BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

How to make a Bow, a String or a Set of Arrows. Making equipment & tools for use in Traditional Archery and Bowhunting.

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Dennis La Varenne
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BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#1 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:37 pm

Once upon a time in a land far, far away, there was a bloke who took a fancy to bowhunting.

He read up everything on the topic, because he knew absolutely nothing and nobody who did. Mostly, he found articles in the local firearms magazines which pursuit had hitherto been his only hunting interest, and still is, but without the only these days.

The first people who were the forefathers of bowhunting in Australia were blokes of the calibre of Dallas Conway, Bob Doring, Ian Fenton and especially Kev Whiting, the actual founder of Australian Bowhunters’ Association who has effectively been blacklisted from recognition by the very organization which he founded.

There were a few overseas icons as well. From England, the land of origin of our form of archery, there was almost nobody. Roger Ascham wrote the first textbook on archery in English in 1540, and Horace Ford wrote the then definitive textbook on target archery back in the mid-1800s, many of the principles of which are still relevant today. We know about some highly reputed bowmakers and we know there was a very active archery community, but almost none of them seems to have risen to the heights of a national hero in the same vein as those in the US and here. The sad fact is that bowhunting in England has been prohibited for centuries and still is. The very essence of shooting the bow has been lost to them and they have forgotten its purpose.

In the US, there were the Thomson brothers, Art Young and Saxton Pope, Fred Bear, Ben Pearson, Bob Swinehart and the Wilhelm brothers, along with a few others, most of whom made films about their hunting and trick shooting exploits. But none had anything like the reputation and aura of a truly remarkable bowman and bowhunter than Howard Hill.

To this day, his exploits remain the pinnacle of bowhunting and archery achievement. Many have tried to knock him off his pedestal, and all have the questionable motivation of those lesser beings who try to outdo another by undermining them. Nobody has genuinely outshot Howard Hill in the fields of both bowhunting and field archery, although he was never really a serious tournament archer.

I have bought anything I can which relates his life and exploits and read up all I can on his exploits, including the opinions of his rather sad knockers.

One of the things which impressed me for no particular reason were his all-bamboo bows. They fascinated me. I closely examined every picture I could find of them and there were not many outside of Craig Ekin’s book “Howard Hill – the Man and the Legend”, first published in 1982 only a few years before I obtained my first copy.

I had seen quite a few ‘Howard Hill’ bows here in Australia made by the various Howard Hill bowmakers by the mid 1980s. They were all glass bows and mostly made by the Kramers, whose operation was later taken over by Craig Ekin as I understand it.

Even with glass, the bows still had that characteristic stubby lower tip and long lanceolate upper tip much copied these days. The early 1980s bows still had the small leather wedge on the side of the arrow shelf as a sort of assistance to keeping the arrow on the shelf during drawing. The other significant aspect of their design was the fact that the sides of these bows was well rounded, leaving the core material well proud of the glass which helped protect it from splintering if the bow limbs struck something hard.

All those bows were made with the upper limb one inch longer than the lower limb, putting the arrow pass at the shelf only one inch above the geometric centre of the bow which was how bows were routinely made in the pre-compound days. Very few were made with equal length limbs like today.

I have always been a fan of this design of uneven length limbs, a practical stubby lower tip and the protective well rounded sides – all features which hearken back to the wood bow days.

During his all-bamboo bow days, I realised that on studying available pictures of them that he made his bows by gluing parallel laminations of bamboo together to a required thickness, putting some back set which we now refer to as reflex into them. Craig Ekin describes his bowmaking process in some detail on page 66 of his book. Howard could not have put much more than 3 inches of back set into his bows or they would not have fitted into the 6 inch steel pipe which he used to cure his glued up blanks.

Once the blanks were glued up, he just treated them as selfwood bows and tapered them down in the same fashion. This can clearly be seen in the pictures in Craig’s book and the later book by Bob Burton, ‘Howard Hill Collectibles’.

It can also clearly be seen that the bellies of Howard’s bamboo bows were mostly cambered – only slightly closer to the riser block, but by the end of the limbs were just as rounded as an English Longbow. Perhaps that is why he referred to his bows a American semi-longbows, because they were not 6 feet long and they still had cambered bellies. Certainly, for the most part, they were definitely NOT flatbows.

He was clearly pretty old-fashioned in his approach to bowmaking, even for those days in the 1930s and 1940s when the advantages of the flatbow were very well understood following the work of Klopsteg, Hickman and Nagler. But, through his writings and Craig’s book, being at the forefront of bow design was not a serious consideration. He seemed to have done a lot of experimenting with his preferred design to get the best out of it rather than abandon it to a scientifically more highly developed design.

Not a thing wrong with that. It worked and it was a reliable design, albeit in either Craig’s book or his own ‘Hunting the Hard Way’ (I cannot remember which) he says that his favourite bow Grandpa which drew 85lbs had a point on distance of about 55 yards which is less than impressive, but clearly did not phase him in the least. What his bows lacked in performance, was more than made up for by his shooting genius.

The principles established by Klopsteg, Hickman and Nagler which explained what made a bow work had long been incorporated into the manufacture of target flatbows which at 40 - 45lbs draw weight could use a 6 o’clock hold on the gold at 100 yards in the old York round. This is attested in Robert Elmer’s book ‘Target Archery’ and in my repro Ben Pearson catalogue from 1941.

I know from my reproduction 1941 Ben Pearson catalogue that he was producing wood flatbows with up to 17cm of reflex by the same method we call Perry reflexing. Part of his advertising was that these bows were guaranteed not to follow the string. Mostly they were Lemonwood backed Lemonwood or the same from Hickory and the really expensive bows were Hickory backed Osage or Yew. None were made longer than 64 inches for a 28 inch draw unless on special order.

