Draw length question
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- Chase N. Nocks
- Posts: 1463
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Draw length question
I can't believe that it has taken me 30 odd years to ask this question. Or at least as long as I have been a member of this forum.
I shoot a 28 inch draw length with trad bows quite comfortably I believe.
OK so the question is...
When I do the standard "place arrow in the middle of chest and reach forward on a shaft as far as possible" I usually get a maximum of about 26 inches as the supposed draw length.
I don't feel like I am over drawing. I am about 5'8 and reasonably broard shouldered..would that account for it?
Anyone else find this or similar issue?
Cheers
Troy
I shoot a 28 inch draw length with trad bows quite comfortably I believe.
OK so the question is...
When I do the standard "place arrow in the middle of chest and reach forward on a shaft as far as possible" I usually get a maximum of about 26 inches as the supposed draw length.
I don't feel like I am over drawing. I am about 5'8 and reasonably broard shouldered..would that account for it?
Anyone else find this or similar issue?
Cheers
Troy
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
Re: Draw length question
Hi Troy
I suggest you take your bow to a archery shop that has a draw length arrow and see what draw length you actually pulling
and draw weight.I am 5'9 and broad shouldered like yourself and only draw 26 inches and I set up my arrows to my draw length and weight pulled not what is written on the bow.Just draw to what feels comfortable, don't try to over extend when drawing it will only cause problems.
cheers
Matt
I suggest you take your bow to a archery shop that has a draw length arrow and see what draw length you actually pulling
and draw weight.I am 5'9 and broad shouldered like yourself and only draw 26 inches and I set up my arrows to my draw length and weight pulled not what is written on the bow.Just draw to what feels comfortable, don't try to over extend when drawing it will only cause problems.
cheers
Matt
Re: Draw length question
Broad shouldered and Fat A@#$&^ - sorry mate, I resemble that too
Troy there is so many vaiables in drawlengths you just about need a thesis to cover them but I would not place any credence in the method your described, at best it's an approximation. There's the half your armspan or whatever method also
An arrow thats marked in inch increments is fine but needs 2 people to be reliable. I don't like your chances of She who must be obeyed helping you with anything Archery related just now. Funny cattle women , my missus is the same especially as she is getting an inkling of how much my latest Toy has cost. I suggest you find your self an extra long arrow in the many ,varied and mottley collection in your Back Quiver and also a rubber O ring thats fits nicely over the shaft, draw it and if the rubber o ring is loose enough it will slide and stop against the back of your riser. Repeat 4 or 5 times and do an average , this is your draw length, add an inch or 2 and you have your arrow cut off length
You also measure your drawlength from the base of the nock groove. How many different nocks in that Quiver mate
Keep in mind different bows will give you different measurements due to grip and riser design which someone with form like you does not need
regards your bestest mate
Troy there is so many vaiables in drawlengths you just about need a thesis to cover them but I would not place any credence in the method your described, at best it's an approximation. There's the half your armspan or whatever method also
An arrow thats marked in inch increments is fine but needs 2 people to be reliable. I don't like your chances of She who must be obeyed helping you with anything Archery related just now. Funny cattle women , my missus is the same especially as she is getting an inkling of how much my latest Toy has cost. I suggest you find your self an extra long arrow in the many ,varied and mottley collection in your Back Quiver and also a rubber O ring thats fits nicely over the shaft, draw it and if the rubber o ring is loose enough it will slide and stop against the back of your riser. Repeat 4 or 5 times and do an average , this is your draw length, add an inch or 2 and you have your arrow cut off length
You also measure your drawlength from the base of the nock groove. How many different nocks in that Quiver mate
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Keep in mind different bows will give you different measurements due to grip and riser design which someone with form like you does not need
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regards your bestest mate
"To my deep morticication my father once said to me, 'You care for nothing but shooting, dogs and rat catching, and you will be a disgrace to yourself and all your family.' "
- Charles Darwin
- Charles Darwin
Re: Draw length question
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Re: Draw length question
Troy,
I can't see that you have any problem with your draw length. The old method of bringing the fingertips together was at best only a guide and, as you point out with broad shouldered blokes like yourself, it wasn't very reliable. The method completely went out the window with the advent of compound bows with their much longer possible draw lengths.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. You seem to have worked out a drawlength which relates to the distance between the back of the head to your anchor. I have seen the other methods about using a marked rod in some of my older books. It will most probably only back up what you have already found out for yourself anyway.
