high brace height

[ozzy]

g'day all

got the 1916 arrows shooting pretty good out of the recurve but the brace height seems to be very high at 9inches the manufactorers recommend 8.25 to 8.75 for the bow.the bow is 62inches but any lower or higher the bow shoots very harsh and noisey string is a flemish 2 bundle 12 strand i made

hope this is not damaging the bow

cheers mick

[longbow steve]

You're not far off manufacturers specs at 9" however the lower the brace height the better for longevitey reasons.
What draw weight are you shooting? as often a light an arrow will call for a higher brace height.
1916 should suit 35-45# recurve bow on average.

[ozzy]

bow specs samick phantom 50#@28

my draw 26 have put the bow on scales and im pulling 45#@26

i lowered the brace down to 7.75 and it seems to shooting the 1916s ok and reasonably quiet as well little bit of hand shock would like to get it a bit quieter tho and take the hand shock away

cheers mick

[longbow steve]

Hi Ozzy, 2016's would assist absorbing more of the bows energy and should work well out of a 45# bow. Also if your bow is Fast Flight compatible this can help.
I go for as low a brace height as I can get good arrow flight then wind up and find the best mix of quiet, speed and tune. Steve

[ozzy]

steve got some 2013 and 2014 ordered but will look into the 2016s as well not sure how these will go still learning about the spine thing and how the allums go in spine

cheers mick

thanks for the hand to steve

[longbow steve]

Your welcome. The 2013's and 14's will be similar spine and weight to the 1916's. If you pass through the Blue Mountains ever you are welcome to try some other arrows or if you want to pay postage to and fro I can mail some 2016's to try. Steve

[longbowinfected]

what weight points you using?
I shoot 1914, 1916 for both my 43# and 49# bows when shooting alloys and I run much heavier points than 125 grain. I like 8.5 grain to the pound for alloys and slightly heavier grains per pound for my timber arrows. I like to spine arrows 5 pounds under for my near centreshot bow.

Kev

[ozzy]

kev im using 125gr and 150gr i also have some 188gr heads as well and the bow is 0 centre

[longbowinfected]

Matey,

do you go to many trad shoots?
There is a ripper on this coming weekend at Wiseman's Ferry.

Be nice to catch up with you.

Kev

[ozzy]

kev dont go to any trad shoots none around my area that i know of
and this weekend my daughter is getting christened
what weight heads are you using

with the 1916s if i use 125gr arrow length is 30"
the 150gr arrow length is 28
the 188gr same as the 150gr but the arrows drop off pretty quick

cheers mick

[dmm]

steve got some 2013 and 2014 ordered but will look into the 2016s as well not sure how these will go still learning about the spine thing and how the allums go in spine

cheers mick

thanks for the hand to steve

Thought I'd just point out that Gamegetter 500's are the equivalent of 2016's.
I rather like them as they come with nocks, and at approximately $50 for 12.
Good value I think, so you won't be crying if you loose or bend a couple.

I think they call them 500's because that is the measurement used for carbon arrows, and they figure their customers can't cope with different measures. When you buy inserts and points, you buy them in a size for 2016s.

[ozzy]

dmm

will look into them as well cheers

[Dennis La Varenne]

Ozzy,

For what it is worth, I always set my bows to the lowest braceheight I can without causing handshock for the reason that I want the longest powerstroke I can get, and the lowest load on the limbs while braced. Bracing load is a large proportion of the load on the limbs including that when it is a full draw, believe it or not - about 60% is the figure I read somewhere.

However, fibreglass bows do not suffer from this to nearly the same extent as natural material bows because of the higher elasticity of fibreglass.

In my experimentation with recurves in this regard, I found that the loudest sound and felt limb recoil comes from using minimum mass arrows. My two recurves have a braceheight of 5 inches from the back of the arrow shelf to the string and 6 inches from the throat. Others I have owned have been as high as 5 1/2 inches from the rear of the arrow shelf - never any higher - with absolutely no significant noise or recoil. They flew like darts. But, my arrows were always the traditional standard of 10gns/lb of draw weight.

Could I suggest that you try heavier arrows if you have any. It doesn't matter what they are made from. A greater arrow mass goes a great way toward absorbing excess unused limb-stored energy which is what you are experiencing. You may not need a very great mass increase to help reduce your problem either, and you may also find that the moderate arrow mass increase will not appreciably reduce your arrow speed because more of the stored limb energy goes into pushing your arrow.

The arrow absorbs more because its greater mass has greater inertia which must be overcome. The balance is that you find just the right amount of arrow mass to absorb without any (or little) left-over energy in the forward movement of the limbs which then is lost to the environment as sound and recoil. In short, when your limbs come to stop at the end of the powerstroke, there should not be any excess limb-stored energy greater than that resident in the braced limbs of the bow . . . ideally.

Also, because you have a dacron string which has a considerable amount of stretch both during the draw and at the end of the power stroke (which is why it slaps your wrist if the braceheight is too). Fastflight does not stretch at either end of the draw to any appreciable degree and you can have a quite low braceheight and consequently longer powerstroke if you use it. With Dacron, there is a catch-up from the time you loose the arrow where the limbs accelerate a bit faster than the dacron string unstretches. This catch-up stays behind the limb speed all the way through the power stroke and PAST the end of the stroke (which is why it hits your wrist). You can see this stretch if you measure the string length on your braced bow compared to its length when the bow is drawn. This will give you an idea of the amount of stretch and it might surprise you. Fastlight doesn't stretch nearly to the same extent.

