Wood bows and the Australian Climate

[Brumbies Country]

The bow had been used to shoot a three arrow ABA round in the morning Dave. This was the first shot in the afternoon, so the bow hadn't been warmed up prior to that arrow, but the outside temperature was 33 degrees. I think it comes down to the fact that wood bows, in contrast to wood/fibreglass bows, are inherently capable of breaking even when really well built out of what is traditionally excepted to be one of the best woods for bow construction.

Simon

[Len]

Wholeheartedly agree Simon. Most of the bows I've seen fail were made from spotted gum , so I think it comes down to how well the bow was made, how the bow is being used, the quality of timber used and a bit of luck.

[Glenn]

I think the cold dry winters down south would be hard on bows and dry the timber out a lot. Spotted gum is a very good bow wood but the trees need to be grown west of the Great Divide and not on the eastern side which is very inferior. I had a fair bit of spotty given to me years ago but it was only good for firewood as it came from around Maleny, I never got one decent slefbow out of it. The best spotty comes from the stony ridges out west. There are much better timbers that can be sourced that grow on the east coast...Glenn...

[Brumbies Country]

Wholeheartedly agree Simon. Most of the bows I've seen fail were made from spotted gum , so I think it comes down to how well the bow was made, how the bow is being used, the quality of timber used and a bit of luck.

Something to be said for having more than one wooden bow on hand Len .

[Brumbies Country]

I got a copy of "Ther Bent Stick" on Monday, Glenn and thanks for recommending it. Great book. He's had the odd bow break but great his analysis of the bows he's made, woods used, length of cast, effects of backing etc.

Simon

[Glenn]

Paul Comstock is one of the nicest people in archery, he is so hunble it's embarassing, he is a very good craftsman and builds very nice bows. I like the Bent Stick a lot, it is simply written and esay to understand....Glenn....

[jape]

I got a copy of "Ther Bent Stick" on Monday, Glenn and thanks for recommending it. Great book. He's had the odd bow break but great his analysis of the bows he's made, woods used, length of cast, effects of backing etc.

Simon

did you get it in Aus or did you have to go to 3rivers or horsefeathers please?

[Moss]

Just an opinion on Japes bow

My fellow bowyers out there will probable have a reasonable understanding that when you first cut a piece of wood that's not quite fully seasoned it is likely to warp no matter how straight you cut it (my dad explained the physics behind this a few months back but i can't seem to recall it at the moment) it generally happens less so with big pieces than it does with little pieces though if you hold them straight when there drying they'll dry straight. Anyway what im getting at is maybe one of the pieces of wood was worked to early and not quite dry enough on the inside so when he shaped the belly the process of drying sped up but stopped when the bow was varnished or oiled. Though because the humidity loss the bows finish is maybe failing hence the bow is starting to warp with the drying process starting again. Hope it made sense.

I'm probable totally wrong oh well

[Brumbies Country]

I got a copy of "Ther Bent Stick" on Monday, Glenn and thanks for recommending it. Great book. He's had the odd bow break but great his analysis of the bows he's made, woods used, length of cast, effects of backing etc.

Simon

did you get it in Aus or did you have to go to 3rivers or horsefeathers please?

Sorry for the delay in reply Roland. My wife got it for me from 3 Rivers

Simon

[jape]

Thanks Simon, I shall send off for it sometime. Hoped someone in Aus had it.

Thanks Moss, this was a board and 'boo bow made by Yeoman and altered by me, I think it was dry enough when sealed but the finish could well have been compromised although it looks OK. It hasn't come back much even with a weight suspended from it. I'm pretty sure it was something to do with the aircon and as it is my only bow at present I am going to just shoot it until something else happens. Accuracy is about the same (poor) but that is me!

[longbow steve]

When do you get your bow replacement Jape?
Simon, did you go to Orange? It was fun shooting with Richard but Kevin gave him a hard time.
Steve

[greybeard]

Hi Simon,

You neglected to include details such as was the bow a full compass English style longbow with a deep ‘D’ cross section, nock to nock length, draw length and the draw weight of the bow.

Putting workmanship aside one has to ask the question was the chosen wood [Osage] suitable for the design?

Moisture content was mentioned in some of the replies to your post but do we know what the correct moisture content for the different species of timber is?

A bowyer must select the correct wood for a particular design of bow.

Daryl.

[longbowinfected]

Steve,

me hard on someone?
I cannot imagine that.

Kevin

[jape]

When do you get your bow replacement Jape? Steve

I'm not sure Steve, it has been a couple of months but when I asked for an idea of time they said 'not long - just a few weeks'. I have to sit and wait patiently I think as I know their waiting list for new bows can be 6 months or more.

[Brumbies Country]

When do you get your bow replacement Jape?
Simon, did you go to Orange? It was fun shooting with Richard but Kevin gave him a hard time.
Steve

Hi Steve

Your score looked pretty good given the windy conditions. Richard's a good bloke. I see Kevin finished ahead of him. The three of you would have got on pretty well.

Yes went to Orange. Not many there but a good bunch. I started each round badly but finished shooting better at the end in three of the four rounds. Only one shooting Historic bow and I miss the competition a bit. However I met Peter Rogers from Cobar and he's made a number of bows over the years. Had a flatbow that I was really impressed with. 10 years old bow made out of Acacia doratoxylon (Common names Currawang and Lancewood). Lovely dark wood and beautifully finshed. Arthur Fisk wasn't shooting but he had a very interesting selection of bows on display and some interesting comments. Interesting couple of days.

Cheers

Simon

[Brumbies Country]

Hi Simon,

You neglected to include details such as was the bow a full compass English style longbow with a deep ‘D’ cross section, nock to nock length, draw length and the draw weight of the bow.

