Lessons learnt from speed shooting

[Brumbies Country]

The speed shooting competitions art Wiseman's Ferry were something of a revelation. I'd only entered speed shooting classes once before. Not being used to it the biggest problem for me was nocking the arrow with precision and reasonably quickly. Luckily Longbow Infected had put me right re the advisability of using bare fingers but I was to some degree still all thumbs!

Where the revelation came in is that I actually mostly hit the 3D animal despite no time for concious aiming. Due to some very variable shooting results over the last three years I reckon recently I have become a bit to deliberate with too much time for readjusting the gap etc. Admittedly these were relatively short distances in these speed events, but there was no time for the brain to get in the way of the shot. It really is a bit of a testimonial to instinctive shooting, or whatever you like to call that almost subconcious action in putting together the shot that way.

I watched with some awe the number of people who could pretty frequently hit the A zone in those speed classes. I guess that comes with quickly focusing on a spot and retaining good form.

[Stickbow Hunter]

Yeah Simon speed rounds were one of my favourites as it suited my style of shooting very well. My son was very good at them also and we used to average nine shots away in 30 seconds and each from a different peg. Alan Camp from down your way was/is an excellent shot and he was also extremely good at the speed rounds. I find using a back quiver helps when shooting these rounds. It is amazing when you shoot so fast just how accurately it can be done - no time to second guess yourself.

Jeff

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks Jeff

Yeah, from dreading the things I can nowsee that practicing for it could be pretty useful. Can't let form entirely go out the window however .

Simon

[jurdy]

i think with practicing for the speed rounds like you both said nocking fast would nearly be the most important thing. the way i practice was at first all my arras in the ground then get them off as fast as i can from there.. then practicing form the quiver.. thats where the indexers on the nock are a godsend ..
at first don't worry to much about accuracy.. that comes with time.. especially if you can just let brain do its own thing... i was all over the place at first, but at wisemans all my practised paid off with a nice score and i think 11 arrows out of the quiver..

i dont know bout the rest of you guys, thats just how i did it
hope it helps

jurdy

[Steven J]

9 Arrows for Jeff, and 11 for Jurdy - You guys would give Legolas from LOTR a run for his money.

The best I can do is 7, but mostly I get 6 away. I thought that was actually OK.

Glad to hear you are having fun Simon. This event is one of my favourites too.

Steve

[Brumbies Country]

Yes I agree with you Steven, the 11 from Jurdy and the 9 from Jeff are impressive to say the least. I think 5, but maybe a 6 was the best I did over the weekend and that was better than I expected to do. Jurdy, I take your point re the indexed knocks. I actually ditched them for some that were a better nock fit, but I've still got a few and will put them on arrows reserved for speed type stuff. When your archery is restricted to field shooting where you have got plenty of time, you move outside your comfort zone with these speed events and things like popinjay, running pigs, rolling discs etc but they are alot of fun and ultimately pretty good for your allround shooting.

[greybeard]

Try several shots with the cock feather facing the shelf.

You may be surprised to find that there is little or no difference as to when the cock feather is facing away from the bow.

I have been shooting cock feather in [on target rounds] for about twelve months now, arrow flight is good and there is no noticeable wear on the feather.

If you find it works for you it does not matter which way the arrow is nocked for the speed round.

Daryl.

[Steven J]

Darryl, I don't tend to worry about the cock feather when shooting speed rounds either. I have found that it matters little if you miss the target by 2 inches or 2 feet, the result is still the same

Jokes aside, I have not found that it makes a difference either.

Steve

[longbowinfected]

if your arrows are tuned to your bow properly and your nocking height is correct the feathers have swung away from the bow. Doesn't matter how you nock the arrow If you use four small feathers it is even easier and quicker. Try using a different string especially or speed shoots and safari shoots with it being triple served [bare fingers] with one nock point under the arrow...quicker again. I am making some self nocked woods and I think that will be interesting. After 4 or 5 serious goes it gets easier then you start to practice and it gets easier and with achievement more fun.

Kev

[alaninoz]

Ditto the point about cock feather in or out not mattering. Dennis La Varenne says this in another thread:

http://www.ozbow.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10335

and I've also heard it from Arthur Fisk, though Arthur expressed a preference for in rather than out.

From my own, limited, experience it doesn't matter.

[Dennis La Varenne]

To all,

Yes, I found out many years ago that the cock feather in doesn't matter a whit. My discovery resulted from the very many times the point of the lower bow feather drove into my bow hand index finger. The faint scars are still there. One day I decided to measure from the injury to the arrow plate. It was a neat 5/8" out from it, about the same as the height of an average 5" feather. I therefore concluded that shooting cock feather in would not have any effect on arrow flight, and it didn't.