They really knew their stuff back then.

But, I digress. Despite knowing all that, I have long had it as an ambition to build myself a replica of one of Howard’s all-bamboo bows. I wanted to see among other things how well they would perform with their outdated-for-period design compared to similar draw weight flatbows I have made myself.

I must also confess quite unashamedly to rank nostalgia in this. Admire the man, admire his bows.

Back in about 2007 or 2008, I embarked upon a plan. I ordered 4 full length parallel laminations of bamboo from Howard Hill Archery. They were all close to 4.5mm thick – the only lam having variable thickness was the backing lam which had the nodes and exterior rind. All the others were interior lams from just under the rind containing the ‘power’ fibres which are still used in modern bowmaking. The trick was to glue them up.

On one of my annual trips up to Jeff Challacombe’s, we used his gluing air form. He provided a riser block of a pretty dark coloured North Queensland Walnut. The block was shaped in the fashion of a normal glass bow and we glued the lot up using Smooth-On glue and by turning the whole gluing form upside down and putting the air hose under the backing lam so that the pressure would push the blank up into the female half of the form and the hose would conform to the irregular surface of the backing lam.

It ended up with about 32mm of parabolic reflex in the glued up blank. The average thickness of the limbs at this stage was 20mm. The reflex shape accelerates toward the tips as can be seen from the picture. The overall length of the bow blank was 72 inches shown in the following picture. All captions are BELOW the pictures shown.
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1. Full length bow blank.

The following series of pictures (2 - 6) show the blank from the sides and belly of the handle riser block and the thickness taper markings on the sides of the limb at the tip, mid- and inner positions. I commenced marking the thickness taper at 9mm at the tips, increasing at 0.5mm intervals every 75mm.

The blank was marked out on all four sides of the limbs – a process which I always use when marking out my wood bows so the belly surface matches with the back surface. This stratagem gets around the problem of uneven thickness across the width of the limbs which can produce rotational twisting or lateral bending.
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2. Riser block with markouts.
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3. Riser block showing fadeout from belly side view.
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4. Limb taper markings at tip.
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5. Limb taper markings at mid-limb.
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6. Riser block at fadeout showing taper markings.

After the rather tedious but crucial mark-out, it was a simple matter to rasp the limbs to thickness using my trusty Farrier’s rasp. Both sides of the rasp were employed to put some shape into the limbs to bring them to floor tiller stage. Before the tapering, the basic blank was almost impossible to bend using my meagre 54kg of bodyweight.

Based on my previous experience with thickness tapering of flatbows, the taper I put into these limbs should have produced a stave of Herculean draw weight even at 72 inches, but amazingly, this stave was rather spaghetti-ish and limber. I couldn’t believe it. Bamboo is certainly different to average hardwood.

I piked the stave down to 68 inches and things improved somewhat draw weight-wise, but not impressively. Quite frankly, disappointed does not come into it. But, I continued with the project and shaped the bow to the shape depicted in the various pictures in Craig Ekin’s and Bob Burton’s books. The belly was modestly cambered closer to the riser and slowly increasing to half-rounded by about 15 cm from the tips.

The riser block was stepped down and faded into the camber of the limbs producing the characteristic leaf-shape common on Howard’s bows. This shaping of the riser block fadeouts cannot be achieved on a bow with dead flat limbs. Flat limbs will have either a straight-across fade or perhaps a somewhat rounded shape shown in the picture 4. above of the riser block before shaping. Although not at the finished stage, this picture (4) depicts the shape of the fades of a bow with an almost or dead flat belly.
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7. Characteristic shape of Howard Hill riser blocks. Some were less lanceolate and some even had narrow flats dipping down to the limbs, but this is the most common shape.

At the stage when shaping and tillering was completed, it drew just under 30lbs at my 26 inch draw and shot like a dog with 400gn arrows. It also took on nearly 65mm of set. I couldn’t believe how bad it was and was very close to binning it.

Then another idea occurred to me from a previous exercise some years ago at removing string follow in an ELB I owned at the time - heat the limbs and physically bend them into reflex and hold.

The limbs were heated over my kitchen gas stove by passing the limbs over the flame about 75mm above and moving them back and forth over the count of 6 seconds from end to end so heat was not concentrated on any one part of the limb. I did manage to scorch them mildly close to the lower tip but not destructively.

As I passed the limbs back and forth over the heat, a surprising thing occurred which I have never seen before. You could literally see the limbs straightening out and losing most of the string-follow or set. I was not even bending them into reflex. They just straightened themselves out. It was not complete, but it reduced the set to less than an inch. It did not hold however. After a 24 hour cooling period, I rebraced and shot it again, only to have the string follow recur, but not quite as badly – about 50mm.

There was nothing to lose now. I gave it another heat treatment which had to be done quickly. I formed lumps on each end of the bow tips to hold a bowstring. You can see these garden twine lumps in the following pics.
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8. String holder lump formed on the upper tip to hold bow in reflex while cooling.
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9. String holder lump formed on the lower tip to hold bow in reflex while cooling.

When the limbs were almost too hot to the touch I applied a bowstring BACKWARDS and pulled the limbs into 150mm of reflex and let them cool overnight.

Bracing it and shooting it the next day produced much better arrow flight and after shooting drew 35lbs at 26 inches. It still had 40mm of string follow, but after resting, it reduced to 25mm. The nock to nock length of the bow was 68 inches.

I was still unhappy with the draw weight, so the heat treatment was applied again, putting a bit more reflex into it by bracing it backwards again and pulling the string around a 40cm cooking pot as shown in the pictures below.
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10. Pic of pot used to draw heated bow limbs into reflex.
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11. Full length picture of bow held in reflex using 40cm pot.

