To cant, or not to cant

[Brumbies Country]

Morning Grahame

Yes I figured it came down to distance from the bowhand and while the finer points of physics continue to elude me I can appreciate that the distance of the arrow rest from the bow hand is going to magnify variations from the vertical. In IFAA barebow recurve you are permitted to fit a very small level to your bow. You cannot do that under FITA rules. I was wondering about string alignment which I use to use as a sort of rear side re limiting horizontal spread of arrows, but re keeping the bow vertical I reckon the string alignment is going to uniformly tilt as the bow tilts from vertical.

Simon

[Stickbow Hunter]

In IFAA barebow recurve you are permitted to fit a very small level to your bow.

And they call that barebow!

Jeff

[Brumbies Country]

Fair enough comment Jeff:lol: . Under those IFAA rules you are allowed to have a clicker too, but it must be mounted below the arrow. At the IFAA Bowhunter Chamionships last Easter at Wagga I didn't include either the clicker nor the level. Come to think of it you were allowed a stabiliser too which I also didn't have.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Fair enough comment Jeff:lol: . Under those IFAA rules you are allowed to have a clicker too, but it must be mounted below the arrow. At the IFAA Bowhunter Chamionships last Easter at Wagga I didn't include either the clicker nor the level. Come to think of it you were allowed a stabiliser too which I also didn't have.

They certainly have a strange idea of what a bare bow is mate.

Jeff

[wishsong]

I think its a matter of need .
If you want "hunting groupings " at hunting ranges [ 20 and under ] I don't think it matters that much but for more extended accuracy at longer ranges it would seem that the less cant the better .
John Schulz , protege of Howard Hill tells of both he and Hill's bows became more vertical the longer the shot, ditto Byron Ferguson ... IFAA champs' Steve Morely and Larr Yien shoot there bows with little cant [ but they can if the shot calls for it ] and noted coach and IBO champ Rod Jenkins bow is plumb straight up and down . Look at the pics of Saxton Pope ... his bow is pretty straight up , shooting off his hand .
Just as there are many great shots who shoot with there bow well canted , I'd suggest that as a general rule the really top shooters most likley have there bows straighter up and down than the less accomplished shooters ....
Maybe thats why I cant my bow so much ......

I have never bought in to the whole target vs hunting arguement . A good shot is a good shot is a good shot ...... and as such will likely be able to make a good shot under many conditions, terrains , time constraints etc

[littlejohn59]

Canting a bow depends on the distance of how far you want to shoot for accuracy. Close up it doesn't really matter(30 m). If you want accuracy 40 metres onwards, i find holding the bow perpindicular to the ground results in better accuracy. ian

[Brumbies Country]

I reckon that's a pretty good summary wishsong. Interesting your mention of Steve Morely. He doesan't get a lot of mention in Oz but is a darned good shot. US born but living in Estonia if memory serves me correctly.

[wishsong]

Brumbies ...
Steve M is one heck of an archer eh ! He seems to do well regardlss of where what and how . But more than anything he is always more than willing to help out another archer , share his ideas and even ask questions .....

[alaninoz]

In IFAA barebow recurve you are permitted to fit a very small level to your bow.

And they call that barebow!

Jeff

Terminological problem. What is termed generally thought of as barebow, and is termed barebow in ABA, is termed Bowhunter Recurve or Bowhunter Compound in IFAA. In IFAA barebow you can also use a long stabiliser.

Don't understand it myself, but they are the terms they use.

[longbowinfected]

Simon, Steve Morley is a Brit. Had problems with GNAS not sending modern longbowers to FITA 3D Worlds as GNAS uses ELBs.
Steve had met a lovely Estonian lady, settled down there and set up an archery park there He became their national champion and coach. I spent a fair bit of time talking with Steve and he is a really great guy. He was competing basically with all his fingers totally curled over like a claw. Physios were working on him every moment. He still gets on well with the British archers. We both spent a fair bit of time with the English longbower Burke, who was the captain of my group.

Steve did cant into the hill a wee bit on the horrendous angles when shooting across the slopes. The distances there had a 30 metre maximum but lots of 40 degree slopes.

