Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

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greybeard
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Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#1 Post by greybeard » Tue May 13, 2014 4:26 pm

Although I received a reasonably large supply of Osage for which I was grateful it has been a nightmare trying to find a reasonably straight knot free piece to make a bow.
01 Osage Billet.jpg
01 Osage Billet.jpg (43.84 KiB) Viewed 5916 times
Eventually I settled on a section of split log that could yield a piece fifty five inches long. With correct orientation of the bow the knots should not pose any significant problems.

Close and erratic growth rings made it virtually impossible to isolate a specific ring and as my drawknife was virtually useless on this stave I used a spoke shave and sandpaper to bring up the back.
02 Growth Rings.JPG
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03 Working Down To Growth Ring.jpg
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The log gave up a stave that showed some deflex and the slightest hint of reflex. To reduce tip to string angle I decided to steam some recurve into the tips.
07 Recurving Tips.JPG
07 Recurving Tips.JPG (56.95 KiB) Viewed 5916 times
A slight propeller twist in the stave threw the recurved tips out of alignment so dry heat was applied outboard of the fades to allow the twist to be removed.
Osage Compilation.jpg
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Rudimentary nocks have been cut in and will be cleaned up in the final stages.
09 Tip Style.JPG
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The bows tiller looks quite good on the tiller board so I won’t make any adjustments until it has been fitted with the correct length string and the limbs have been exercised.

More details and photos to follow shortly.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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bigbob
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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#2 Post by bigbob » Tue May 13, 2014 4:34 pm

Be watching this with interest Daryl.
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longbowinfected
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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#3 Post by longbowinfected » Tue May 13, 2014 5:07 pm

love your work. Love that yellow wood. Define straight when talking OO.

Kevin
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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#4 Post by Hamish » Tue May 13, 2014 6:30 pm

It would be a good idea to back this one with rawhide due to the thin latewood near the back. Thin rings like to pop even on a bow that lasts through tillering and shoot in.
Hamish.

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#5 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Wed May 14, 2014 5:12 am

Very nice Modoc style bow there Darryl. I agree with Hamish about applying backing, albeit the Modocs and the West Coast Indians tended to use sinew backing. I have made long bows from violated Osage without backing and having wafer thin growth rings that did not break. But even so, I would err on the side of caution with a short bow I think.

The rawhide I have used was kangaroo which I bought from Packer's at Petrie just north of Brisbane. It is thin enough to be translucent and its yellowish colour would go well against Osage I should think.

Just a note on early- and latewood - latewood is the denser summer growth wood and usually lighter in colour than earlywood which is the darker powdery stuff between which starts with spring and the tree coming out of winter hibernation. Latewood is called that because it grows later (summer) in the tree's growth cycle each year.
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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#6 Post by Peregrine » Wed May 14, 2014 9:11 am

Very interesting, looking forward to the next instalment. Wonderful :D

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#7 Post by rodlonq » Wed May 14, 2014 12:58 pm

Yes, very interesting. It looks like it will have some serious poundage too. As always, your work is inspirational Daryl.

Cheers... Rod

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#8 Post by greybeard » Wed May 14, 2014 4:29 pm

Thank you for your interest;
longbowinfected wrote:Define straight when talking OO.
Kevin, this is not straight.
Not Straight.jpg
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Hamish and Dennis,

I had planed to back the bow with sinew but if I cannot source quality sinew I will opt for rawhide. I have some white Japanese jockey silk that goes transparent when used with PVA glues but silk would not be authentic for this style of bow.

Whilst at the Barambah Trad Bash I saw a half billet of Osage that was gun barrel straight, displayed excellent growth rings and was very heavy for its dimensions.

On a scale of 1 to 10 with the above being 10, I would rate my Osage as 1.

The stave was tillered by eye so I was quite pleased when I braced the bow; I won’t do any further tillering until the bow has been backed. The bow is asymmetrical.
Braced Bow Upper Limb Right Side.jpg
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Upper Limb Left Side.jpg
Upper Limb Left Side.jpg (23.19 KiB) Viewed 5845 times
Early string tension is good although I believe the bow will be restricted to about a 25” draw length.

Rod,

I post these bow projects in the hope that it will motivate people to have a go. If one wishes to be resourceful material costs are a minor issue and bows can be fashioned with basic hand tools.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#9 Post by The Hunt » Wed May 14, 2014 4:48 pm

I saw that stave as well, someone is very lucky!

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#10 Post by rodlonq » Wed May 14, 2014 8:29 pm

WOW is all I can say. Daryl, it is amazing what you have done with that stave :surprised: :mrgreen: . Kudos x 10 for your skills and determination.

The almost finished bow looks great, I hope you can find some quality sinew to do it justice (as planned).

Cheers... Rod

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#11 Post by cmoore » Thu May 15, 2014 4:02 pm

Jeeez thats an excellent looking bow!!...tiller looks spot on!, certainty dont look asymmetrical :shock: ...just finished up a lil osage paddle bow myself, 2 layers of sinew on the back and just a tad shorter than yours
20140515_160846-1.jpg
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:lol: .... 13" OAL draws 8#@7"
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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#12 Post by longbow steve » Thu May 15, 2014 4:13 pm

Very Nice Daryl, I love shorty Osage bows. I agree the rings don't look ideal. Asian grocery suppliers online have Deer Tendons.
Nice bow CMoore, welldone. Cheers Steve

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#13 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Thu May 15, 2014 5:44 pm

Apologies to Daryl for going off-topic below. That really is a ripper of a little bow Daryl. There are quite a few of the US websites selling sinew as backing including 3Rivers.