Actually, the use of the cooking pot did not pull the limbs into much greater reflex than before. It went from 15cm to about only just over 16cm. I think string stretch from the Dacron string I used was the cause.

The overnight cooling period was adhered to and in the middle of the following day, I braced it up and shot it once again with very little improvement at all. It returned to 40mm of set with 25mm remaining after resting.

The next step was to try to increase the draw weight by piking.

Looking through the examples of Howards bamboo bows in Burton’s book, on page 18, there is a picture of one of Howard’s personal bows which was made in his standard style but was only 64 ½ inches long. I was relieved. It meant I could shorten my replica and still be within the length range of bows he made, albeit this one would have been pretty short even for him and his 28 inch draw.

So, next day, I piked the bow to 65 inches nock to nock and the draw weight went up significantly, but happily, the set did not increase at all. The final weight of this bow at my 26 inch draw is 40lbs. And what an improvement in cast that 5lbs made to the flight of my 404 to 420 grain arrows.

I finished the bow with several coats of satin Minwax Wipe-on Poly and used a bit of greyish kangaroo hide I had for a handle wrapping using a small built up wedge as an arrow shelf as depicted in the picture on page 18 of Burton’s book. The handle wrapping in this picture is dark, but most commonly, Howard used grey mule-hide which is reasonably close to the colour of this kangaroo leather.

When applying the grip wrapping, I butted the ends together in the middle of the back of the handle, but it was quite common in Howard’s time to actually skive the ends and overlap them with the overlapped end extending around the grip almost to the offside of the handle. There are a few examples of this method in Burton’s book and many in my old archery catalogues. The direction of the overlap depended upon the handedness of the bow. The top and bottom edges of Howards bows generally were also skived so that there was no step, blending the leather into the bow much more neatly.

As with the pictures of his bows in Burton’s and Craig Ekin’s books, there is no arrow strike plate either which Howard did not apply to his personal bows apparently. The bowstring in the pictures is made from Irish linen kindly supplied by Looseplucker from Ozbow.
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12. Full length picture of finished bow from the back in rested state showing nodes. There is only 25mm of set which increases to 40mm after shooting.
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13. Full length picture of finished bow from the belly. In this picture you can just make out the area of scorching on the outer lower limb to the left of the picture. This is the arrow pass side.
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14. Full length picture of the finished bow in braced position. The bow is very slightly positive tillered. The upper limb is to the right.
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15. Close up picture of the handle detail. Note the lanceolate fadeouts on the riser block, the lack of an arrow strike plate and conventional arrow shelf, and the small wedge acting as an arrow shelf.
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16. Picture of upper tip detail from the back.
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17. Picture of upper tip detail from the belly.
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18. Picture of lower tip detail from the back.
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19. Picture of lower tip detail from the belly clearly showing scorched area.

Since the completion of this bow, at mid-lower limb immediately next to a node, there has developed a 1/4 limb width fret. I have treated this in the conventional Ascham technique of pricking completely around the fret to relieve the compression stress from the harder material above and below the fret from transferring into the actual fret area.

This has always worked well for me with hardwood and Yew bows in the past. Here is a picture of the fret with its treatment.
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20. Picture of fret which developed next to a node at mid-lower limb.

Observations
The most obvious aspect of making an all-bamboo bow was how badly it took a set very early in the building.

I began with a taper of 9mm at the tips, increasing it at the rate of 0.5mm per 75mm which should have produced a very heavy bow. Even now, the limbs look thick enough to be for a bow around 70lbs if it were a hardwood bow, or even a Yew bow. You seem to require a lot of bamboo to make a bow. In future, if I ever get to repeat this exercise, I will know to allow a great deal more thickness in the limbs than I did this time. I do not consider that the cambering of the belly had anything to do with it.

I have a 1930s vintage Yew static recurve here at home backed with clarified calfskin (as they did back in those times) which is 71 inches long and draws 47lbs at 26 inches. The string nocks are barely in line with the back of the handle because of the huge amount of set forced on the inner limb by the static recurves. It would have performed just as well if it had been built as a straight ended bow in my opinion because it would have suffered far less set.

Anyway, this bow is no thicker than my Howard Hill replica and has a similarly cambered belly. But even as a much longer bow (never mind the static recurve tips), it has kept a much higher draw weight than my replica at 6 inches shorter and much quicker by far.

I had obtained some short samples of bamboo lamination offcuts from Craig for bend testing, but it was too short to suspend between two supports and take the increasing weight to measure an elastic limit. It didn’t break. It just bent so far that it dropped between the two supports and took an enormous set pretty early. So, I could not get a sensible reading. Now I can appreciate that I needed much thicker lamination material which would support the weights I was trying to suspend from it. Had I realised that at the time, I may probably have woken up to the idea that an all-bamboo bow was going to need to be very thick.

I was very disappointed at how badly the bow took a big set so early and how little draw weight it yielded for such a bulky limbed bow.

The other thing which surprised me is the way in which with applied heating that the bow reduced its set without me having to apply any kind of reflex bending. As I heated the limbs over the kitchen gas stove, each limb almost literally ‘rose to the occasion’ quite visibly. A very slight reflexing push brought the limbs back to dead straight, but it was not permanent.

On each subsequent occasion of heat treating, the limbs behaved the same way, straightening out like a bloke enticed. But on no occasion did the limbs return back to the amount of reflex put into them. They only ever returned to just short of straight as they had done on the very first occasion of heat treating.