We talked a lot about canting as a group. Discussion ran pretty much the same as here. Burke shot bolt upright with his ELB. He and I were the only ones who regularly shot longer distances in target. The french. Italians and Spaniards shot with over exaggerated canting. The northernmost Europeans and Russians were more upright. The French, Italians and Spaniards all grunted and yelled louder than the professional ladies tennis players. Two these ladies, one on each side was breathing hard and hot in my earhole and grunting right next to me at the practice range.......takes a bit of getting used to.

Kevin

[Stickbow Hunter]

Thanks for that info Alan. I don't have anything to do with those associations so I had no idea what their rules were.

Jeff

[Brumbies Country]

Brumbies ...
Steve M is one heck of an archer eh ! He seems to do well regardlss of where what and how . But more than anything he is always more than willing to help out another archer , share his ideas and even ask questions .....

I've read some of his replies on Tradgang and they are very well thought out. He also features very well in results.

[Brumbies Country]

In IFAA barebow recurve you are permitted to fit a very small level to your bow.

And they call that barebow!

Jeff

Terminological problem. What is termed generally thought of as barebow, and is termed barebow in ABA, is termed Bowhunter Recurve or Bowhunter Compound in IFAA. In IFAA barebow you can also use a long stabiliser.

Don't understand it myself, but they are the terms they use.

Thanks Alan

Much better spelling out of the IFAA situation than mine. I thinlk you are alowed a short stabilizer in the bowhunter recurve too. See you next weekend. Will send a separate email.

Simon

[Brumbies Country]

Simon, Steve Morley is a Brit. Had problems with GNAS not sending modern longbowers to FITA 3D Worlds as GNAS uses ELBs.
Steve had met a lovely Estonian lady, settled down there and set up an archery park there He became their national champion and coach. I spent a fair bit of time talking with Steve and he is a really great guy. He was competing basically with all his fingers totally curled over like a claw. Physios were working on him every moment. He still gets on well with the British archers. We both spent a fair bit of time with the English longbower Burke, who was the captain of my group.

Steve did cant into the hill a wee bit on the horrendous angles when shooting across the slopes. The distances there had a 30 metre maximum but lots of 40 degree slopes.

We talked a lot about canting as a group. Discussion ran pretty much the same as here. Burke shot bolt upright with his ELB. He and I were the only ones who regularly shot longer distances in target. The french. Italians and Spaniards shot with over exaggerated canting. The northernmost Europeans and Russians were more upright. The French, Italians and Spaniards all grunted and yelled louder than the professional ladies tennis players. Two these ladies, one on each side was breathing hard and hot in my earhole and grunting right next to me at the practice range.......takes a bit of getting used to.

Kevin

Hi Kevin

That's really interesting feedback from a number of perspectives. Firstly, I didn't know the Brits limited their longbow in FITA 3Di to ELBs. Part of that really strikes a chord with me but it must put them at some disadvantage. Apologies for getting Streve Morley's initial nationality mixed up; I think I knew he was of British ancestry but because he posts on Tradgang somehow got the US association. I didn't know he has that finger problem. Always had it or just recent? Shoots extremely well with that sort of problem.

Back on topic, interesting the international variation in canting. The 30m max may be of significance there but still interesting. That grunting gets me in the tennis. Would have thought it completely unnecessary in archery.

Really appreciate your feedback on the international differences.

Simon

[Chase N. Nocks]

G'day all.

Ok this question could have gone in either recent post so I just picked this one as the biggest.

How about canting the bow shooting three fingers under. Yes. No. maybe.

Also I am sure I have seen bows that have a riser built in such a way that the hand is canted but the bow is upright.

Anyone familiar? Why isn't that concept more popular? What is this called and who makes such bows?

OK, more than one question.

Cheers
Troy

[Eagle]

I shoot 3 under and I find the bow cants ever so slightly. It's a natural position for the bow as I reach anchor with the 1st finger touching the corner of my mouth. I don't purposely can't it I just let the bow "do the work". When I try to keep the bow perfectly upright I tend to lose focus on other stuff so I just do what works for me. After all I found that's with everything in archery, "each to their own"

[Kendaric]

Canting the bow is more so for longbows were the arrow sits 1/8" outside centre shot and instinctive shooters. Another reason for canting the bow for some is to get there eye directly over the arrow. Recurve and modern longbows shooters with large cut out windows and centreshot risers dont have so much of this issue, so holding the bow vertical is preferable for string/arrow/sights/gap/point of aim alignment shooting.