Blank bale shooting

[Brumbies Country]

I had a good look at Masters of the Barebow 3 yesterday. The DVD is strong on blank bale training. In response to a suggestion from Dennis last Christmas re a specific problem, I did a quite a bit of blank bale shooting for 6 weeks or so but have done little since. Strikes me after watching the DVD that there are merits in doing it fairly frequently concentrating on form and the components of the shot.

Just wondered if any of you do it fairly regularly and how beneficial you'd assess it to be.

Simon

[bigbob]

Havent tried it myself at all , but seem to recall Yankie Coach Bernie Pellerite in an Archer Action mag stating that it is only worthwhile if the participant does it continually for some 20 something days as it takes that long to push the undesirable element , one is trying to correct aside and allowing proper form to be the dominant memory.If that makes sense to you.I guess that repeated sessions at intervals after the initial effort would certainly help to re inforce good form learned through the process.

[longbow steve]

Hi Simon, all of my home practice is blank bale. I mix my aiming methods up depending on what shoot I am going to ie point of aim for target or gap for field or focused target shooting for the trad shoots.
I do my distances at the club on a weekend if needed. Steve

[Stickbow Hunter]

I have done it on a vary rare occasion but certainly not very often. I think doing such practice could be of benefit though if you are having form problems.

or focused target shooting for the trad shoots.

I have never heard of this aiming method Steve; could you explain what it is please?

Jeff

[longbow steve]

ahemmm instinctive

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks Bob, Steve and Jeff

I'm grateful for the feedback. Seems to me it could be valuable if done on a regular basis. I certainly got benefit from it last Christmas and should have persisted.

Hi Simon, all of my home practice is blank bale. I mix my aiming methods up depending on what shoot I am going to ie point of aim for target or gap for field or focused target shooting for the trad shoots.
I do my distances at the club on a weekend if needed. Steve

Steve this sounds something along the lines of what Larry Yien is advocating. He talks about blank bale for coordinating the 7 components of the shot. He then talks about blind bale where you close your eyes and just go with the feel, then talks about blank bale again, but this time you pick a spot. Sounds to me that when you are talking about mixing the point of aim, gap and focused methods that you are doing that at close range relative to a spot, but that's complemented by confirming these things at distances at the club during the weekend. Have I got that right? It certainly works well for you.

Simon

[bigbob]

Yep Simon. Pellerite says much the same thing Just focus on the seven stages of form with the blank bale to allow the subconscious to imprint the correct procedure without the distraction of eye sight which only introduces another variable you dont need when trying to correct a form flaw like T.P or perhaps bad release etc. He maintains that one needs at least 20 something days to clear the previous bad practices and re learn the proper form.

[Stickbow Hunter]

ahemmm instinctive

Oh, well why not say that then so we know what you meant.

Jeff

[longbow steve]

Steve this sounds something along the lines of what Larry Yien is advocating. He talks about blank bale for coordinating the 7 components of the shot. He then talks about blind bale where you close your eyes and just go with the feel, then talks about blank bale again, but this time you pick a spot. Sounds to me that when you are talking about mixing the point of aim, gap and focused methods that you are doing that at close range relative to a spot, but that's complemented by confirming these things at distances at the club during the weekend. Have I got that right? It certainly works well for you.

Simon

Hi Simon, It is good to mix it up. I find if I do to much field that my form suffers and I need to fling arrows at distance, aswell as the routine at home.
The home shooting is done generally at 5,10,15m and is so comfortable that there is no stress about missing the butt so your attention can be put into shot feel/follow through/sound of the bow, cementing it into your unconscious. Do your thinking and diagnosis of flaws in your shot here so when at the range you can focus on getting into the "zone". I found it beneficial to keep a log book early on noting revelations, things you have tried that session etc. Steve

[Brumbies Country]

Yep Simon. Pellerite says much the same thing Just focus on the seven stages of form with the blank bale to allow the subconscious to imprint the correct procedure without the distraction of eye sight which only introduces another variable you dont need when trying to correct a form flaw like T.P or perhaps bad release etc. He maintains that one needs at least 20 something days to clear the previous bad practices and re learn the proper form.

Thanks Bob

Good to hear that Bernie thinks the same. It wasTP that had me shooting blank bale almost 12 months ago and with the benefit of hindsight I should have kept at it. TP is mostly not a problem now, but I reckon my shooting would benefit with alot more blank/blindbale.

Simon

[Brumbies Country]

[quoteHi Simon, It is good to mix it up. I find if I do to much field that my form suffers and I need to fling arrows at distance, aswell as the routine at home.
The home shooting is done generally at 5,10,15m and is so comfortable that there is no stress about missing the butt so your attention can be put into shot feel/follow through/sound of the bow, cementing it into your unconscious. Do your thinking and diagnosis of flaws in your shot here so when at the range you can focus on getting into the "zone". I found it beneficial to keep a log book early on noting revelations, things you have tried that session etc. Steve[/quote]

Thanks Steve

I'm impressed with your whole regime, and the log book aproach speaks volumes. It's a bit of a lesson for the rest of us. I love to bang away at a couple of 3D targets I have at home plus the remains of another, but it is just that, banging away. It is a lot of fun and especially with longer shots it's really great to see arrows fly, but there is a bit of discipline that needs to be included for the score to improve. I think with the benefit of hindsight that there would be alot of satisfaction in including a strong element of that disciplined blank bale approach. Thanks for detailing that.