It is my supposition that bamboo must have some kind of elastic memory which, once set, remains that way. It may be tied in with the degree of set first occasioned in the bow at or near the time of its first heat treating and doesn’t change thereafter.

The other thing to my continued astonishment throughout the whole process was that the bow did not delaminate from the repeated heating. When Jeff and I glued it up, we used the modern bowyer’s common choice of glue – Smooth-On. Clearly that stuff must have some serious resistance to heat once cured, because I got the limbs of this bamboo bow hot to the point where you could not grab them and they needed to be touched very gingerly with the fingertips to assess the amount of heat I had applied.

Despite this, the glue did not let go, and that was a bit of a revelation.

If there is one thing above all else I learned from this exercise, it is the fact that bamboo is a different animal to wood and behaves much differently when subjected to stress. When deciding how much to allow for thickness with this bow, I tried to source mechanical data for bamboo. There is very little, and because of the vast number of different sub-species, there is little chance of obtaining anything worthwhile. That is the reason I opted for trying to obtain my own data using bamboo known to be bow-friendly from Craig Ekin at Howard Hill archery.

The most common data seemed to establish that its tensile strength was almost equal to fibre glass, but its compression strength was poor in comparison, reflected in the early stages of this bow.

But clearly, something else happens to it when subjected to heat within a certain range.

Heat seems to harden it against compression which is probably the genesis of the technique of heat tempering which has been well known for centuries in Asia. I cannot say to what degree this tempering process improves its compression resistance compared with an average bow hard wood, but my impression from this exercise is that it is still far less than hardwood, unless perhaps the outer rind of the bamboo is able to be used on the belly side of a bow as well.

Such a technique presents problems of working out the amount of thickness required for a given draw weight and the fact that once glued up, the belly cannot be scraped during tillering to sink the bow. Tapering the core laminations, some width tapering and varying overall length would be all that would be available to the bowyer.

Anyway, I hope this little effort of mine is of some interest and use to members.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#2 Post by bigbob » Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:35 pm

Extremely interesting Dennis, and your observations about bamboo touch base with me. While it is no doubt very resilient it does seem to have the characteristics when unbacked by glass, of a wet noodle.
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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#3 Post by FORRO » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:06 pm

Hi Dennis
Well done old mate, as all ways you put all your skills in to making a bow , as you did with me, with my first self-bow back in 1997.
and I still shoot it today, along with my bamboo glass bows which i make today.
Keith

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#4 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:53 pm

Kind words from both Keith and Bigbob. Have you still got that bow Keith??? Heavens!!! Jeff told me you had got into making your own glass bows.

The bow finished up at 65 inches nock to nock. The thicknesses are pretty massive at 11.5mm at the nocks, 15mm at midlimb and 19mm at the fadeouts. The widths are 12mm at the nocks, 26mm at midlimb and 32mm at the fadeouts.

I think that the only reason that the bow worked out at all was almost entirely due to the heat treating and less to the reflexing, albeit that did help. If I were to repeat the process, I think I would do some very serious cooking of the laminates at very high temperatures before gluing them up. Howard Hill clearly understood that he needed to put some backset into his blanks at glue-up because of the poor compression strength of bamboo - even bow-quality bamboo - in order to hold some decent draw weight. The pictures of his all-bamboo bows are pretty massive in profile, even allowing for his normal high draw weights. Heating the lams right through rather than surface tempering them seems to make a significant difference.

Surprisingly, this bow did not turn out to be as physically light as I thought it would. The very thick limbs have mitigated against this in accordance with the hypothesis developed by Steve Gardner in the chapter entitled "The Mass Principle" and published in Traditional Bowyer's Bible Volume 4. Basically, he surmises that for any natural materials bow of given draw weight and dimensions (width x thickness) there is an optimal mass required to achieve that and it seems to be holding pretty much true for the most part.

In brief, you need a certain mass of material to build a bow, no matter what material the bow is made from, the final mass ends up coming within a fairly small range.

This hypothesis did not ring true with me and still causes me some problems, but there are predictor formulae developed which can work this out and test the final mass of the bow against. It seems to be true.

Would I recommend this process as a working bow? The answer to that is no. Any reasonably dense hardwood with good mechanical properties will produce a better bow with fewer problems. My attempt was from pure and unadulterated sentimentality. Do I like the bow? Now, . . . yes I do. I am rather fond of it. Does it shoot well? Not particularly.

But, I wanted to find out for myself what to expect from an all-bamboo bow such a Howard made for himself, and I think I went some fair way to answering that question.

My continuing question is however, why did he persist with the material? There could not have been any performance advantage in using it, and as soon as Eichholz developed the method of applying fibreglass matting to the back and belly of bows in around 1948, the performance advantage was so great that Howard never went back to his all-bamboo bows. First he applied woven matting to the backs of his bows, and then later he applied the linear matting to the bellies.

My surmise is that with fibreglass backing only, the very weak compression strength of bamboo would have resulted in very great string follow. Facing his bows then with lineal fibreglass matting brought the tension and compression forces into some kind of balance and we now have the Howard Hill style bamboo cored bows which are fairly common and such good performing bows.

Anyway, further shooting of my little bow will show how well the 'treated' bamboo holds up under the compression stress of bending and whether the amount of set it now has is static or worsens.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#5 Post by Len » Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:59 pm

Great article Dennis and lovely looking bow.I found it very interesting.
Hmmmmmmm.............