I proved this again to myself by quivering 12 arrows and speed shooting them at a close range target without looking at the arrow at all as I nocked it. There was absolutely no difference in the group sizes. I repeated this test something like 6 or 8 times in a row to make sure. It worked.

For speed and all other shooting, I took to heart and practised slowly at first, the Howard Hill method of drawing from the backquiver by the arrow nock only between thumb and forefinger whilst keeping my stare fixed on the spot and feeling for the bowstring on the hand-finds-hand principle. Our remarkable powers of proprioception where we know instinctively where every other part of our body is in relations to other parts is particularly relevant here.

It did not take very long at all for my drawing hand with nock between forefinger and thumb to go from the quiver straight to the bowstring to a position below the string nock, clip the nock onto the string and slide it up against the nock. Howard did it the other way. He nocked above his string nock because he could find it easily that way. I found that that method allowed the arrow to slide up the string unless it was a tight fit. I prefer my nocks to be a bit loose on the string and having the butt up against the nock was more convenient especially if I didn't take the shot. I could then simply loop my bowhand index finger over the arrow and continue stalking or whatever.

And Simon, did you notice that your concentration on the 'one spot' seemed to intensify dramatically without consciously trying?

I am thinking of starting a thread on instinctive shooting, but asking only instinctive shooters to describe what actually happens to the best of their ability to relate it. When this issue arises on this and other forums, the anti-instinctivers usually jump on and decry the method and try to tell us how we do it even though they don't/can't do it themselves. They usually simply won't listen to those of us who KNOW it works because we aren't very good at explaining it ourselves.

Here, I am not talking about how we align the arrow with the target. I am talking about what happens in our heads and in our field of vision, because when we decide to take the shot, everything that we do mechanically with our bodies becomes becomes pretty much unconscious - we have no conscious thoughts going on in our heads during the whole sequence from deciding to shoot till the arrow is away - at least I don't. During the sequence of the shot, there is absolutely NOTHING going on in my mind. How about the rest of you?

What do you all think of the idea?

[GrahameA]

Hi Simon.

MY $0:02 worth. I shoot IKAC on a regularish basis and in it roughly 50% of the arrows shot will be in a "speed round" the end result of which is that you get a bit of practice.

For me, I have spent a bit of time on my self nocks and have made made the mouth of the nock wide so that it is easier to fit them to the string plus I have made the nock either a clip-on or they are a snug fit on the string - they do not fall off. Not the best choice if I was concerned about making the ultimate arrow but a darn site easier to use than what I used in the early days.

[Brumbies Country]

Thank you gentlemen for all the great input. Kevin gave me some good tips before the event and they helped me alot though I've obviously got a fair way to go.

Dennis, I think this speed shooting experience has given my a better perception of the value of instinctive shooting and I think that thread would be a great one to pursue. Until this event I hadn't quite realised how my brain, which otherwise serves me reasonably well in day to day life, has had a capacity to seriously stuff up my archery. Seriously stuffing up one's archery is indeed a grave situation.

Grahame, I need to have a go at self nocks some time in the near future. You and Kevin collectively have considerable powers of logical persuasion .

Simon

[longbowinfected]

Grahame explains and persuades; whereas I infect. The bug is yours. I do note a little twitch of extra enthusiasm. How do you like the Jimbow? Love mine.

Kev

[Brumbies Country]

Kev,the Jimbow is great. I took off the string and put a Dacron one on. The string it came with was too thin for my nocks. For the 35lbs Jimbow my aiming indicator for a 3D bear I have at 45 M using a 350 grain arrow was the knuckle of my index finger left hand. For my other selfbows around 40-45lbs the indicator is the second nuckle. This was using a relative hawser of a string. I've got a 10 strand Dacron which will fit it and improve that performance further. To meet the specifications of the Historic bow class for ABA/IFAA I'm going to take those tiny shelves off and shoot it off the hand. I then need to be able to demonstrate that this bamboo bow has a pre-1900 historical precedent. It's close to some historic bows in South India but would need more pronounced recurve which it doesn't have. It is close to bows from Bhutan.

Grahame, if you see this you may know of some origins.

Simon

[jurdy]

Dennis
[ we have no conscious thoughts going on in our heads during the whole sequence from deciding to shoot till the arrow is away - at least I don't. During the sequence of the shot, there is absolutely NOTHING going on in my mind. How about the rest of you?[/quote]

i have to totally agree. in my opinion, when we don't overcomplicate our brains with our thoughts, instead of just letting it do its thing. we open up sharper capabilities. when we crowed it, we greatly hinder and burden the process.

different things work for different people. i personally love instinctive shooting.

ps. great idea with the thread. Like you said though would be a little hard to control.