Bidwillii Build-along.

How to make a Bow, a String or a Set of Arrows. Making equipment & tools for use in Traditional Archery and Bowhunting.

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Bidwillii Build-along.

#1 Post by greybeard » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:55 pm

Austromyrtus bidwillii; pronounced: oss-trah-MERT-uss bid-WILL-ee-eye

The growth rings are very close together and this may account for the fact that you can violate the growth rings without affecting the integrity of the back of the bow [based on a previous experience].
*
1 Grain Compilation.jpg
1 Grain Compilation.jpg (90.72 KiB) Viewed 7182 times
*
The billet did not lend itself to a straight forward limb plan as pin knots were in the way and the billet displayed a propeller twist.
*
2 Marking Center Line.JPG
2 Marking Center Line.JPG (46.07 KiB) Viewed 7182 times
*
An approximate plan was laid out on the billet which can be modified during the shaping process
*
3 Shaping Comp.jpg
3 Shaping Comp.jpg (69.77 KiB) Viewed 7182 times
*
A progress report will follow as soon as possible.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
jindydiver
Posts: 1333
Joined: Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:06 pm
Location: ACT

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#2 Post by jindydiver » Fri Jan 01, 2021 6:14 am

With all the twists and bends it looks like it will have some character when your done.
Mick


Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power.

Abraham Lincoln

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#3 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:13 pm

It should end up with some great looking character Daryl.

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#4 Post by greybeard » Fri Jan 01, 2021 2:29 pm

"In the synonym, Austromyrtus is from two Latin words, australis, south, myrtus, the myrtle tree"

Today I reduced the overall width and thickness of the stave. Spoke shaving the bulk of the bark enabled me to establish a new centre line and modify the limb plan. Leaving some bark on allows me to re draw the limb plan without marring the back of the finished bow.
The remaining bark will be removed during the tillering.

Fortunately the propeller twist only affected about six or so inches from each limb tip.
To remove the propeller twist took a bit of thinking out how to create a jacket to deliver steam to a small specified area. The problem was resolved by using some plastic film, electricians tape and a hand held steam cleaner.
*
4 Steaming Out Propellor Twist.JPG
4 Steaming Out Propellor Twist.JPG (149.51 KiB) Viewed 7154 times
*
A slat clamped to the tip of the bow and sliding weight allowed more pressure to be applied as the wood became more pliable. Once the desired tip rotation was achieved the steam source was switched off, the slat held in place until the wood set.
Having worked out the system the other tip was done in about twenty minutes.

The hump in the left hand could be a bit problematic and present thoughts are to make a custom steam tunnel and flatten this hump as much as possible and steam reflex into the last eighteen inches to the tips.
*
5 Plan And Profile.jpg
5 Plan And Profile.jpg (64.79 KiB) Viewed 7154 times
*
The knot in the right hand side limb may be problematic and require extra treatment.
*
6 Problem Knot Comp.jpg
6 Problem Knot Comp.jpg (77.91 KiB) Viewed 7152 times
*
Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#5 Post by greybeard » Sat Jan 02, 2021 12:01 pm

Working the belly of the stave has been a slow process, unlike a straight stave or one where each limb profile is similar.

With this particular stave each limb requires slightly different approach to bring them into balance.
*
7 Tiller Comp.jpg
7 Tiller Comp.jpg (50.73 KiB) Viewed 7129 times
*
At present the mass of the limb on the left outweighs the one on the right. I need to remove mass from the ’hump’ area but being careful not to create a hinge.

Without bringing the limbs into equilibrium it will be virtually impossible to synchronize them and the finished bow would display nasty habits on loosing an arrow.

The next step will be to remove the remaining bark and see if some adjustment can be done on the back of the bow.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#6 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:36 pm

It makes for an interesting build. One of my Osage bows I made was very similar to that with the one limb having a big hump in it. I spent a lot of time on it and it turned out to be a great bow. I look forward to more progress photos.

Jeff

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#7 Post by greybeard » Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:13 pm

Stickbow Hunter wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 1:36 pm One of my Osage bows I made was very similar to that with the one limb having a big hump in it. I spent a lot of time on it and it turned out to be a great bow. I look forward to more progress photos. Jeff
Jeff, as you are aware these twisty and knotty billets can be challenging but rewarding with a successful outcome. Those that don’t come up to our expectations can teach us valuable lessons.

I made this Red Ash bow many years back and kicked a bit on loosing an arrow but I was a novice back then.
*
9 Red Ash Snake Bow.JPG
9 Red Ash Snake Bow.JPG (18.61 KiB) Viewed 7104 times
*
The remaining bark has been removed and the back of the stave was lightly sanded with a rubber sanding block.