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#6 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:17 pm

Thank you, Len. Always good to hear from you.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#7 Post by bigbob » Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Interesting stuff isnt it bamboo. Has great tensile strength, used extensively in Asia as scaffolding ,read some where its tensile strength was greater comparably speaking than steel, but very limp and malleable. I made some arrow dowels from off cuts bamboo flooring and while I understand this is a manufactured material of blended bamboo fibres rather than a non violated section of natural bamboo, I could get one of these dowels and put a bend in it with fingers and which would just remain there without any 'spring' in terms of returning to previous axial plane.It seems to be great stuff when sandwiched between glass in a laminate bow but undesirable when compared to some hardwood timbers as a stand alone material.
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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#8 Post by greybeard » Sat Sep 01, 2012 7:07 pm

Dennis,

I have been playing around with bamboo /wood laminated bows for some years and I have found that a bamboo core [unlike timber] needs support on the belly side. The most effective way to achieve this is to use pole bamboo in a similar manner in the way we back a bow.

With regards to heat treating bamboo I could not find any useful information on the internet. My question was to wether heat treatment was only applied to green / air dried bamboo or if could be used on poles that had been processed through an autoclave. I could not find any relevant information on what sort of temperature should be used.

I tempered some bamboo for the back and belly with my heat gun set on 600 Celsius which may have been a little high. The waxy coating started to bubble and was tacky until it cooled. Any loose bamboo fibres were instantly turned to ash.
Crown At Butt And Tip.JPG
Crown At Butt And Tip.JPG (58.8 KiB) Viewed 7417 times
The bow with a bamboo core depicted in the photo was glued up in three stages. The core of three laminations after curing could have been bent by a pre schooler. After the backing bamboo was applied the bow felt it was more in the 50# range. After the belly laminations were applied the draw weight went sky high.
Built In Reflex.JPG
Built In Reflex.JPG (58.84 KiB) Viewed 7417 times
I put a short tiller string on the bow and pulled it back until the tips were in a position to represent a 7” brace height, the scales registered 64#. As you can see the addition of lamination to the belly dramatically increases the draw weight.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#9 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:05 pm

Daryl,

I think you are quite correct about the belly lam. I know of one such bow made that way with a half decent draw weight owned by a mate in Japan. His is a semi-recurve bow.

The tricky bit with applying the rinded belly lam is working out the core thickness so that you come close to your final draw weight rather than always get a surprise. The only way I could think up of achieving that would be to have constant thicknesses of back and belly lam for all bows and vary the core material just as you do with glass bows. But, the Japanese did do this quite capably with their Yumi bows, so it is quite do-able on a regular basis.

However, my bow was an excercise in reproducing a close replica of one of Howard Hill's bows the way he made them from sentimental reasons and also to see how they would perform and hold up to shooting stresses.

In Bob Burton's book mentioned above, he always refers to Howard's pre-glass bamboo bows as string follow bows - never once mentioning how much string follow (suggesting that he did not want to because it was very large perhaps??? and may have reflected unfavourably on Howard's bows) whereas, he always gave the size of the setback in Howard's glass backed and faced bows.

Mine seems to be holding a rested 25mm of set increasing to 40mm just unbraced, but it is only just 40lbs @ 26 inches.

Heaven only knows how much set would result if the bow was half to double the draw weight considering the widths of Howard's bows were similar to mine and the lengths rarely went much beyond 68 inches (mine is 65 inches). Their limb thickness would increase significantly with increased draw weight and consequently, the compression loading on the belly which was a less efficient convex shape and unprotected by a hard rind surface such as you have used.

My own view would be that the amount of set would have been very large indeed and his bows would have needed to be quite heavy in order to obtain reasonable speeds.
Dennis La Varénne

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#10 Post by greybeard » Mon Sep 03, 2012 7:19 pm

Dennis,

You are correct with having a constant edge profile for the back and belly bamboo. Draw weight of the bow is then governed by the core laminations.

You may already be aware of the following information but I will post it in the hope it may be of benefit to other members.

Incidentally, if you cut the bamboo to the limb plan of the bow you will create a natural taper when flattening the inner surface. Because of this natural taper you can run parallel core laminations. I take calliper readings at six inch intervals.

Wider limbed bows will require a bigger diameter pole to minimise the height of the crown. The bigger the diameter of the pole the closer the node spacing [as little as six to seven inches] and this can lead to stiff spots.
As a rule the smaller diameter is from the top of the pole and the larger from the base of the pole. Select poles that are that are as close to round as possible, oval poles can cause problems.

The link illustrates the grouping of pole diameters.

http://www.bamboo-oz.com.au/pricepoles.html

The greater the node spacing the better, I try not to go below twelve inches. Ideally the nodes on the belly lamination should fall midway between the nodes on the backing bamboo which helps to prevent stiff spots.
Do not place nodes near the fadeout area as stiff spots are created.

This style of bow responds well to reflexing and can be glued up in stages on an adjustable form.

Unfortunately I do not have the answers on how to overcome the problems experienced with the all bamboo Howard Hill style bow.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#11 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:12 am

Daryl,

Thanks for that info. The nodes on my project do not align through the thickness of the bow which principle for which I understood anyway, but you are quite correct. With regard to the problems of the all-bamboo HH style of bow, I don't think that there are any solutions or improvements. It is simply a less than optimum design as we know today, but, in Howard's day was probably seen as quite advanced.

The only thing I would try next time is as I think I opined above that I would build a very large amount of reflex into the blank at the glue-up stage just as we do with glass bows,, but much more - even as much as 15cm, relying on the Perry reflex principle of bending the limbs into tension on the belly side and compression on the back so that the act of drawing is in fact de-stressing the limbs for part of the draw and not loading up the belly with compression until perhaps the latter half of the draw.

That may help minimise the tendency of bamboo to take the very large set that mine did at such an early stage. But, that is also an educated guess on my part too. It could be quite wrong in practice.