This low elasticity of dacron is what prevents it transferring the limb-stored energy to the arrow as efficiently as non-strretch materials like Fastflight, linen and hemp. The arrow limbs reach the end of the power stroke before the string nock does. Dacron then restrretches forward again after reaching braceheight allowing the limbtips to move past braceheight position. They then recoil backwards and forwards until all surplus limb-stored energy is dissipated into the environment as noise and vibration.

Your Samick is a modern recurve with well reinforced limb-tips and should easily stand fastflight strings. Fastflight will both increase your arrow-speed slightly and reduce the noise significantly, but not as much as the wool cat's whiskers below.

To make them, cut about 20 strands of wool, each 2 inches long and twist them into a bundle. Make two of these and then thread each of them through the twists of your Flemish string about 2/3 of the way up from the arrow shelf. Fluff them out by twanging your string and they will certainly deaden the noise quite a lot. The additional mass is insignificant.

[dmm]

Your Samick is a modern recurve with well reinforced limb-tips and should easily stand fastflight strings. Fastflight will both increase your arrow-speed slightly and reduce the noise significantly, but not as much as the wool cat's whiskers below.

To make them, cut about 20 strands of wool, each 2 inches long and twist them into a bundle. Make two of these and then thread each of them through the twists of your Flemish string about 2/3 of the way up from the arrow shelf. Fluff them out by twanging your string and they will certainly deaden the noise quite a lot. The additional mass is insignificant.

Thanks for that tip. I've been planning to get some string silencers. This sounds so simple, that I'll definitely try this first.

[ozzy]

Ozzy,

For what it is worth, I always set my bows to the lowest braceheight I can without causing handshock for the reason that I want the longest powerstroke I can get, and the lowest load on the limbs while braced. Bracing load is a large proportion of the load on the limbs including that when it is a full draw, believe it or not - about 60% is the figure I read somewhere.

However, fibreglass bows do not suffer from this to nearly the same extent as natural material bows because of the higher elasticity of fibreglass.

In my experimentation with recurves in this regard, I found that the loudest sound and felt limb recoil comes from using minimum mass arrows. My two recurves have a braceheight of 5 inches from the back of the arrow shelf to the string and 6 inches from the throat. Others I have owned have been as high as 5 1/2 inches from the rear of the arrow shelf - never any higher - with absolutely no significant noise or recoil. They flew like darts. But, my arrows were always the traditional standard of 10gns/lb of draw weight.

Could I suggest that you try heavier arrows if you have any. It doesn't matter what they are made from. A greater arrow mass goes a great way toward absorbing excess unused limb-stored energy which is what you are experiencing. You may not need a very great mass increase to help reduce your problem either, and you may also find that the moderate arrow mass increase will not appreciably reduce your arrow speed because more of the stored limb energy goes into pushing your arrow.

The arrow absorbs more because its greater mass has greater inertia which must be overcome. The balance is that you find just the right amount of arrow mass to absorb without any (or little) left-over energy in the forward movement of the limbs which then is lost to the environment as sound and recoil. In short, when your limbs come to stop at the end of the powerstroke, there should not be any excess limb-stored energy greater than that resident in the braced limbs of the bow . . . ideally.

Also, because you have a dacron string which has a considerable amount of stretch both during the draw and at the end of the power stroke (which is why it slaps your wrist if the braceheight is too). Fastflight does not stretch at either end of the draw to any appreciable degree and you can have a quite low braceheight and consequently longer powerstroke if you use it. With Dacron, there is a catch-up from the time you loose the arrow where the limbs accelerate a bit faster than the dacron string unstretches. This catch-up stays behind the limb speed all the way through the power stroke and PAST the end of the stroke (which is why it hits your wrist). You can see this stretch if you measure the string length on your braced bow compared to its length when the bow is drawn. This will give you an idea of the amount of stretch and it might surprise you. Fastlight doesn't stretch nearly to the same extent.

This low elasticity of dacron is what prevents it transferring the limb-stored energy to the arrow as efficiently as non-strretch materials like Fastflight, linen and hemp. The arrow limbs reach the end of the power stroke before the string nock does. Dacron then restrretches forward again after reaching braceheight allowing the limbtips to move past braceheight position. They then recoil backwards and forwards until all surplus limb-stored energy is dissipated into the environment as noise and vibration.

Your Samick is a modern recurve with well reinforced limb-tips and should easily stand fastflight strings. Fastflight will both increase your arrow-speed slightly and reduce the noise significantly, but not as much as the wool cat's whiskers below.

To make them, cut about 20 strands of wool, each 2 inches long and twist them into a bundle. Make two of these and then thread each of them through the twists of your Flemish string about 2/3 of the way up from the arrow shelf. Fluff them out by twanging your string and they will certainly deaden the noise quite a lot. The additional mass is insignificant.

worth a lot mate ...thanks for the input
cheers mick