Simon

[bigbob]

hi simon. Just to add a little more about what Pellerite has said, it was 12 steps with form, and he says that one needs the 21 days to remove the undesirable flaw and imprint the desired. However he also said that one doesnt need to keep the eyes closed at all times. Some time with eyes open but absolutely no zeroing in on any particular spot on the bale, in other words no conscious aiming at any thing on the bale. Then he advocated a gradual move back a few metres, and same again, followed by anothet move. etc. he said that any move back to 20 or so metres straight after the blank bale could shock the sensory system and result in the ol' T.P. flooding back in.He also said that most people dont have the discipline to continue with the bale and revert to aiming at something during the process. Hope this is of some use. This is not anything I have deduced of course, merely something i have read in an article

[Chase N. Nocks]

Guys how long does a bale last? I have thought about it many times but they are not cheap and I would have thought that they would have been shot out pretty easily. Unfortunately not a single-childless-mortagless money bags anymore (not complaining, wouldn't swap places with anyone ).

[Brumbies Country]

hi simon. Just to add a little more about what Pellerite has said, it was 12 steps with form, and he says that one needs the 21 days to remove the undesirable flaw and imprint the desired. However he also said that one doesnt need to keep the eyes closed at all times. Some time with eyes open but absolutely no zeroing in on any particular spot on the bale, in other words no conscious aiming at any thing on the bale. Then he advocated a gradual move back a few metres, and same again, followed by anothet move. etc. he said that any move back to 20 or so metres straight after the blank bale could shock the sensory system and result in the ol' T.P. flooding back in.He also said that most people dont have the discipline to continue with the bale and revert to aiming at something during the process. Hope this is of some use. This is not anything I have deduced of course, merely something i have read in an article

Thanks Bob

I think I can recall seeing that article in an ABA Archery Action. II can't recall what month and year that was. Any ideas?Bernie Pellerite certainly has had a series in that magazine.

Simon

[Brumbies Country]

Guys how long does a bale last? I have thought about it many times but they are not cheap and I would have thought that they would have been shot out pretty easily. Unfortunately not a single-childless-mortagless money bags anymore (not complaining, wouldn't swap places with anyone ).

The wool bale is the expensive bit. You can get them for around $20 new, but there are alot of sheep round here and you can scrounge moderately used ones for nothing. Not so many sheep round Brisbane however . I've filled mine with a mixture of cardboard and old clothes and turning them around etc I've got mine to last a good year. Having said that I haven't shot as much blank bale as I intend do do in the future.

Simon

[bigbob]

Simon, its an old issue. Sept/ Oct 2003.If you cant dredge it up I may be able to scan the pages and send them to this site and Jeff with his infinite wisdom and technical ability may be able to post them for all. May be a copywrite issue perhaps though.? Let me know please.

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks Bob

Mine go back to 2004 when I became an ABA member. I thought if I had it I'd chase it up, but you have summarised the main points very well here and as you say, there may be copyright issues scanning it and having it on the site.

Simon

[Stephen Georgiou]

Practice is the key.

Blank bale shooting works well for fixing form issues and target panic.
Follow a simple shoot routine.
1. knock an arrow
2. raise your bow arm to target
3. draw to anchor (steps 2 and 3 can be done together, your choice)
4. follow through

Releasing should not be part of your routine. By doing this you will remove the possibility of target panic.

Blank butt shooting is good for this routine.

Pellerite makes good money from making things complicated to a point that means you need him to be a good archer.
He has a series of tapes called "idiot proof archery." Hate the implication that not using his systems makes you an idiot. Bad choice of words I think. IMHO

Look at the way our young ones shoot a bow. If you leave them alone, after some basic rules, they shoot well naturally.
Keeping it simple works best.

Cheers

Cheers
Stephen

[UPTHETOP]

There is a big difference between eye- 1/ Practice shooting arrows
and eye -2/ Train to shoot arrows?

You need to do both to become the best you can be.

Cheers Wayno

[bigbob]

Stephen, that seems to be my take on Pellerite too.I remember he once wrote that any one who held the riser with a loose grip with fingers out stretched in front had had a prior issue with strangling the bow and had an experience with partly losing the grip. He said 100% this was the case. As some one who shot that way for many years [relaxed grip] and had NEVER had a problem I thought his statement was a little presumptious and arrogant.He is of course in business to sell his philosophies and strategies and complicating things naturally would require one to seek his advise, paid of course.

[Chase N. Nocks]

Guys how long does a bale last? I have thought about it many times but they are not cheap and I would have thought that they would have been shot out pretty easily. Unfortunately not a single-childless-mortagless money bags anymore (not complaining, wouldn't swap places with anyone ).

The wool bale is the expensive bit. You can get them for around $20 new, but there are alot of sheep round here and you can scrounge moderately used ones for nothing. Not so many sheep round Brisbane however . I've filled mine with a mixture of cardboard and old clothes and turning them around etc I've got mine to last a good year. Having said that I haven't shot as much blank bale as I intend do do in the future.

Simon

Thanks mate, I thought you guys were talking about hay bales. I do have a wool bag stuffed with rags (wet rags ...now weighs about 250KG)
but it is at ground level and I wondered at the usefulness of shooting down as it would not be the most natural stance..although I could still practice my release and follow through I suppose.

I thought hay bales were about $140 and would shoot out fairly rapidly.

[Stephen Georgiou]

That's about it Bob.
Everyone who wants to put the time in will get good at it. I like the idea of passing on info and letting people make up their own minds about what is right for them. To say that your way is the only "right way" is a bit much for me.

I must say...I love the whole bow and arrow thing.
Feels good,
Feels right.

The more we can promote the use of these tools the better.
We live in a world full of complications and the simple act of loosing and arrow makes it much easier to bear.

Cheers

[GrahameA]

Morning All.

... I like the idea of passing on info and letting people make up their own minds about what is right for them. To say that your way is the only "right way" is a bit much for me.

Yes! Some ways may be better - and I would want to see the evidence or the argued opinion - that does not mean they are the "be all and end all" or the only correct way. Archery can be very fashionable - what is "In" one year is "Out" the next.