100# Hunting recurve, what would it be like?

[hazard]

There was a really annoying voice in the back of my head and I double checked the arrow weight! 810 gns! not 870! Sorry Lads

so I double checked my info After realising I was a goober for miss quoting

680gn Carbons were 196 F/P/S and the 810 gn woods were 175 F/P/S varying again about 3-4 F/P/S in shot.

As for Draw Length on this bow it is 29 1/4 draw with this bow nearly exactly, Rob Nicoll got 80@ 28 when it was made but I reckon it has lost maybe a pound or 2 over time, use and bedding in. Brace height poundage really gets your attention and glides through the draw from there on. I had Nick Lintern re-check and it is dead on 80# at my draw length now.

Many people comment how fast it sounds at Wisemans and I does have a very Chrisp sound when it shoots. The Chrono speeds were taken about 1 week after I got the bow. I fired a couple of different arrows through it but the speed didn't vary much except when I put a light under spined carbon through it and it spiked quite a bit but I can't remember what speed, but I didn't write those speeds down in my book.

All I can say Rob did say it would be about that speed.

[Fraser]

175fps with a 810gr arra is still good for an 80lb bow. I really hope the crony at the club is working, I want to compar the 95# with the warbow with same arrows. I know the warbow is faster, I just don't know how much.

Fraser.

[hazard]

175fps with a 810gr arra is still good for an 80lb bow. I really hope the crony at the club is working, I want to compar the 95# with the warbow with same arrows. I know the warbow is faster, I just don't know how much.

Fraser.

Strangely the fastest times were acheived out a lighter poundage bow, there were about 5 or 6 of us comparing speeds and bows, I think it was a 1 pce recurve. My bow wasn't the fastest thats for sure. But doesn't it hit with a thump and a good 4" more penetration

[toz]

theres an idea Ive been making my own tabs (and my mates) for years. calf skin is great and not to expensive(burnished) if you were keen I could post some copies of my tabs templates? You would need access to an old singer sewing machine and some manual dexterity to make a usable set of tabs and you can make them to fit your own hand be it left or right.

[Fanto]

id love to chrono the hunter that this thread is about.

it would be phenomenally fast. I reckon it would move an 800gr arrow at well over 200fps, and a 1000gr arrow at mid 170s.

I let a few 650ge arrows go from 25" or so of draw and they were quick.

just need a vice, a tirfor and a very strong release aid!

[Fraser]

175fps with a 810gr arra is still good for an 80lb bow. I really hope the crony at the club is working, I want to compar the 95# with the warbow with same arrows. I know the warbow is faster, I just don't know how much.

Fraser.

Strangely the fastest times were acheived out a lighter poundage bow, there were about 5 or 6 of us comparing speeds and bows, I think it was a 1 pce recurve. My bow wasn't the fastest thats for sure. But doesn't it hit with a thump and a good 4" more penetration

Speed is only half the story, a bow has to be able to through a heavy arrow fast, it's speed plus weight that gives momentum, it's momentum that gives penetration and slows down the lose of speed. It's also the weight that helps fight against drag. People seam to over look these things (I know you know this already Graydon) people think that a heavy bow fires a heavy arra with only a little gain in speed, and there fore isn't worth the effort. A 90# longbow and a 60# longbow are completely different beasts, and I'm not talking about the effort it takes to draw them back. Their performance is not even on the same page. Rant over.

Fraser

[Fraser]

id love to chrono the hunter that this thread is about.

it would be phenomenally fast. I reckon it would move an 800gr arrow at well over 200fps, and a 1000gr arrow at mid 170s.

I let a few 650ge arrows go from 25" or so of draw and they were quick.

just need a vice, a tirfor and a very strong release aid!

Instead of the release aid just a piece of rope and a machete. Like some sort of ballista.!

Fraser

[Fanto]

Fraser,

Ill do it and take a video. sounds like fun.

cheers

[Fraser]

You'll need to make a little gun carige to mount it on

Fraser.

[Fanto]

It would look like some sort of leonardo Da Vinci seige warfare machine!

i reckon just a few scaffold poles to make a square will be good, bow strapped to one end, pulley system for the string at the other.

[Fraser]

Sounds like it would work, I want to see those chrono results.

Fraser.

[scuzz]

I do find these chrono results interesting. Do you think if you went below 800gr, a large jump in speed would be seen??

A few years ago (when i was in form ) I was shooting my Norseman flat laid longbow through the chrono. Its 75lb at 29", with my draw being 29.5" (well im starting to doubt this lately with the amount of overhang from my shafts, but maybe i was simply stretching further then). But we were getting 214fps with a 740gr arrow. Im aware this is pretty extreme, and am now wondering if the chrono was faulty . On that note, I should probably try it again when the opportunity presents itself before i quote such figures .