I can't see that you have any problem with your draw length. The old method of bringing the fingertips together was at best only a guide and, as you point out with broad shouldered blokes like yourself, it wasn't very reliable. The method completely went out the window with the advent of compound bows with their much longer possible draw lengths.
I wouldn't worry too much about it. You seem to have worked out a drawlength which relates to the distance between the back of the head to your anchor. I have seen the other methods about using a marked rod in some of my older books. It will most probably only back up what you have already found out for yourself anyway.
Dennis La Varénne
Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.
QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8
What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?
HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.
Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.
QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8
What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?
HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.
Re: Draw length question
Couple of discrete texta lines on a arrow that you currently shoot can also get the answer, but you need a friend to help. I'm suggesting draw the lines on first, at say 27,28,29 inches, rather than trying to mark the arrow at full draw.matt61 wrote:Hi Troy
I suggest you take your bow to a archery shop that has a draw length arrow and see what draw length you actually pulling
and draw weight.I am 5'9 and broad shouldered like yourself and only draw 26 inches and I set up my arrows to my draw length and weight pulled not what is written on the bow.Just draw to what feels comfortable, don't try to over extend when drawing it will only cause problems.
cheers
Matt
David
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Sky TDX 17 riser with Kaya Carbon Tomcat limbs(25H-36#) short Beiter button and rest.
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Sky TDX 17 riser with Kaya Carbon Tomcat limbs(25H-36#) short Beiter button and rest.
- Chase N. Nocks
- Posts: 1463
- Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:33 am
- Location: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Draw length question
Thanks for the replies everyone. More than anything I was wondering if this technique for determining draw length was consistantly inaccurate (assuming it is) for others as well.
Matt, I could probably drop my drawlength about 1/4 to 1/2 of an inch but the way I am understanding back tension and how it is applied I am currently pretty much in that window to make it work..at least at the upper end of that window.
I used to try and draw 29" out of a tradbow but was stretching it and in the early days had not found my comfortable stance..that was when I first came across from shooting compound with very much an upright target archers stance (my initial introduction to archery was target archery) with the compound I draw about 29 1/2" to 30"draw. My stance is very different but still anchor in the same place. When I was snap shooting I had a floating draw length that was anywhere from probably 18 to 28 inches. Rabbit target 18 inch draw...med goat 23-24 inch draw and long pig/buffalo 28 inch draw and then everything inbetween.
Whether or not I actually came back to the side of my face depended on just how much I was leaning into the bow but certainly by leaning I had at least a 2 inch variation in draw even on those occasions I was coming back to the corner of the mouth. It was not what I would call good form but it worked very well for a while until a slump hit and then because of the number of variables I had unconsciously worked into my style it was extremely hard to pin point where the problem was. In the head more than anything though is my opinion.
Also when I use the arms outstretched technique for working out drawlength it tells me 28.2" should be my draw length so I wonder what your reading is..
Perry, you did well not to mention manboobs.
More practice will be key but I will be dragging out the video camera and just taking a good look at my style...I would love to have some blank bale time. You usually provide good feed back on my form...you are usually far more observient than I when watching another archer shoot. I think you may have noticed if I was stretching in too obvious a way. We shall see.
Bill When using the drawing method I am measuring my draw length from the nock of the arrow to where the cardboard stops against the back of the bow (the front of the riser) and not from the deepest part of the grip. If that is the criteria then certainly my draw is less than the 28" I have mentioned.
Dennis yes I agree. That is how I see it. It is funny how often this method is still found as a recommendation but not from the better publications or forums I should add. It may coincidentially work for some body types but as you say this method in particular and the other methods in general are a rough guide. Yes with the compound it would in my case be as much as 4" inches out.
Drawing the arrow is a good one but the new archer should be using a very very light bow so they can smoothly pull into a comfortable stance with a little good form guidance from an experienced archer. This will lead into them finding their own consistant comfort zone..which many of us have done largely from getting out there and flinging lots of arrows. Well that's the most enjoyable way to do it.
dmm Good suggestion. I am even thinking of actually cutting some old arrows to those lengths and shooting them to see how they feel. That will be interesting anyway.
Of course as Dennis picked up on, my comfort zone has developed over long years of shooting and I have let the ego that says I need a long draw length. The best status is gained by shooting well amongst our peers not how long our arrows are. Even something like "what is your draw length" is a developmental rather than fixed measurement. We can't really know it until we know what we are doing.