I also just had a nice email from Craig Ekin of Howard Hill Archery to whom I sent the manuscript of my post to check for factual errors, and he was quite complimentary on the article which is gratifying.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#12 Post by Hamish » Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:06 pm

Hi Dennis, That's a wonderful experiment. Its a really beautiful, elegant design.
Hamish.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#13 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sat Sep 08, 2012 3:30 pm

Hamish,

Thank you for the nice comments. I do like the design too, but in practical terms, it is let down by the materials quite badly in my opinion expressed above. If there is a way to temper the bamboo to be far more compression resistant than it is, the design would perform much better. As it is, any reasonable hardwood belly would do better by far. I thought perhaps that being bamboo, some performance gain could be be had by virtue of the low mass of the material, but unfortunately, the sheer bulk of the limbs resulted in a bow which is no lighter than a comparative hardwood bow.

Bamboo core material in a modern fibreglass backed and faced bow has many performance advantages dues to its low mass because it is not under compression. In such a long bow, that function is assumed by the fibreglass belly with the bamboo acting as a low mass, low shear spacer material between. Clearly, it excels as a backing material provided it is matched with a belly wood equal in compression resistance compared to the tension resistance of the bamboo backing, but is dismal in resisting compression.

My bow is reasonably pretty, but has very mediocre performance and I do not think that with continued shooting, the present amount of string follow will hold. I believe it will deteriorate significantly. I hope not, but I must be practical in its assessment.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#14 Post by Hamish » Sun Sep 09, 2012 11:26 am

John Schulz used to make bows to Howards design, "Naturals", that you have no doubt seen in old issues of Trad Bowhunter. The stringfollow was always marketed as a positive, the way Howard preferred them.
Although not a Hill method, it might be viable to use edged grain laminations of boo, carefully stripped of rind and nodes, all the rest taken off the inner side. Heat treated then glued into planks. I think that was another method they used in the 1930's,( Elmer Target Archery from memory). A hell of a lot of work, though.
Might also be worth picking the brain of Jaap Kopperdrayer, Yumi bows, I think he also makes replicas of the American G I bow.
Hamish.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#15 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:35 pm

Hamish,

Thank you for the information, and I appreciate your offering it, but quite frankly, for purely practical reasons, I am not particularly disposed to going down the bamboo trail. I can do much better much more easily using commonly available hardwoods. If bamboo were the only bowmaking resource to hand or I was interested in making museum standard replicas of historical bows, perhaps I would.

In Bob Burton's book on Howard Hill Collectibles, he mentions only one of Howard's bows where he used one lamination made from what today is referred to vertical flooring. Burton also offered the comment that this bow had a particularly heavy draw weight for its limb thickness compared to another replica of that particular bow made without the vertically laminated lamination. Burton intimates performance advantages from this stuff which his exposure to a single bow do not really justify in my opinion, when he was exposed to a large number of Howard's other bows for comparison.

If there was an advantage in using this kind of lamination, it seems that that was missed by Howard because there is no evidence in the other bows examined by Burton that he persisted with its use.

However, quite a few people have used that kind of lamination in glass bows here and overseas with unremarkable performance advantage compared to normal bamboo laminations. The vertical stuff would have the signal advantage though of consistency of performance which comes with laminated material which is often lacking in natural stuff which can vary hugely in performance.

Mine was just an attempt with a single bow to replicate a common design built and used by Howard as closely as information on his preparation and building process would allow me. The bow is unremarkable enough that the method is not worth following up when I can do far better with far less effort using commonly available hardwoods.

Bamboo can be remarkable stuff in limited circumstances, but for the average bowyer, but on a practical level, that small and difficult to replicate circumstance does not justify the effort in my opinion when easier to work materials are more commonly to hand.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#16 Post by Hamish » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:27 am

Hi Dennis, I understand your feelings about bamboo, you have obviously put a hell of a big effort in getting the most out of that stave.
My line of thought for the vertical laminations, was more a craftsman approach vs mass production. For example the commercial vert' lam flooring looks like it would have a lot less powerfibres, than carefully selected and prepared splits, as in cane fly rod making. Although powerfibres are probably more important for tension, I suspect they are denser and more likely to handle compression better than spongier inner fibres.

Like you said it would be much easier and give more predictable results to use a nice piece of hardwood with proven compression resistance, for the belly.
I'm sure there is plenty more to learn about bamboo, there isn't really much published in English about bamboo and bowmaking. Japanese masters and their few western pupils seem to guard their methods pretty closely.
Hamish.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#17 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:52 pm

Hamish,

The stuff I used for my project came from Howard Hill Archery who uses the power fibre stuff just under the outer rind. Even so, it just isn't up to the compression load. The very few reasonably well-functioning bamboo bows I have seen have always had a lamination which included the outer rind on the belly as well as the back.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#18 Post by stickslinger » Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:48 pm

Hey Dennis,

Great build. Nice looking bow!

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#19 Post by wishsong » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:03 pm

Dennis , a fine fine looking bow and subject matter that is quite close to me heart ! Well done !

I order my bows straight laid or with a touch of string follow built in ... IMHO its just a tad smoother at the draw and there is less "recoil" at the shot . I actually have of Mr Schulz "Naturals " turning up at my house soon ... its a right hander and 65# plus but I am intersetd to see how it differs from my Miller , Miller being a student of Schulz .

Forgive my ignorance but do you think the outcome would differ greatly if perhaps the bow was laminated with hardwood or yew and then backed with 'boo, not just i terms of the amount of set but its speed ? I only ask as I have yet to see any really quantifiable difference in speed from my reflexed bows to my String Follows through a chrony ... ] I see that Miller offers both styles and his all 'boo seems to be popular ... mind you no one would suggest they are barn burners ...