Putting workmanship aside one has to ask the question was the chosen wood [Osage] suitable for the design?

Moisture content was mentioned in some of the replies to your post but do we know what the correct moisture content for the different species of timber is?

A bowyer must select the correct wood for a particular design of bow.

Daryl.

Hi Darryl

Yes compass by my interpretation. D shaped longbow around 68 " nock to nock and 45lbs at 28". His draw length is around 27". The bowyer would be well known to those who have been round trad shoots for some time. He and I both wondered about moisture content. One comment he made was that maybe it could have been longer. Been a fair few osage ELB's made over the years. I've spoken to one or two bowyers who specialise in selfbows since and it's a sad fact of life that sooner or later a reasonable percentage break. I'm taking all sorts of precautions with mine and tucking it into bed every night .

Cheers

Simon

[longbow steve]

[quote]I'm not sure Steve, it has been a couple of months but when I asked for an idea of time they said 'not long - just a few weeks'. I have to sit and wait patiently I think as I know their waiting list for new bows can be 6 months or more.
[
I hope you get it soon Jape.
Hi Simon, Pete Rogers is a nice guy, good to see someone commited to the selfbow.
Arthur mentioned he met you there What were the interesting comments?
Canberra was fun, Kev and I shot with about 3 hours sleep as we woke up with water swags on saturday morning:(. The conditions on saturday werent to bad, I just couldnt get it to feel right. Steve

[alaninoz]

Steve:

One of Arthur's that I remember was cock feather in or out, with him recommending in. I tried it on the Sunday and it didn't seem to make much difference to the arrow in flight, but it seemed to put the strike point a few inches to the right. Simon may add more.

[longbow steve]

Hi Alan, Yeah he has been on about that for a couple of months I think if your bow is tuned you wont get feather clearance issues either way but it is worth a shot, it may work for some .
Steve

[longbowinfected]

Once you get your arrows tuned to your bow and your string nocking point set on my bow you do not need to even look to see whether you are cock feather in or out. It works for me and both Arthur and Steve showed me how to best set up my bows and arrows. Arthur has a lot of worthwhile knowledge and experience. Between Steve, myself and Ian Fenton we created a monster when we got Arthur interested in trad bows......he is pretty handy at making them and shooting them.
Good bloke.

Kevin

[alaninoz]

Yes, Arthur makes a good looking bow and they seem to shoot well. I didn't try one as I thought I might over-draw it. 33" draw can't be good for bows made for a 28" draw! I'll second what Simon said about the finish of Arthur's bows - beautiful.

[Brumbies Country]

Hi Alan, Yeah he has been on about that for a couple of months I think if your bow is tuned you wont get feather clearance issues either way but it is worth a shot, it may work for some .
Steve

Missed commenting on this yesterday. I was in Sydney all day but when I got home I tried the cock feather in and liked what resulted. That was with a conventional longbow but I will give it a try with the ELB. I didn't hear all of what Arthur said and wish I had, because he's got alot of accumulated knowledge.

Simon

[GrahameA]

Morning Simon

.. I tried the cock feather in and liked what resulted. That was with a conventional longbow but I will give it a try with the ELB.

Why would putting the Cock Fletch in make any difference to how the bow shoots?

I am assuming that the amplitude and timing of the vibration is such that there is no contact issue.

[Glenn]

If you are having troubles with arrows not hitting where you are looking and by putting the cock feather in an this corrects it you have arrow spine problems which need to be corrected. I have shot with the cock feather in and it does work but as I said something is not right. The less a bow is cut to centre the more critical the dynamic spine has to be and the more cut past centre a bow is the release becomes mopre of a factor...Glenn...

[Brumbies Country]

Good Afternoon Grahame

I tried it with my light bow, the 30lb one. I have found with a relatively light bow that my release is not as crisp so I wonder if the fletch in with a cushioning effect cleans that up a bit. Glenn was I think suggesting that it can have a beneficial effect on release. The weight of the bow and quality of release has been something I've been meaning to ask about on the forum. I feel it becomes a little cleaner as I progress to a 38lb ELB then to a 40 lb conventional longbow, then to its 48lb brother. I figured that as the poundage increases the string slips away more cleanly. It's a bit of a pity that a more than mildly stuffed bowarm precludes using the 48lb bow more than occasionally.

Simon

[GrahameA]

Hi Simon

IMHO. Talking Aluminium/Carbon arrows they should be symmetriacl in all planes so it should make no difference as to the orientation of the shaft.

Wood Arrows however are not symmetrical and as such flipping them may give you different initial flex. But the Natural frequency should not change.

... so I wonder if the fletch in with a cushioning effect cleans that up a bit.

My comment would be that any contact is bad because it is not consistent.

Flipping wood arrows over make give you different launch deformations of the arrow.

Note to self - take some video of arrows with the cock feather in and the cock feather out and look at the difference.

If contact is occurring then the natural frequency is wrong or the amplitude is not enough.

Glenn was I think suggesting that it can have a beneficial effect on release. The weight of the bow and quality of release has been something I've been meaning to ask about on the forum.

IMHO it seems to be easier to get a cleaner release with increased poundage but I do not know if that is a result of the string coming away cleaner or is it the result of the muscle and appropriate muscles working better, etc. My "gut feel" is that increasing the poundage force me to use other muscles and you will have noticed from recent videos that my dead release has gone (and that was just hard work).

[Brumbies Country]

Thanks Grahame

The subject of the note to self, video re cock feather in and then out, will be interesting. Should settle this in a scientific manner. Look forward to it with interest.

Simon