First bow - with some blues - Updated 29 Jan

[rodlonq]

Well I finally got around to making a longbow after watching this forum for nearly 2 years.

The bow has 3 vertical bamboo tapers and one kwila taper, 16" kwila riser and Bearpaw clear glass. It was cooked with Binghams heat strips for 2 hours @ 65C and 65 psi hose pressures. The blank looked fine out of the mould and I left it overnight before shaping limbs. After sizing the limbs it pulled 52#@28" with 3/16" tiller.

Bow#1 in the form.jpg (132.58 KiB) Viewed 3596 times

Next I put on the tip and riser overlays and cooked them by placing floodlamps next to the glued components. Be careful doing this, when I went to check on the thing after about an hour I noticed the riser section was very hot. After measurement with an infrared thermal gun it was nearly 95C and I went OH NO, I have stuffed my first bow. But it seems to have held together OK.

Bow #1 Tip Overlay.jpg (97.77 KiB) Viewed 3596 times

Bow #1 Riser Overlay.jpg (137.66 KiB) Viewed 3596 times

Next I set about shaping the shelf and handle. This is fun and didnt take too long to rough it down with a 7" sander/polisher and 60 grit disc. A bit for shaping with a half round rasp and bastard file and it looks like it could be a good thing after finishing with finer sandpaper.

Time to put a new string on and have another measure and weigh. OH NO AGAIN - somewhere along the way I got it upside down and the positive tiller became negative 1/8" (despite various markings on the bottom limb ). I think I will have to buy carton for that mistake, luckily there is only me and me to drink it, unless some locals would like to have a beer with me and point and laugh . Weight reduced to 50#@28" so I was at least happy with that. I reckon get it to full draw on the tiller tree and see how it looks. At full draw the difference reduced to around 1/16" negative tiller (measuring from the string line to the end of the level in the pic below).

Bow #1 On the tiller tree.jpg (152.69 KiB) Viewed 3596 times

Is it safe and what is the most suitable method to get the tiller back to neutral or a bit positive? It has a bit of hand shock and makes a twang but that could be just the 12 strand fast flight string with no padding. Next I will make a padded loop string and install some silencers. The bow still needs fine sanding and some sort of finish but I wanted to hear some thoughts on the tiller process.

The last pic shows a bit of leather work I made to go with the bow over the Christmas break.

Bow #1 with accesories.jpg (164.25 KiB) Viewed 3596 times

Cheers......... Rod

[Nephew]

Good on ya, Rod. Great effort mate, I envy you. Bloody nice leather work, too.

[Bill]

As Moreton says; a truely great effort, a very nice job, as I say a job done well.
I also like the leather work, perhaps one day you will show us how it's done.

[ivorycollector]

Congrats and welldone Rod. Very nice.

[GrahameA]

Congratulations

IMHO It would just sand the limb edge i.e. trap them first and them sand them square to get the poundage down on that limb as you head for equal tiller.

Daryl will give much better advice - I am only a lowly apprentice. I would also be happy to live with a bit of noise, etc.

It is the best laminated bow you have ever built.

[dawallace45]

Well done looks good

David

[longbow steve]

Hi Rod, looks great . Re the tiller, you can round edges, trap like Grahame suggests or even sand the glass. Good effort. Steve

[Gringa Bows]

The bow looks great for your first attemp,if i want to weaken a limb to get the tiller right i trap the belly using a sanding block,and give it the same amount of strokes each side,but ive never had to weaken a limb more than a 8th of an inch. after talking to Jeff, i'm going to try trapping the back next time .

[UPTHETOP]

Rod looks good mate. Its all a learning process thats for shore. What length did you settle for in the end.
How did the glue up go, it shore is an experience the first time isnt it.

Will have to call around again soon for a shot. Throw some silences on the string and it should get rid of a little shock and noise.
Congratulations again mate the first of many to come.

Cheers Wayno

[Gringa Bows]

And also i think flatlayed kick a bit more than reflexed bows

[Stickbow Hunter]

Time to put a new string on and have another measure and weigh. OH NO AGAIN - somewhere along the way I got it upside down and the positive tiller became negative 1/8" (despite various markings on the bottom limb ).

I don't think you will do that again mate.

Going by your photo you can see the bottom limb is bending too much. IMO that is what will be causing the hand shock and most likely the twang. In relation to correcting your tiller; my preference would be to do it in a manner that doesn't make one limb look different to the other (more rounded etc). To acheive this you could do as Steve suggests and sand the surface of the glass but another option and possibly the best option, again IMO, would be to shorten your lower limb by an inch by cutting in a new string nock an inch further in which would mean redoing your bottom tip and overlays of course. This would probably give you approx 1/16" positive tiller.

Anyway mate you have still done well for your first bow - congrats!!!

Jeff

[stringnstik]

Mate, great effort, great bow and leather work but by far what i want most is your shed! :)and maybe throw the IR camera in for good measure

keep it up , drink the mistakes away and the next one will be top shelf.

