Martin Viper as new condition withdrawn from sale

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Chase N. Nocks
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Martin Viper as new condition withdrawn from sale

#1 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:43 am

If you live in Metro Brisbane I will deliver it

Martin Viper carbon limb longbow, 55lb@28 and 64 inch overall....Excellent near new condition, very rarely shot.

Fast bow with a smooth draw and very nice shooting style. 55lb is pretty much at the upper level of where I am shooting these days so it will not get much use.

This bow is a serious hunting bow with very good performance.



Excellent shooter and if I had the $$$ for other projects and for my kids I would not be selling. Photos when I can.

Cheers
Troy
Last edited by Chase N. Nocks on Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:50 pm, edited 10 times in total.
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#2 Post by Benny Nganabbarru » Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:59 am

Now, Tony was after a nice little Hill just like that for plinking dinosaurs...

Good luck with the sale.
It's the great, big, broad land 'way up yonder,
It's the forests where silence has lease;
It's the beauty that thrills me with wonder,
It's the stillness that fills me with peace.

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#3 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:36 pm

Hey Thanks Ben,

Perfect bow for someone who wants to save themselves $160 + in shipping. edit this to $115 thanks Ben I do not wish to do a disservice to Craig, very decent bloke for sure. In fact that shipping price if current is about the best I've heard of for a bow from the States. Shipping costs have increased dramatically in the last 12-18 months.

They will save themselves a wait anyway.

Cheers
Troy
Last edited by Chase N. Nocks on Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#4 Post by Benny Nganabbarru » Mon Apr 04, 2011 2:43 pm

Actually, I must disagree slightly: Craig offers one of the best shipping deals around for a one-piece longbow to Australia, at US$115 via FedEx, delivered to your house. Whereas if you buy a one-piece bow from a private seller over there, the cost can be as much as US$230.

But those Hills are nice bows, eh.
It's the great, big, broad land 'way up yonder,
It's the forests where silence has lease;
It's the beauty that thrills me with wonder,
It's the stillness that fills me with peace.

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#5 Post by motty » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:31 pm

Chase N Nocks
Does the Martin Viper pull a true 55# at 28, measured from the front of the arrow shelf?
Only asking because 55# is the upper limit for me aswell. Would prefer 2 or 3 pounds lighter
but am keen on this bow.
Thanks
Motty

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#6 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Mon Apr 04, 2011 3:46 pm

Ben Kleinig wrote:Actually, I must disagree slightly: Craig offers one of the best shipping deals around for a one-piece longbow to Australia, at US$115 via FedEx, delivered to your house. Whereas if you buy a one-piece bow from a private seller over there, the cost can be as much as US$230.

But those Hills are nice bows, eh.
Fixed the shipping...yes private sellers/buyers do get stung pretty hard for shipping..I wonder whether Craig has some grandfather clause happening. :lol:

Mate the Hill bows are nice and well priced for a basic well made straight laid longbow. And I would not hesitate to buy another down the track. You will pay more for some extra stuff that may be standard on other bows so it does even out with other custom bows. But there is something special about being a member of the Hill fraternity.

When you buy and sell you take a hit but that is what happens when your short and something else is calling. I bought this when the $$ was not so good but you simlpy can not factor that in and expect to sell. If you could I could have added $200 to that price and not be embarresed. It's that simple.

Cheers
Troy
Last edited by Chase N. Nocks on Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#7 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:08 pm

motty wrote:Chase N Nocks
Does the Martin Viper pull a true 55# at 28, measured from the front of the arrow shelf?
Only asking because 55# is the upper limit for me aswell. Would prefer 2 or 3 pounds lighter
but am keen on this bow.
Thanks
Motty
Motty that is a good question and I will check tonight. I have a set of digital scales at home.

I never measured it because it seemed to draw so smooth I was rather chuffed at the fact that my arms and shoulders seemed to be handling it so well.

I could certainly shoot this bow at a ABA or 3DAAA event and probably need to concentrate a little more by the end of challenging course to maintain form I would struggle much more with a FITA or AA event where lots of arrows are shot close together. And this is the Archery disciplie where my head and heart is mostly at, at the moment.