CMoore,

I once made this Osage bow for a mate's 2yo son. They still have it. That was about 20+ years ago now. It has a 6 strand Flemish laid string and those little arrows without filights could pass through both sides of a plastic bucket from 10m without slowing down. I think it was 10lb @ 12". Dad is holding it too high and stressing the upper limb too much.
2yo Nathan's bow.jpg
2yo Nathan's bow.jpg (208.79 KiB) Viewed 5805 times
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#14 Post by cmoore » Thu May 15, 2014 6:23 pm

I had planed to back the bow with sinew but if I cannot source quality sinew I will opt for rawhide. I have some white Japanese jockey silk that goes transparent when used with PVA glues but silk would not be authentic for this style of bow.
What exactly are you referring to when you mention quality sinew graybeard?, are you meaning back strap sinew as apposed to leg?, or did you want to chuck some endangered white rhino sinew on it? :lol:

Isn't it funny in that pic dennis posted that the kid is holding the bow better than the dad!
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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#15 Post by greybeard » Fri May 16, 2014 2:28 pm

Back to the drawing board.

Whilst bracing the bow to fit a new string there was an almighty cracking sound and within a split second part of the upper limb had travelled about five metres towards the end of my workshop.

There was no warning of the impending disaster, the upper limb exploded and I had not reached brace height. Even if my tillering was not spot on I would not expect a limb to fail in this manner.

I doubt if any form of backing on this style of bow would have prevented this type of failure.

The next project will be a flat bow from Osage out of the same batch and backed with pole bamboo.

As they say a picture is worth a thousand words.

Daryl.
Back.jpg
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Back And Belly.jpg
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End View.jpg
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Edge View.jpg
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"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#16 Post by bigbob » Fri May 16, 2014 5:48 pm

the joys of all wood bows Hey? Feel your pain Daryl, but cant offer anything constructive as to the where's and why's of such a spectacular implosion.
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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#17 Post by longbow steve » Fri May 16, 2014 6:32 pm

bigbob wrote:the joys of all wood bows Hey? Feel your pain Daryl, but cant offer anything constructive as to the where's and why's of such a spectacular implosion.
Poor early to late wood ratio in the growth rings coupled with thin rings makes it hard to pre tiller before backing. Sorry to see it fail daryl, it was looking good. Steve

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#18 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Fri May 16, 2014 6:43 pm

Dear oh, dear! That is a pretty spectacular break. However, harking back to your early comments about finding it very difficult to follow a single growth ring on the back, you may have the answer there.

I have made Osage ELBs using close grained stuff with the same problem, but they survived only because they were backed with good rawhide and of course, I doubt very much that there would have been anything like the tension load on their backs because of their length.

I can say with some seriousness now that the wider the growthrings are in Osage, the better it will shoot and the stronger it is. The more the growth rings, the lighter the stave ususally is and weaker. The good growth rings are the light coloured summer growth or late wood. Those are the ones which should be on the back. It doesn't seem to matter how wide the spring growth or earlywood is, so long as it is not on the back. The most spectacular performing Osage bows I have ever made for myself were made with very wide latewood.

That very heavy billet/stave you mentioned above sounds like it could be of the right stuff. If you reproduced the same bow using wide latewood stuff, you would barely have a limb of one or two growthrings and they shoot like blazes. The minimum of latewood I would now use after all my Osage bows is 1/16", but preferably 1/8" or wider. Good stuff hefts like a lead pipe and when properly dry has a very nice ring to it when tapped.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#19 Post by mikaluger » Fri May 16, 2014 9:32 pm

So it just doesn't happen to me!!!!!!!!!
With all respect grey beard, It just goes to show it happens to the most experienced of us!!!!
Poo happens...........
look forward to the next one buddy.

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#20 Post by greybeard » Sat May 17, 2014 8:56 am

It is very disappointing that this bow did not make the grade but unfortunately this outcome is a part and parcel of making selfbows. Not having used Osage before I did not know what to expect.

I do not believe that tiller was a contributing factor in the bows demise and I am trying to determine if the limbs were too thick for the bows length.

One interesting point with the failure is that the timber on the back of the bow cracked in a straight line and at almost 90˚ to the centre line.

On the positive side I have gained some knowledge as to the properties [good and bad] in Osage. The remaining Osage stock will be used in bows of a lower stress design and backed with pole bamboo.

Hopefully this particular Osage will be able to handle the compression forces exerted by the bamboo.

If and when I find some suitable Osage I will definitely try this bow design again.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#21 Post by cmoore » Sat May 17, 2014 10:04 am

My condolences
The only thing I can contribute is a similar experience I've had when heat bending osage whilst recurving tips, I clamped down the very tip to my work bench & pushed down on the rest of the bow hanging off the bench, think I pushed her down too hard & fast and literally saw the timber open up and tear like a zipper, it tore open so cleanly that the growth ring underneath was still intact and like in your case the fracture was 90 degrees.
My guess is that it's too much tension for that poor lil growth ring to handle and it just stretches apart
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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#22 Post by greybeard » Sat May 17, 2014 12:02 pm

When recurving tips I allow a bit of extra time in the steamer so that when pulling the stave down in the form the timber bends like cooked spaghetti.

Although steaming is a slower process I prefer to use steam to dry heat wherever possible.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#23 Post by Hamish » Sat May 17, 2014 1:32 pm

Daryl, I feel your pain. You have the skills and the experience, all we need to get you is some decent osage, and you would have a beauty of a bow.
Hamish.

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Re: Californian style Osage bow, work in progress.

#24 Post by greybeard » Sun May 18, 2014 2:33 pm

Hamish wrote:You have the skills and the experience, all we need to get you is some decent osage, and you would have a beauty of a bow.
Hamish, I am a patient person, eventually some Osage will turn up.

In the meantime I have a heap of Brigalow billets to process and a couple of red ash logs in the drying stages.

Bow stocks are depleted so I need to make another three or four 'recipe' bows.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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