But i am interested if 70odd grains would make THIS much of a difference. Or if heavy draw weight, combined with a longer draw gives such a raise in speed. I always shot at my limit in draw weight, and tried to stretch to my fullest when shooting as i believed a benefit was gained of flatter projectory while still getting ample penetration for hunting.

Maybe these potentially overshot results drove me down this belief all this time.

Scuzz

[Fraser]

Scuzz, the longer draw length maters when we talk about jumping up 4", I doubt stretching an extra 1/2" would change much for the individual, the difference between a good and a bad release will have more effect than that. My 2 cents

Fraser.

[Fanto]

scuzz


your results there suggest 214fps at just under 10grains per pound, which doesnt seem right to me

ive not yet seen a bow shoot over 180 fps at 10gpp, including my own martin recurves, a predator recurve, the stotler i shoot.

chronographs, in my experience, can vary a little with light conditions changing or being less than ideal

cheers

[scuzz]

Yea I believe that recurves are superior to longbows in both cast and accuracy, and so therefore find it hard to believe such results. Im not trying to take anything away from Nick though. Hes a great mate and a great bowyer.

Thanks for the replys

Im looking forward to seeing the results from this ballista aswell

Scuzz

[Fanto]

Scuzz

I dont feel that my recurves are in any way more accurate than my longbows.

some recurves are faster, some slower, same with longbows!

[scuzz]

It was only an opinion of mine comming from my experiences and observations.

I know i shoot better with a recurve, than longbow. And at most traditional competitions ive seen, the top scorers are generally recurve shooters, with the odd longbow from now and then.

Well actually, i think there was a post about different arrow speeds, from different types of bows. Where asiatics (and i would assume recurves, but JMO) shoot lighter arrows faster than a longbow, yet a longbow can shoot a heavier arrow faster. This possibly making recurves higher scoring with lighter shafts at comps.

Having said all that, im a longbow man!

Scuzz

[hazard]

Hey Scuzz
I am frequently told the scores are very similar for Recurves V longbow but the Chrono speeds i saw that day were really amazing home truths.

The bows i really thought were fast averaged out surprisingly similar to each other. Higher poundage did help but not as much as i was expecting and no where as good as i had hoped.

One fellow had an asiatic bow with a thumb ring and i was again surprised it was one of the slower bows being put over the chrono i wasnt expecting that at all. He did spend some time talking it up, but the guy unfortunately also kept clipping the chrono his form wasnt all that fluid and didnt look co-ordinated so maybe a more experienced hand would get better results.

We all spent quite a while playing with different arrows and bows just experimenting and watching.

I do have more faith in a heavy bow with a heavy arrow, i do shoot better with a recurve but also believe shooting a long bow especially off the knuckle helps me shoot better with a recurve IMO.


Hazard

[Fraser]

I can't comment on longbow v recurve, I don't have much experience with recurves. How ever on my short experience with ELB I've noticed something I can't explain. With a Howard Hill pattern longbow I have always torqed the bow on the odd shot, it doesn't mater what the draw weight is, it still happens every now and again. I know what causes it, the way I hold the bow and position my arm and shoulders, but every know and again I forget and spray one of to the right. However with the ELB I don't torque the bow, my groups aren't quite as tight and I still have a shocker from time to time, but the bad shot is just as likely to go right, high, or low, as it is to go left.

The warbow is 25lb heavier than any of my other bows. Any ideas on why this would be?

Fraser.

[scuzz]

Yea im not a fan of the howard hill grip. I have shot with one for years, but i think the stretched cylinder type shape could encourage the torqueing as i dont think its a natural position for your wrist to be in.

Im definately a fan of a bulbous type of handle, im not sure if thats what is refered to a 'locator grip' or not, but it seems to make 'pushing through the palm' feel more natural and it seems to match the shape of the inside of the palm better

Although lately while learning to make bows, it seems that the smaller the grip is, the better it feels for me. I find myself having to force myself off the file before the handles gone!

Scuzz

[Fraser]

Yea im not a fan of the howard hill grip. I have shot with one for years, but i think the stretched cylinder type shape could encourage the torqueing as i dont think its a natural position for your wrist to be in.

Im definately a fan of a bulbous type of handle, im not sure if thats what is refered to a 'locator grip' or not, but it seems to make 'pushing through the palm' feel more natural and it seems to match the shape of the inside of the palm better

Although lately while learning to make bows, it seems that the smaller the grip is, the better it feels for me. I find myself having to force myself off the file before the handles gone!

Scuzz

Thinking about what you just said Scuzz, I also think that HH style grip places your hand further behind the centrall pivot point of the bow, amplifying any error. That's my guess.

Fraser