I think that bow of your needs to go and whack some rabbits and foxes ... and we need pics of it in action .

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#20 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:29 pm

wishsong and stickslinger,

Thank you both for your kind comments.

As I have gone into above, I do not consider that bamboo has much going for it as limb material in this particular design. So far as wishsong's question about using hardwood cores veneered with bamboo, my considered opinion is that it seems to be a lot of trouble to go to for cosmetic outcomes. The outer bamboo veneer would be so thin that it would contribute nothing to performance, and if it is thick enough, especially on the belly, then you will run into the inevitable problems of its poor compression resistance as I did. Hardwood core laminations at the level of the neutral plane DO NOT keep bows straight contrary to some myths. I have had a few now and they were abysmal. Everything depends on the kind of wood you have at the surface on the belly and back. What is in between is merely spacer material.

Basic bowyer's principle: The greater the distance between the back and belly surfaces (ie, thickness) - the greater the draw weight and the greater the bending loads on those surfaces. That's it in a nutshell.

My best suggestion is that you dump the bamboo thing altogether (except as a backing material in some cases) and just stick to woods with proven compression resistance for the belly. Japanes Yumis are made with bamboo backs and bellies and I have a friend who has a short semi-recurve all-bamboo bow. Both these bows have bamboo with the rind and nodes on the surface of back and belly. Retaining the outer rind seems to be the only way to increase the compression resistance of bamboo in a bow, and you need to be very careful in your choice of the specie of bamboo because they are not all bow-standard.

Without wishing to offend, I have a contrary belief about so-called 'string follow bows'.

There is not the slightest performance advantage in the design which cannot be beaten easily with a reflexed bow of lighter draw weight which is easier to draw, including the hand shock phenomenon. I have never built or possessed a bow with string follow which at equal draw weight and arrow mass shot as fast as a reflexed bow. If I had, I would have patented the design.

We self-bowyers do every thing we can to avoid string follow because we know from years of building and testing that there is NO benefit. We know because we can always be guaranteed to get higher arrow speeds from straight or reflexed bows and without unnecessary handshock if we distribute the limb mass properly. It is not difficult and the methods have been around for very many years now.

If you read any of the old pre-fibreglass texts about building bows, ALL of them had nothing good to say about string follow. In those times, it was an inevitable evil which some skilled bowyers were able to minimise or even obviate with putting 'back-set' which we now call reflex into their limbs. As an example, in my 1941 Ben Pearson catalogue, he made a great fuss of his laminated target bows which were guaranteed NEVER to follow the string. Depending upon price, they were 60 - 66inch straight-ended flatbows of hickory backed hickory or lemonwood and the more expensive bows were hickory backed Yew or Osage. (They were never referred to as longbows back then. Longbow was reserved only for the English pattern bow.) They were glued into an even reflex starting at the handle which brought the tips to 5 or 6 inches forward of the handle.

About the same time, Fred Bear (1947 - 1955 catalogues) was building similar length flatbows with static recurved tips to try to keep the tips well ahead of the handle and minimise the effects of string follow and York Archery (1942 catalogue) were building bows similar to Pearson's flatbows but without the reflex, as well as longbows of the English pattern which Pearson and Bear did not make. Nobody in the days of wood bows saw the slightest benefit in string follow and they knew far more about the problem that we do today.

But today, for some strange reason, many archers, particularly in the US, are jumping to to the string follow bandwagon. I would very much like to see a string follow bow of equal make and design which could outshoot a similarly built bow of reflexed design. But they would need to be a like-like comparison, and not two completely mismatched bows of unequal draw weight, arrow mass and construction design.

I cannot speak about smoothness because I have never been able to detect such a quality in any bow of the many hundreds I have used in my 32+ years in archery (most of them building bows) which I could not attribute to variations of draw weight. I attribute smoothness only to what I can see on a scale where I can work out graph showing force-draw curve. If the rate of increase in draw weight is consistent throughout the draw length range, then the bow is 'smooth'. If the draw weight suddenly increases in its rate of increase, then it is NOT smooth and has the quality of 'stacking'. Neither of those phenomena are easily detectible by humans despite many who claim they can in my opinion.

I started noticing this at ABA shoots years ago as a bow checker when people would ask you to do a check on their bows over the draw length to see what was happening because they believed that their bows either stacked or were not 'smooth' whatever that was. In most cases by far, people who said that their bows were either not smooth or stacked were not able to demonstrate this on the scale in any way. That evidence did not matter to them. They were fixated on the perception of having a bow which either stacked or was not particularly smooth and went away still believing this despite the visible evidence against the notion.

Additionally, the simple furnishing of a non-stretch synthetic bowstring will almost completely obviate handshock and transfer far more of the bow's limb-stored energy to the arrow so that little or no residual limb energy remains as limb vibration (handshock) after the arrow has left the string. It is a simple matter of bow design and efficiency.

I consider the perceived benefits of the string follow bow to be misguided and unprovable in any objective manner, but obviously, if you can produce quantifiable data contradicting what I have just posted, I would very much like to have a look at it. I have plenty of them here at home. I like shooting them very much, but they are nothing special and I am working on building an adjustable gluing form where I can put 6 or more inches of reflex into medium length flatbows as Pearson did way back then.

I have only one very recently built 64inch flatbow which still retains some slight reflex and at 44lbs at 26 inches, it easily outshoots all of my other string follow bows of even heavier draw weight and comes close to some of my modern Howard Hill glass-bamboo bows below 50 lbs which quite amazed me. It is a Hickory backed Victorian Eastern Red Ironbark flatbow with wide limbs and narrow tips - the key to ridding a bow of hand-shock. It started life with 32mm of reflex and now holds only 5mm of reflex when rested.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#21 Post by wishsong » Tue Sep 11, 2012 8:56 am

Dennis , not offneded and I agree to a certain extent re the whole string follow idea but also have found that I don't lose any real performance when traded for the qualities that I like about the string follow ... maybe a topic for another day as I don't want to derail the thread ...