Cheers
Troy
Sorry for the delay in response but I have been poking fun at Perry, which he is largely immune to now (from me anyway)
Matt, I could probably drop my drawlength about 1/4 to 1/2 of an inch but the way I am understanding back tension and how it is applied I am currently pretty much in that window to make it work..at least at the upper end of that window.
I used to try and draw 29" out of a tradbow but was stretching it and in the early days had not found my comfortable stance..that was when I first came across from shooting compound with very much an upright target archers stance (my initial introduction to archery was target archery) with the compound I draw about 29 1/2" to 30"draw. My stance is very different but still anchor in the same place. When I was snap shooting I had a floating draw length that was anywhere from probably 18 to 28 inches. Rabbit target 18 inch draw...med goat 23-24 inch draw and long pig/buffalo 28 inch draw and then everything inbetween.
Whether or not I actually came back to the side of my face depended on just how much I was leaning into the bow but certainly by leaning I had at least a 2 inch variation in draw even on those occasions I was coming back to the corner of the mouth. It was not what I would call good form but it worked very well for a while until a slump hit and then because of the number of variables I had unconsciously worked into my style it was extremely hard to pin point where the problem was. In the head more than anything though is my opinion.
Also when I use the arms outstretched technique for working out drawlength it tells me 28.2" should be my draw length so I wonder what your reading is..
Perry, you did well not to mention manboobs.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon/wink.gif)
Ahhh so true but need is a funny word is it not.Keep in mind different bows will give you different measurements due to grip and riser design which someone with form like you does not need
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon/wink.gif)
Bill When using the drawing method I am measuring my draw length from the nock of the arrow to where the cardboard stops against the back of the bow (the front of the riser) and not from the deepest part of the grip. If that is the criteria then certainly my draw is less than the 28" I have mentioned.
Dennis yes I agree. That is how I see it. It is funny how often this method is still found as a recommendation but not from the better publications or forums I should add. It may coincidentially work for some body types but as you say this method in particular and the other methods in general are a rough guide. Yes with the compound it would in my case be as much as 4" inches out.
Drawing the arrow is a good one but the new archer should be using a very very light bow so they can smoothly pull into a comfortable stance with a little good form guidance from an experienced archer. This will lead into them finding their own consistant comfort zone..which many of us have done largely from getting out there and flinging lots of arrows. Well that's the most enjoyable way to do it.
dmm Good suggestion. I am even thinking of actually cutting some old arrows to those lengths and shooting them to see how they feel. That will be interesting anyway.
Of course as Dennis picked up on, my comfort zone has developed over long years of shooting and I have let the ego that says I need a long draw length. The best status is gained by shooting well amongst our peers not how long our arrows are. Even something like "what is your draw length" is a developmental rather than fixed measurement. We can't really know it until we know what we are doing.
Cheers
Troy
Sorry for the delay in response but I have been poking fun at Perry, which he is largely immune to now (from me anyway)
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
"Shooting the Stickbow"
....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"
Re: Draw length question
Draw length can be a tricky thing in so much that there is AMO draw length (to the back of the bow ie the face of the bow that is furthest away from you), and True Draw length, which is that to the 'pivot point' of the bow ie that which is directly perpendicular above your palm. AMO length can vary from bow to bow because of different bow riser depths and hand grip depths, which can vary. AMO is what Manufacturers use. True Draw is a bit more of a constant length, because it is related to were your palm actually sits. AMO Draw length is generally 1 3/4" longer than true draw.
The method with the arrow to the chest (the bone divot just under the throat) with arms forward is a good starting point as a guide. Ideally the shoulders should not be stretched forward while doing this. Like someone else said, it is a guide only, but a good one for AMO draw length, but has a lot of variables due to stretch factor. Your 'actual' AMO draw length should be within +/- 1" of this
A more accurate method, which takes in shoulder width, is the 'wing span method'. With your back and head to the wall, spread your arms out wide at shoulder height to form a 'T'. Place a mark at the very ends of your fingertips and measure this distance. This is your wingspan. Now divide this figure by 2.7 to give you your true draw length +/- 1/2".
It is rare for a recurver or longbower to over draw their bow, however about 75% of compounders are over-drawing their bows by up to 2" - particularly bowhunters. This is part due to short axle to axle bows and the cam-ing effect makes it attractive to draw right back to the stop. Ego may also have a lot to do with it.