Additional work was carried out on the belly to try to reduce the effects around the hump in the left hand side limb but have I gone too far. The bow is just shy of a six inch brace height.
*
8 Brace Height.JPG
8 Brace Height.JPG (36.85 KiB) Viewed 7104 times
*
The mind is now stuck at what to do next.

Thoughts centre on a flexible steam pocket secured around the hump. With the limb supported on blocks either side of the hump a clamp could be used to apply downward pressure on the hump, the pressure being gradually increased as the wood becomes more pliable.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#8 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:21 am

greybeard wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:13 pmJeff, as you are aware these twisty and knotty billets can be challenging but rewarding with a successful outcome. Those that don’t come up to our expectations can teach us valuable lessons.
You are certainly right about that. I am just a novice when it comes to self bows so much to learn.
greybeard wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 3:13 pm The mind is now stuck at what to do next.

Thoughts centre on a flexible steam pocket secured around the hump. With the limb supported on blocks either side of the hump a clamp could be used to apply downward pressure on the hump, the pressure being gradually increased as the wood becomes more pliable.
Looking at that left limb you may need to flatten both humps a little and even do something with the tip section as well. One thing at a time and see how it goes. :biggrin:

Jeff

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#9 Post by greybeard » Mon Jan 04, 2021 2:45 pm

I was amazed at how easily the hump was flattened out and the overall simplicity of the method employed.

Some time was lost through refilling the steamer but the overall steaming took about forty minutes. To date this has proved the best method for selective wet heat bending.
*
10 Steaming Hump.JPG
10 Steaming Hump.JPG (126.48 KiB) Viewed 7075 times
*
Because the steam is under pressure the steam jacket needs to be vented. Notice the wisp of steam around the jacket.

When there was a good head of steam clamp pressure was gradually increased until the required deflection was attained. The steam source was then removed and the limb allowed to cool down.
*
11 Steamed Hump Comp.jpg
11 Steamed Hump Comp.jpg (65.61 KiB) Viewed 7075 times
*
I am happy with the result so adjusting the right hand side limb will be the next challenge.

To play it safe and allow the wood to thoroughly dry I will not load up the limb until tomorrow.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#10 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:42 pm

That worked so well Daryl. I like the hand held steamer. I have done similar but just with boiling water in a pot and enclosing the particular place where I want to bend the limb and the top of the pot with alfoil.

Jeff

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#11 Post by greybeard » Thu Jan 07, 2021 4:54 pm

I was not completely happy with the modification to the left limb so more work was carried out.

I scraped and sanded the affected belly section and reduced the high spot on the back of the stave. Fortunately this wood can handle growth ring violation with no ill effects.

This section was given a second steaming and I am happy with the results.
*
12 Steamed Section.JPG
12 Steamed Section.JPG (45.25 KiB) Viewed 7023 times
*
13 Reworked Limb.JPG
13 Reworked Limb.JPG (32.28 KiB) Viewed 7023 times
*
Next task will be to modify the other limb and then move on to the tillering process.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#12 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Thu Jan 07, 2021 5:19 pm

Looking good.

Jeff

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#13 Post by greybeard » Sun Jan 10, 2021 4:32 pm

Although tedious some progress has been made. The left hand side limb is getting closer to where it needs to be but working around the hinge is slow work.

In the early stages of roughing out the stave I was a bit heavy handed in this spot and now I am paying the price. Fortunately there appears to be ample timber in the stave as pulling it down to brace height requires some effort.

Some steaming was done on the right hand side limb to balance it more with the left hand limb but it still requires a fair amount of tillering.
*
14 Hinge Compilation.jpg
14 Hinge Compilation.jpg (62.52 KiB) Viewed 6972 times
*
During the various steaming processes I inadvertently let some lateral movement come in towards the tips. They moved just over ¼” off centre so this will need to be corrected before going to the short string.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#14 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun Jan 10, 2021 7:59 pm

Good to see the progress Daryl. It often takes lot of time to get things right; slow and easy does it.

Jeff

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#15 Post by greybeard » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:14 pm

Yesterday turned out to be quite productive.

Aligning the limbs proved to be a lot easier than anticipated once I had come up with the plan of attack.

With the handle of the bow firmly held in a vice an L shaped wooden block was clamped against the limb at the pre determined pivot point.

A wooden stop to line up with the tip of the limb was clamped to the side of the bench. A suitably sized block to determine lateral movement of the limb was placed against the stop.
*
15 Tip Align Comp.jpg
15 Tip Align Comp.jpg (221.98 KiB) Viewed 6937 times
*
The body of the speed clamp was supported by a block of wood to keep the clamp parallel to the bench top.