Maybe you should jump down over the border and we'll go and chase some bunnies about with the bow and see how it goes ...

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#22 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:05 pm

Are you in Victoria then? I used to live in Melbourne. I am now in Tocumwal.

Re the string follow thing, if it is what you like, there is nothing wrong with that at all. That is the only justification anyone needs.

My rant is more to do with some of the outrageous claims made for it which can't be measured.

I compare bows of different draw weights (which necessarily shoot arrows of different masses) across a level field by dividing the arrow speed into the arrow mass which gives a result of how many mass units (in grains) that bow pushes for each unit of arrow speed. I prefer that method of comparison rather than measure simple velocity between bows which doesn't tell the whole story of which bow is more efficient at casting an arrow. The greater the mass/unit of speed, the more efficient the bow is and those numbers can be extrapolated for greater or lower draw weights to allow a fair comparison using some simple maths based on percentages. The method is a bit simplistic because there other factors such as hysteresis within limbs which need to be taken into account, but it gives a pretty good idea of how a bow is performing.

The surprising thing is that most trad bows within a class (ie, straight-end wood bows, straight-end glass bows, glassed reflexed bows, glassed recurves, etc.) seem to operate within a surprisingly small window of efficiency within their design class. Interesting that.

I get really annoyed with myself, because I shoot my bows through my Chrony and sit down and do lots of maths with the results, but I have not been storing the raw data as I should have. Most of the time I am recollecting which is poor science indeed. I have got to stop that and start writing it all down and storing it along with detailed measurements of the tested bows and their materials. I have wasted so much data over all these years.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#23 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Tue Sep 11, 2012 6:48 pm

Having said all I have said above about my little project and its outcome, for those of you who had questions about making all-bamboo bows, could I direct you to Keith Keddie's website. He is an Australian bowyer who has been specialising in bamboo bows ever since I first met him at the old Maryborough Longbow Musters. Keith's URL is http://www.joshuabows.com.au
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#24 Post by looseplucker » Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:50 pm

While still a relative apprentice I have played around a bit with bamboo - both the poles and the boards. In my experience bamboo from a pole that is squared off either needs some hardwood in the core as well - on the belly - and be strong in compression to counter the extreme tension of the bamboo back - or must have pole on the back and the belly. IMHO the latter. Also, on any analysis string follow is counter-intuitive to strength, stored energy, efficiency and performance.
Are you well informed or is your news limited?

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#25 Post by looseplucker » Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:52 pm

And I just noted the string....you dont spare the wax!

Dennis - can you bring an example of your bowstrings to Benalla - I think I might be overtwisting mine. How many plies did you do.

for my 48# bow I generally do 6 loops x 7, then twist to 3 sub plies and then those three sub-plies to the final string. Not as smooth as yours.


Do you want some more linen?
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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#26 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Thu Sep 20, 2012 5:08 pm

John,

I will bring the whole bow. The string is a simple 2-skein string of 10 strands per skein from memory. The body of the string has almost NO twist and heavily waxed of course. Maybe that is what gives it the smooth appearance.

The reason I can keep the body of the string so straight is that it has a loop for the upper nock and a bowyer's hitch for the lower. Having a double loop string relies for adjustment by twisting. Adjustment for a bowyer's hitch string is achieved merely by shortening the lower loop without the need for any twisting in the body. You can achieve this in a double looped string by careful making - taking great care about where you actually place the loops so that you have exactly the correct distance between the loops to brace your bow correctly.

In the older books on bowyery, it seemed to have been a pretty consistent requirement in the natural fibre days NOT to have too much twist in the body of the string which was considered to be the source of abrasion and breakage across the string by a sort of cross-sawing. With the string body laid largely straight and parallel as possible, this cross-sawing effect was minimised.

I have never tested this idea to destruction but it makes some sense, and nothing seems to have been lost with the string laid that way.

I seem to recall reading that strings made with a minimum of twisting are far less prone to stretching during the draw and power stroke.

In support of this idea, one of the FITA archers at my old club once told me that back in the Kevlar days when they replaced their bowstrings after about 1000 shots, that they got a bit more life from a string by flemishing the middle part of the Kevlar string under the serving to introduce some more 'give' in an area where breakage was the commonest.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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looseplucker
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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#27 Post by looseplucker » Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:26 pm

This meeting in Benalla is shaping up to have Mrs Looseplucker's lips disappearing and one or both of us getting a telling off!
Are you well informed or is your news limited?

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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#28 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:27 pm

Oh, dear!!! Should I be afraid???? Maybe brevity is the secret . . . or postponement perhaps??.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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looseplucker
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Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#29 Post by looseplucker » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:28 am

Nah - we always stop for at least 1/2 hour. And William would love to see any bows you bring - he is going through a real ELB phase at the moment. So would Charlotte, who is getting a 'Merida' style bow made (girly movie called 'Brave')

And anyhow, I propose to extend the privileges and immunities of "The Shed' to our discussion.
Are you well informed or is your news limited?

Dennis La Varenne
Posts: 1776
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 10:56 pm
Location: Tocumwal, NSW. Australia

Re: BUILDING A REPLICA HOWARD HILL ALL-BAMBOO LIMBED BOW

#30 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:45 am

Phew! I was going to ask if postponement were the better part of valour where angry womenfolk are concerned.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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