[rodlonq]

Thank you all for your encouragement and advice. I haven't decided yet which way I will go but I am sure one of the options will be successful when I make up my mind.

Jeff, I like the idea of shortening the bottom limb but I may struggle with any extra draw weight, it would be more useful to me to shed a couple of pounds actually. I do hope to develop proper form and more strength on this first bow, and then make up another perhaps a bit heavier in the near future. I won't be too upset if it is a bit ugly, as long as it is safe to use it will be a good training tool. I didn't really expect it to survive at full draw after overheating it while doing the overlays, so anything is a bonus at this point.

Rod, a reflex form is already in the making. I couldn't decide how to determine the shape of the reflex so I reckon make a straight laid bow first and then clamp it to the reflex form and bend the limbs forward so the shape of the flexed straight limb gives the "natural" curve to use for the reflex, trace this onto the new form. It is only a theory but the best one I could think of for now.

Wayno, length is 68" NTN. The glue up was progressing real well until a mini-cyclone hit Aitkenvale and turned the power off for about 10 minutes. I had to shut the doors on the shed to keep the rain off the equipment and it was almost dark. I was really starting to panic that all the materials would be stuffed because i had glue on all the surfaces and was about to start laying up. It turned out to be just under an hour from mixing glue to starting to apply pressure to the hose (felt like only about 20 minutes). I felt it took a bit long and the glue spills were starting to get very stiff so I was worried about that (it was a very hot afternoon). The heat strip setup is very easy to use however and I monitored the temperature under the top (belly) pressure strip the whole time and it stayed relatively consistent. I have made a new string with 4 strands of dacron padding in each loop and put on sheepskin silencers in the same style you see beaver fur used.

Stringsnstik, I am rather lucky that I have access to 18 x 12 m shed space where I normally make my bread and butter. It is super handy to be able to knock off work and spend a couple of hours working on bow building equipment. I am going to set up gear for making shafts next, probably even before I get the reflex bow form made. I got onto some spruce pine with nice tight growth rings to have a crack at.

Cheers...... Rod

[KellyG]

That is a good looking bow. I love that leather work.
question what is trap the belly on a bow?
Nice work,
Kelly

[perry]

KellyG Trapping is when you narrow the back of the bow so that it is narrower than the belly, or vice versa. Its a good technique for reducing draw weight and tillering. I doubt it offers any mechanical benefits with modern firbreglass flat bows but if you "trap" a Selfbows limbs from Back to Belly [ being widest ] the increase ratio of surface on the belly is better able to handle compression.

rodlong, I like your Quiver and Armguard - good stuff. Hold the Bow as you would to shoot it, draw it slightly, does the Bow rock in your hand. Which ever way the bow Rocks indicates a too stiff limb. A properly tillered bow will not rock, it will pull in a straight line through your normal bow grip and down your bow arm.

I could get into where the arrow passes in relation to the centre of the Bow and your grip position dictating whether a Bow needs to be tillered positive or negative but I don't feel like a robust discussion today. Best to do a search for a Glenn Newell / Dean Torges article about said subject. At the least it will broaden your knowledge of the Art of Tillering.

regards Jacko

[greybeard]

Hi Rod,

Well done for your first attempt.

To keep the limb profiles as close as possible it is probably better to sand the glass [Elmont Bingham suggests this in his DVD].
Sand the back and belly glass evenly along the full length of the limb.
You may have to back off the pressure slightly as you get towards the narrowing tips.
You could start around the 120 grit mark and as you get closer to tiller progressively work through the finer grades.
Brace the bow as often as needed during this process so you can monitor the tiller.
Finishing with a 400 grit paper should give you a suitable surface for a clear finish.
Sand the other limb with the same finishing grit so the clear finish is even.

As Jeff suggested you can shorten the offending limb but you have only one chance to get it right.

Daryl.

[rodlonq]

Thanks Kelly, I will be keeping an eye on the thread of yours with the selfbow stave you are working on. I hope to progress to that once I have made some composite bows. Sorry I couldnt answer the question on trapping properly because I didn't know the answer for sure.

Hi Perry, Is "trapping" bowyers slang for making the limb trapezoidal in cross section?? Thanks for your advice also. UPTHETOP showed me one of his bows a while ago that had a fair degree of trapping on the limbs. It doesnt look bad or anything, in fact the colours of the core become more highlighted.

Hi Daryl, Thanks for the tips. I have seen the sanding of the glass on the Bingham's video but I wanted to be sure I asked the question to the forum because there is a lot more information on here than in one video. I have been considering Jeff's option of shortening the limb but I am basically a coward and I would like the bow to draw a bit lighter than heavier . How much draw weight do you reckon it will pick up by shortening the bottom limb an inch (Jeff?)? Would you just grind off the tip overlay and do it again once the new string groove has been started? I am so unsure, I reckon sanding the glass on the top limb to weaken it may be easier, however I do realise I would gain a lot more experience from one of the more difficult options. What a big chicken!

I have tried to search for the answers in past threads but it is so easy to get side tracked and spend all night not finding the info I am looking for, too many interesting threads to read .