Hunting you would not notice.

I'll find out and get back to you.

Cheers
Troy
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#8 Post by Benny Nganabbarru » Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:36 pm

Have you seen this thread on TradGang?

http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.p ... 1;t=098600

It's a monster!
It's the great, big, broad land 'way up yonder,
It's the forests where silence has lease;
It's the beauty that thrills me with wonder,
It's the stillness that fills me with peace.

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#9 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:22 pm

Ben Kleinig wrote:Have you seen this thread on TradGang?

http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.p ... 1;t=098600

It's a monster!
I know mate, I've made a couple attempts to work my way through it. Damn it's nice to know if I ever make it to some trad shoots in the USA one of these days then fellow bow tragics will not be hard to find. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The Howard Hill tragics may be the hardest hit of the lot...I think followed by Bear Recurve enthusiasts...god bless us, everyone.

Cheers
Troy
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#10 Post by Nephew » Mon Apr 04, 2011 6:06 pm

Chase N. Nocks wrote:Hey Ben,
Craig, very decent bloke for sure.
Cheers
Troy
Why, thank you matey! Very kind indeed, more than I deserve, really. :oops:
:wink: :lol:
Lately, if life were treating me any better, I'd be suspicious of it's motives!

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#11 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Mon Apr 04, 2011 7:13 pm

motty wrote:Chase N Nocks
Does the Martin Viper pull a true 55# at 28, measured from the front of the arrow shelf?
Only asking because 55# is the upper limit for me aswell. Would prefer 2 or 3 pounds lighter
but am keen on this bow.
Thanks
Motty
Hi Motty,

I have just measured it and the scales come up at definitely 55lb measured at 28 inches to the front of the riser. Being the part of the riser furtherest away from the riser. I was in an awkward position but it was a bit over 4 out of 5 times so about 55.6lb would be about right.

Stringing it and pulling it back it does feel like a 55lb bow. It is smooth but you do feel that little extra tension from my 50lb recurves. I wish I could say different but that would leave you maybe choosing a bow you'll not like and that would not be fair.

Cheers
Troy
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

motty
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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#12 Post by motty » Mon Apr 04, 2011 9:15 pm

Thanks for that.
My shooting form goes to pot with a bow over 52#
Have not read a bad word about the Viper.
Good luck with the sale

Motty

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#13 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Tue Apr 05, 2011 5:40 am

motty wrote:Thanks for that.
My shooting form goes to pot with a bow over 52#
Have not read a bad word about the Viper.
Good luck with the sale

Motty
Thanks for looking and asking mate. Yes the Viper does get a pretty good wrap from most quarters. Even I am surprised what a rocket it is. I have not shot carbons out of it so that would be interesting.
Cheers
Troy
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#14 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Fri Apr 29, 2011 9:01 am

TTT
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#15 Post by greybeard » Fri Apr 29, 2011 10:15 pm

Chase N. Nocks wrote:
motty wrote:Chase N Nocks
Does the Martin Viper pull a true 55# at 28, measured from the front of the arrow shelf?
Only asking because 55# is the upper limit for me aswell. Would prefer 2 or 3 pounds lighter
but am keen on this bow.
Thanks
Motty
Hi Motty,

I have just measured it and the scales come up at definitely 55lb measured at 28 inches to the front of the riser. Being the part of the riser furtherest away from the riser. I was in an awkward position but it was a bit over 4 out of 5 times so about 55.6lb would be about right.

Stringing it and pulling it back it does feel like a 55lb bow. It is smooth but you do feel that little extra tension from my 50lb recurves. I wish I could say different but that would leave you maybe choosing a bow you'll not like and that would not be fair.

Cheers
Troy
Hi Motty and Troy,

I believe that using the AMO method [xyz# @ 28”] yields dodgy numbers in relation to the actual draw length of the archer.

For accurate numbers I would suggest using the Draw Length Pivot Point method [DLPP].