The method with the arrow to the chest (the bone divot just under the throat) with arms forward is a good starting point as a guide. Ideally the shoulders should not be stretched forward while doing this. Like someone else said, it is a guide only, but a good one for AMO draw length, but has a lot of variables due to stretch factor. Your 'actual' AMO draw length should be within +/- 1" of this
A more accurate method, which takes in shoulder width, is the 'wing span method'. With your back and head to the wall, spread your arms out wide at shoulder height to form a 'T'. Place a mark at the very ends of your fingertips and measure this distance. This is your wingspan. Now divide this figure by 2.7 to give you your true draw length +/- 1/2".
It is rare for a recurver or longbower to over draw their bow, however about 75% of compounders are over-drawing their bows by up to 2" - particularly bowhunters. This is part due to short axle to axle bows and the cam-ing effect makes it attractive to draw right back to the stop. Ego may also have a lot to do with it.
Last edited by Kendaric on Fri Aug 29, 2014 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Draw length question
Chase N. Nocks wrote:I can't believe that it has taken me 30 odd years to ask this question. Or at least as long as I have been a member of this forum.
I shoot a 28 inch draw length with trad bows quite comfortably I believe.
OK so the question is...
When I do the standard "place arrow in the middle of chest and reach forward on a shaft as far as possible" I usually get a maximum of about 26 inches as the supposed draw length.
I don't feel like I am over drawing. I am about 5'8 and reasonably broard shouldered..would that account for it?
Anyone else find this or similar issue?
Cheers
im the same as you mate...5'8..26 inch draw....still trying to work out an arrow for my bow
Troy
Re: Draw length question
I recently measured my draw length on my own. Both very similar to the 'o' ring method. One I used a pipe cleaner from the Mrs craft draws, the other was one of the kids hair ties.
The only thing left was to calculate the difference between the back of the bow and the handle pivot point for 'AMO' length.
26.5 inches for me.
The only thing left was to calculate the difference between the back of the bow and the handle pivot point for 'AMO' length.
26.5 inches for me.
Re: Draw length question
Morning Troy
The method of outstretched hands will give an arrow that given a conventional anchor will be long enough that the archer will not have the arrow falling of the rest due to being short.
Returning to the real world how consistent is your 'form'? Unless it is consistent there is a reasonable chance that it will vary. It you cut your to 'length' there is a possibility that when you get serious and put in a few months of consistent shooting your draw length will grow slightly and the arrows may end up a tad short.
That will then give you the opportunity to make some new arrows so that you have nice set ........
I can. Some people are not as fast as others.Chase N. Nocks wrote:I can't believe that it has taken me 30 odd years to ask this question. Or at least as long as I have been a member of this forum.
The method of outstretched hands will give an arrow that given a conventional anchor will be long enough that the archer will not have the arrow falling of the rest due to being short.
Returning to the real world how consistent is your 'form'? Unless it is consistent there is a reasonable chance that it will vary. It you cut your to 'length' there is a possibility that when you get serious and put in a few months of consistent shooting your draw length will grow slightly and the arrows may end up a tad short.
That will then give you the opportunity to make some new arrows so that you have nice set ........
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.
"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.
Re: Draw length question
Hi Kendaric - unless I'm mistaken - I think you divide your span by 2.5Kendaric wrote:A more accurate method, which takes in shoulder width, is the 'wing span method'. With your back and head to the wall, spread your arms out wide at shoulder height to form a 'T'. Place a mark at the very ends of your fingertips and measure this distance. This is your wingspan. Now divide this figure by 2.7
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Re: Draw length question
To add to (simplify?) Perrys method of measuring your draw length without a lovely assistant, substitute one of her clothes pegs for the O ring. Almost every household would have some. Worked for me, and I didn't even think of using one of the O rings I've been keeping because it would come in handy one day, for something.....
Re: Draw length question
That is correct for AMO length. I was referring to 'true-draw' length which I find to be a more consistent reference, and separate from the 'back' of the bow (AMO), or overall arrow length.curve wrote:Hi Kendaric - unless I'm mistaken - I think you divide your span by 2.5Kendaric wrote:A more accurate method, which takes in shoulder width, is the 'wing span method'. With your back and head to the wall, spread your arms out wide at shoulder height to form a 'T'. Place a mark at the very ends of your fingertips and measure this distance. This is your wingspan. Now divide this figure by 2.7