dominant eye positioned such that the dominant eye looks across the bridge of the nose at the incoming target - and the view is partially obscured. Archers have a similar situation in which the dominant eye may be parialy obscured by the bridge of the nose.

That's better Grahame we'll get you there soon enough

Hazard

[Fraser]

Grayson, Shooting at moving targets helps, unless you start missing all over the place with no consistency. Then it'll do you head in

Fraser

[GrahameA]

... I got the idea when a friend told e the army got 5 blokes with .22 pump actions to spend 3 days throwing washers in the air and shooting them. Apparently they were hitting them quite confidently before the end of the first day. I really don't know if it is true but the theory is sound. ....

Should have used a "Daisy BB" gun

It was popluar in the early 1960's.

... The quick kill method was outlined in Principles of Quick Kill, and was taught starting with a special Daisy BB gun that had no sights. The slow moving steel BB was visible in flight on sunny days, making it an inexpensive tracer round. The students began by firing at 3.5 inches (8.9 cm) diameter metal disks thrown in the air slightly in front of the student and 2 metres (6.6 ft) to 4 metres (13 ft) above the student's head. After an 80% hit rate is attained firing at these disks, the student is then presented with 2.5 inches (6.4 cm) diameter disks. Once proficiency is attained with the aerial targets, it shows the student has mastered the fundamentals, and training moves on to stationary targets on the ground, first with the BB gun and then with a service rifle having its front and rear sights taped over.

The Daisy company commercially sold sightless BB guns and target throwers for a number of years under the name Quick Skill, along with an instruction book that was a demilitarized version of the aerial target portion of the "quick kill" course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting

[hazard]

... I got the idea when a friend told e the army got 5 blokes with .22 pump actions to spend 3 days throwing washers in the air and shooting them. Apparently they were hitting them quite confidently before the end of the first day. I really don't know if it is true but the theory is sound. ....

Should have used a "Daisy BB" gun

It was popluar in the early 1960's.

... The quick kill method was outlined in Principles of Quick Kill, and was taught starting with a special Daisy BB gun that had no sights. The slow moving steel BB was visible in flight on sunny days, making it an inexpensive tracer round. The students began by firing at 3.5 inches (8.9 cm) diameter metal disks thrown in the air slightly in front of the student and 2 metres (6.6 ft) to 4 metres (13 ft) above the student's head. After an 80% hit rate is attained firing at these disks, the student is then presented with 2.5 inches (6.4 cm) diameter disks. Once proficiency is attained with the aerial targets, it shows the student has mastered the fundamentals, and training moves on to stationary targets on the ground, first with the BB gun and then with a service rifle having its front and rear sights taped over.

The Daisy company commercially sold sightless BB guns and target throwers for a number of years under the name Quick Skill, along with an instruction book that was a demilitarized version of the aerial target portion of the "quick kill" course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Point_shooting

Its funny you should say that, the conversation about the pump action .22 and the army came about when i told my old mate Tom when i was 12 skimming shale over our dam at home and hitting it with my air riffle.

It doesnt take long to get your eye in, you really chew through air riffle pellets and it is much easier if someone throws it for you. But i had my heart set on developing my skills with a bow ambidextorous of course.

My youngest is nuts about the rolling disc at Wisemans Ferry.


Hazard

[Fraser]

Starting to get a bit of topic, but practicing shooting with an air rifle helps your shooting technique. With an air rifle the slug is in the barrel much longer than with a normal rifle, as a result any poor form in regards to follow through is amplified.

Now can we apply that to archery?

Fraser.

[rodlonq]

Use a 25# bow with 750 grain huntin' arras perhaps ? If you drop your bow hand it will shoot low because the arra is on the shelf for a long time......

Cheers........ Rod

[hazard]

Starting to get a bit of topic, but practicing shooting with an air rifle helps your shooting technique. With an air rifle the slug is in the barrel much longer than with a normal rifle, as a result any poor form in regards to follow through is amplified.

Now can we apply that to archery?

Fraser.

Absolutely!!!
Rob Mckenzie at Wisemans made it as simple as it gets!
An old slipperydip set up to roll high density foam discs along a back up wall of
Conveyer belt rubber.

Doesnt get simpler than that. Unreal fun.

There is of course a safety barrier for the one doing the rolling.
HVTA do this as well as i would guess many others do.

I just want have it automated at home for my own entertainment.

Hazard

[Fraser]

Could you adapt a skeet thrower to do it?