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#16 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Sat Apr 30, 2011 12:04 pm

Thanks Daryl, I agree with you that in the interests of consistent readings from one bow brand to another this is the way we should all do it. I did this particular reading from the back of the bow because that I think has been the most accepted and it came closest to the 55lb mark (55.6lb). If pulled 28 inches to the pivot point then it would have gone 58lb at least I think.

I probably would have made only about 2lb difference .. I sure I was measuring 28 inches from the back of the bow.

It is confusing because don't most manufacturers use the back of the bow as the bench mark and even though the arrow is reading 28 inches to the back of the bow working from the pivot point means that my draw length is 26 3/4's inches but I shoot with 29 1/2 inch arrows. 26 3/4 inch draw with this bow anyway..

Cheers
Troy
I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#17 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sat Apr 30, 2011 2:28 pm

Sorry for the hijack Troy but unlike Daryl I don't see much point in using the DDPP when stating draw lengths as the industry standard is the AMO standards and probably 99 per cent of the industry uses these standards.

AMO DRAW LENGTH STANDARD

For Manufacturers
Draw length is a specified distance, or the distance at the archer’s full draw, from
the nocking point on the string to the pivot point of the bow grip (or the theoretical
vertical projection of a tangency line to the pivot point parallel to the string)
plus 1 3/4”. Draw length from pivot point shall be designed at DLPP and shall be
called TRUE DRAW LENGTH.

EXAMPLE: 26 1/4” DLPP plus 1 3/4” is the equivalent of 28” draw.

For Dealers and General Use
For practical reasons not requiring precise terms, draw length is the distance, at
the archer’s full draw, from the nocking point on the string to the back of the bow
at the arrow rest.

EXPLANATION: The standard Manufacturers is consistent with the Bow
Weight Standard as related to the pivot point. The DLPP plus 1 3/4” is compatible
to previous concepts of draw length. (See handle illustration.) Draw length
for Dealers and General Use relieves the burden of preciseness not required for
general use and facilitates determining arrow length. THIS STANDARD SUPERSEDES
THE PREVIOUS STANDARD.

As it is explained in these standards I think draw length measured from the nocking point to the back of the bow is consistant and far less confusing for all concerned.

Jeff

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Re: Two Longbows for sale

#18 Post by greybeard » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:25 pm

motty wrote:Chase N Nocks
Does the Martin Viper pull a true 55# at 28, measured from the front of the arrow shelf?
Only asking because 55# is the upper limit for me aswell. Would prefer 2 or 3 pounds lighter
but am keen on this bow.
Thanks
Motty
Hi Motty,

What is your true draw length?

You are talking about two to three pounds regarding a comfortable draw weight.

If you are drawing 26” to 27” [AMO] you may not have a problem.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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DLPP.Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for s

#19 Post by GrahameA » Sun May 01, 2011 7:24 am

Hi Jeff.
Stickbow Hunter wrote:Sorry for the hijack Troy but unlike Daryl I don't see much point in using the DDPP when stating draw lengths as the industry standard is the AMO standards and probably 99 per cent of the industry uses these standards.

As it is explained in these standards I think draw length measured from the nocking point to the back of the bow is consistant and far less confusing for all concerned.

Jeff
IMHO DLPP gives a more consistent result. This becomes evident when using a simple longbow compare to recurve which has a deeply sculptured handgrip. You are are likely to end up with two draw lengths as the riser section width is significantly different.

In my experience the failure of people to "Read the Instructions" with regard to arrow selection charts is a prime reason why many people get incorrectly spined arrows.