During the steaming process the clamp is taken up in stages until the tip of the bow touches the block. One final squeeze, not to hard given and the steam held for a few more minutes.

The steam source was removed and when the steam jacket was removed dry heat was applied to remove excess moisture from the limb. Once dry the clamp was removed and the bow set to one side.

This morning I prepared the limb tips for some overlays. As the tips were a bit on the thin side overlays of black wattle will allow me to file decent string grooves and not affect the integrity of the tips.
*
16 Tip Overlays Being Glued.JPG
16 Tip Overlays Being Glued.JPG (132.52 KiB) Viewed 6937 times
*
I will shape the tips and file the string grooves tomorrow and brace the bow with the correct length string.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#16 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:07 pm

Coming along well.

Jeff

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#17 Post by greybeard » Sun Jan 17, 2021 4:40 pm

I disregarded my own advice and spent too much time using the long string.
It was giving me false readings with the knot area, approximately six inches in length in the left hand limb, this area refuses to bend.
Consequently the outer limb section is too soft, I may have ruined the bow.

The bow can go on the rack while I try to resolve the issue.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#18 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:58 am

These things happen Daryl as you know. Thinking about it may give you an idea on how to go forward but it may be no good; wait and see. :biggrin:

Jeff

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#19 Post by greybeard » Mon Jan 18, 2021 3:19 pm

Hi Jeff,

The bow is braced to 5 ½”.
A few short draws indicated that there is a fair amount of draw weight left in the bow.
*
17 Knot Areas.jpg
17 Knot Areas.jpg (40.64 KiB) Viewed 6827 times
*
If I can resolve the issues with the knotty sections and re-tiller the limbs, steaming recurve into the tips may help compensate for loss of draw weight.

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
Stickbow Hunter
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 11637
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2003 8:33 pm
Location: Maryborough Queensland

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#20 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Tue Jan 19, 2021 9:48 am

Those knots are causing a problem for you. Will be interesting to see if they will bend ok. If they do then the recurving of the tips should be a worthwhile option.

Jeff

User avatar
bigbob
Posts: 4098
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: sunshine coast

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#21 Post by bigbob » Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:11 pm

Wonder how this is going , whether you progressed any more with it.Yep long time since I have been on here. Caught up in my own little world,. Great to see you are still building Daryl.Hope you are well .
nil illigitimo in desperandum carborundum
razorbows.com

User avatar
greybeard
Supporter
Supporter
Posts: 2992
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2006 9:11 am
Location: Logan City QLD

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#22 Post by greybeard » Wed Apr 14, 2021 1:39 pm

Hi Bob,

Unfortunately I scrapped the project as there was no way I could remedy the effects of the hard stiff knot area. As many bowyers have experienced there are times when the bow / stave reaches a point that it can not be saved.

Clear glass out of Bingham’s is getting expensive and allowing for the exchange rate, higher postage charges and bank fees it would land at about $48.00 per strip.
There are cheaper alternatives out of Europe but unfortunately the glass can be streaky. Although this does not affect the integrity of the bow customers are under the impression that it is faulty.

Have you been making any more bows?

Daryl.
"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

“If a cluttered desk is a sign of a cluttered mind, of what, then, is an empty desk a sign?” [Einstein]

I am old enough to make my own decisions....Just not young enough to remember what I decided!....

User avatar
bigbob
Posts: 4098
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:55 pm
Location: sunshine coast

Re: Bidwillii Build-along.

#23 Post by bigbob » Wed Apr 14, 2021 3:54 pm

That is a pity Daryl. I know it happens with self bows at times but often a lot of work takes place before it gets to the point of no return. I have used Bearpaw glass exclusively for a number of years and can vouch for its clarity. Only inherent problem with it is spine values seem to change from roll to roll. this has been the consensus of many bowyers not merely myself. I will post a few shots of the most recent bow I have built, from numerous bows in past few years.It will be one of my last as changed personal circumstances mean I will have to curtail my work. hope you dont think I am hijacking your thread.
IMG_0898.JPG
IMG_0898.JPG (124.87 KiB) Viewed 5684 times
IMG_0897.JPG
IMG_0897.JPG (110.42 KiB) Viewed 5684 times
IMG_0896.JPG
IMG_0896.JPG (99.6 KiB) Viewed 5684 times
IMG_0895.JPG
IMG_0895.JPG (100.42 KiB) Viewed 5684 times
nil illigitimo in desperandum carborundum
razorbows.com

Post Reply