Cheers.... Rod

[Stickbow Hunter]

How much draw weight do you reckon it will pick up by shortening the bottom limb an inch (Jeff?)? Would you just grind off the tip overlay and do it again once the new string groove has been started?

I would think you would gain two - three pound max. When you have done that you could just sand the four corners of the glass a little to get a bit more positive tiller in the top limb and drop a pound or so in weight in the process. If you then sand both limbs a bit more you could get it back to the same weight without much difficulty.

If you wanted to loose weight so it is under the present 52# just sanding the glass on the flat surface would possibly acheive that easier.

Regardless of which method you use you will learn from it.

All the best with it mate.

Jeff

[rodlonq]

I put the first coat of clear on today and was happy to see the colours richen up a lot. The whole thing looked very plain and dull after all that rubbing down with sandpaper. I weighed it again after working the tiller down to +1/16 and it now pulls 47#@28". It also has taken about 3/8" of follow after many restringing and weighing trials. I hope it does not take too much more follow because the weight feels ideal now.

I would like to take it out to the Townsville District bowhunters park on Sunday and if I'm lucky I may find someone to coach me on how to shoot it (thanks Wayno). After staring through the window of a compound on and off for the last 30 years it seems quirky to have your arrow pointing so far to the left!

Cheers, Rod

[Stickbow Hunter]

Glad to hear you've got it shootin' mate. By what you wrote I take it you took the sanding the glass option? Besides getting the tiller right did it lessen the hand shock?

Jeff

[rodlonq]

Actually I haven't shot it since I finished sanding it Jeff. I didn't want to rub my grubby paws over it any more than I had to while tillering, to avoid soaking the handle with oily sweat, so I don't know yet. You wouldn't believe how hot and humid it is up here since the cloud cover cleared up, and my shed is not well ventilated at the best of times. At least I am managing to shed a few pounds gained over Christmas . I am busting to fire off a few shots after the third coat of clear has cured though.

Cheers.... Rod

[Stickbow Hunter]

Ok mate, let us know how she shoots. It has been a humid day down here today as well but I will take that over the rain.

Jeff

[rodlonq]

Hello Everyone,

I have finally finished of bow No. 1 and am looking forward to tuning up tomorrow morning and having a few shots at the TDB bowhunters round . It finished off at 47#@28" and 1/16" positive tiller. I took a few more pics to show off the trimmings I added today after the last coat of clear dried (put on last night).

The first picture shows the specs and my first attempt at scroll sawing an inlay. The centre is gidgee laid into Qld ash with clear glass on top and kwila underneath. You can see where I tried to cheat and tidy up the outline with a fine maker pen, it bled during the glue up .

Pic 1.jpg (146.21 KiB) Viewed 3286 times

The next pic shows the string nock in better detail.

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The next pic shows the leather grip and arrow plate. The nocking point on the string is red Dacron.

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The next pic is the bottom limb tip protector from the same piece of leather as the grip.

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The next pic is the whole lot together, strung up and ready to go. The string is 12 strand Fastflight with 4 strands of red Dacron padding in the loops. The silencers are aussie sheepskin. All homebrew.

Pic 5.jpg (188.03 KiB) Viewed 3286 times

The last pic is my first homebrew string keeper.

Pic 6.jpg (195.93 KiB) Viewed 3286 times

My new avatar pic shows the quiver and arm guard I made before the bow. I must say it has been a fairly intense but satisfying learning process. My next challenge is homebrew arrows and then a reflex form for bow #2. Thank you to all who have posted buildalongs and other technical details on this forum, it has been by far my most valued resource.

Cheers..... Rod

[Guy Layton]

Well done Rod.... It looks great....!

you must be proud...

Cheers Guy

[rodlonq]

Thanks Guy,

I am happy with the end result even though there are several things I will do differently next time. I reckon I've earned a cold beer this evening or maybe even two .

Cheers, Rod

[Stickbow Hunter]

Congrats mate; well done and enjoy shooting it tomorrow!!!

Jeff

[Gringa Bows]

Very very nice mate,the bow the leather work and the inlay,all look tops.Hope it shoots well for ya. too

[excelpoint]

Thats nice work mate. Really like the leather work.

[rodlonq]

Hey Rod,

It shot bloody terrible with the arrows I had for my horsebow , coundna hit the a#$e end of the shed from 10 feet. Wayno loaned me some much stiffer shafts and I am now a much happier camper . Cant move on with bow making until I have made a set of decent arrows for it, the groups are getting tighter and I don't want to bust up Wayno's arras. Thanks Wayno, my faith has been restored. Been shooting 60 - 100 shots during lunch break each day and the practice helps greatly, but got a couple of weeks away work so will probably be back to square one again.

Thanks Exelpoint, Glad you liked the leatherwork mate. I reckon it took me longer to make the quiver than the bow to be honest, and the raw materials are dearer, tools not near so expensive as woodworking gear though.

Cheers..... Rod

[Gringa Bows]

Glad your getting it sorted out Rod