Those with technical mindset mau wish to read http://www.meta-synthesis.com/archery/archery.html
Grahame.
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"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#20 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun May 01, 2011 10:11 am

GrahameA wrote:IMHO DLPP gives a more consistent result. This becomes evident when using a simple longbow compare to recurve which has a deeply sculptured handgrip. You are are likely to end up with two draw lengths as the riser section width is significantly different.
It does but the point I was making is that 99 per cent of the archery industry uses the AMO standards to list bow weights and for people to start stating other figures will only lead to confusion - causing confusion seems popular now days though. :roll:

Jeff

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#21 Post by GrahameA » Sun May 01, 2011 10:16 am

Hi Jeff.
Stickbow Hunter wrote:[- causing confusion seems popular now days though.
Yep. Having one standard and sticking to it makes things overly easy. One would not want to make it easy for people. :shock:
Grahame.
Shoot a Selfbow, embrace Wood Arrows, discover Vintage, be a Trendsetter.

"Unfortunately, the equating of simplicity with truth doesn't often work in real life. It doesn't often work in science, either." Dr Len Fisher.

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#22 Post by Sparra » Sun May 01, 2011 7:56 pm

Hi fella's...This is maybe a stupid question but are you measuring the draw length from the back of the bow shelf(closest point from string to bow or from string to the front of the bow(furthest point of bow away from archer)...I have heard over the years of people measuring from all different points and that is the reason for the query...

Cheers...Sparra
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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#23 Post by Gringa Bows » Sun May 01, 2011 8:03 pm

I've always measured draw length from the string to the( back of the bow,target side of the bow)

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#24 Post by Sparra » Sun May 01, 2011 8:09 pm

Thanks for the reply Rod...That's where I have always measured from as well but I have heard a lot of people calling the back of the bow the side that is closest to the archer as described in my above post...

cheers...Sparra
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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#25 Post by Gringa Bows » Sun May 01, 2011 8:13 pm

Yeah mate a lot of new people get confused with the back and belly of bows,myself included in the beginning. :oops:

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#26 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun May 01, 2011 8:15 pm

Sparra, the back of the bow faces the target and the belly of the bow faces the archer.

Jeff

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#27 Post by Sparra » Sun May 01, 2011 8:36 pm

Thanks for the reply Jeff and I hope we are not taking this thread too far off track...I think a lot of the misunderstanding is in calling it the front and belly as apposed to the front and back of the bow which a lot of people who are not told otherwise would relate to,myself included until I joined up here...

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#28 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun May 01, 2011 8:46 pm

Sparra wrote:I think a lot of the misunderstanding is in calling it the front and belly as apposed to the front and back of the bow which a lot of people who are not told otherwise would relate to,myself included until I joined up here...
Notice the bold; that would be back and belly mate. :wink: :lol:

Jeff

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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#29 Post by Sparra » Sun May 01, 2011 8:58 pm

OOps... :oops: :oops: :oops:
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Re: Two Longbows for sale...make that one Longbow for sale

#30 Post by Chase N. Nocks » Sun May 01, 2011 9:01 pm

Even more confusing Sparra is that both Jeff and Daryl make excellent and valid points. Grahame also hits on a problem as well and this relates to what Daryl refers to as "Real Draw Length" and that must consistantly be from the string to the riser pivot point.

I actually think this is a really important tackle question and could have a topic of it's own that seeks a clear method of two parties finding exactly what they are chasing. This would be important under any circumstances but especially important when someone is ordering a custom bow and spending considerable money.

Here is a great example of the the different point of discussion. Notice the Super Diablo and the Howard Hill...there is a large difference between the back of the bow and the pivot point. Both to my knowledge us the the BOB method that Jeff has illustrated to determine poundage at 28". But the riser on the Diablo is very deep, a full inch at least, I think deeper than the Hill. The archers Real Draw length remains the same based on the pivot point but they may have to use two different arrow lengths in these two bows particularly if they are using broadheads.

I am glad that I have not been the only person to scratch their heads over this...and a conversation about draw length, arrow length and poundage@28 is not without danger of becoming murky.



Jeff you and Daryl (in fact anyone ) are always welcome to jump into one of my threads in the sake of education the only thing hijacked is ignorance.

Cheers
Troy
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I am an Archer. I am not a traditional archer, bowhunter, compound shooter or target archer.....I am an Archer
"Shooting the Stickbow"

....enforced by the "whistling grey-goose wing."
"The Witchery of Archery"

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