2 wing, twisted foot shafts.... to complete arrow.

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Buford
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2 wing, twisted foot shafts.... to complete arrow.

#1 Post by Buford » Sat May 07, 2005 1:55 pm

Added 20 June*

I have moved this here to crop it down to the bare essentials.
Cheers Buford

--------------------------------------------------------------------




wrc.555 wrote:
Yes, PO cedar. i use that combination because they are close in colour.
I might stain one or the other in this batch though so the difference shows up better in the pics.

buford

decided to make half a doz with some of the brush box i got yesterday, instead of staining. I will start a new topic with some progress pics.
Ok, As mentioned, I'm using PO Cedar (cause thats what I have :) ) for the main shaft and brush Box for the footings.

This is only the way I make them, it is not the only way to make them.

The next 4 pics are going from the scrap bits of brush box to footings ready for glueing........
Attachments
end result ready for splicing.
end result ready for splicing.
footings.jpg (43.92 KiB) Viewed 13431 times
footings2.jpg
footings2.jpg (37.06 KiB) Viewed 13432 times
running them through the bandsaw 3/4's of the length......
running them through the bandsaw 3/4's of the length......
bandsaw2.jpg (34.44 KiB) Viewed 13426 times
cutting down to 12mm x 12mm billets
cutting down to 12mm x 12mm billets
bandsaw.jpg (31.73 KiB) Viewed 13426 times
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#2 Post by Buford » Sat May 07, 2005 2:08 pm

The above footings are 200mm long with a cut 150mm down the centre. This only leaves 50mm of shaft after the end of the splice, If you want more just make 'em longer. :wink:

next is to grind the last 150mm of the main shaft down to a flat point the same width as your bandsaw blade........
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tapered splice.jpg
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#3 Post by Buford » Sat May 07, 2005 2:16 pm

once the footings and shafts have been done its time to put'em together. :wink:

I place a clamp just below the cut in the footing to prevent splitting, glue either side of the main shaft and ram it in! :D
If she doesn't wanna go down :) all the way, a few taps with a mallet should get it there. But not too hard with the hammer eh Cam? :lol:

Then I tightly wrap the whole join with electrical tape. Aussie coloured green and gold tape is a must, otherwise the arrow wont work in Australia! :lol:
...leave for a minimum 24hrs.
Attachments
clamp just below the end of the cut
clamp just below the end of the cut
clamped foot.jpg (25.77 KiB) Viewed 13341 times
glued up footings.jpg
glued up footings.jpg (34.85 KiB) Viewed 13418 times
glued up footings2.jpg
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Re: hardwood nock

#4 Post by Buford » Sat May 07, 2005 9:37 pm

archangel wrote:Buford

Great build-along. I like the contrast between the two woods, they should look fantastic stained. Do you plane the spliced billet into an octagon as the first stage in rounding the shaft, and how do you proceed from there?
Mate, all will be revealed. :wink: Glue needs 24hours to cure, so when that is done i will continue the posts and pics. :)
Short answer.... yes i will be using a plane to get the footings to 8 sides before rounding. :wink:

Watch this space.....
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#5 Post by CameronPotter » Sun May 08, 2005 9:23 am

Thanks for this thread Buford, it should be good.

My footings have about 30mm overhang after the 150mm split.

I have my last four glueing up right now - each with 5 clamps on it...

Mind you, after shooting at the range, I shot some thick POCs, some 8mm Tas Oak and some aluminium shafts.

It was amazed at the difference. This has lead me to think that maybe I should consider using some light wood and foot it. Maybe celery top pine?

Cam

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#6 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Sun May 08, 2005 10:44 am

Cam,

If you are going to make your own wood shafts may I suggest that you use Oregon rather than the Celery Top pine. I have found that the Celery Top can be quite brittle. Oregon on the other hand is usually just a tad heavier than POC of the same diameter but is stronger.

Most times it is easy to get good straight grained stuff which is what you want for making good shafts. It is good to work and can be hand planed easily. It makes excellent arra shafts and the other good thing is it is often readily available from demolition places as it was used a lot in buildings.

A good percentage of the target arrows from yesteryear were made from Oregon by the way. It is still popular with trad shooters today for both target and hunting arras.

Jeff

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#7 Post by Buford » Sun May 08, 2005 12:49 pm

here's a couple of handy hints for the above steps, probably should have put them in sooner. :roll:

1st pic: when tapping the footing and shaft together, make sure it is well supported and resting on the floor between your feet. You cant really tell from this pic but i am holding the shaft between my knees so when i tap the footing the shaft doesn't balloon out and splinter.


2nd pic. I purposely cut this foot slightly off centre to show how it becomes 'bent' at the footing when you insert the main shaft. If the cut in the foot isn't right down the middle, its near impossible to get a straight footing without one wing being thicker than the other after its finnished. :wink:
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offset cut.jpg
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tapping it home.jpg
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#8 Post by Buford » Sun May 08, 2005 12:53 pm

if anyone has any suggestions on how any of this could be done better, i'm all ears. :wink:
As I said before, this is just the way I do it. I didn't write the book on footed shafts! :lol:
Most of what i know (or lack thereof), had just been picked up by picking brains. :D :wink:

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#9 Post by Buford » Sun May 08, 2005 6:24 pm

shafts unwrapped, glue dried.......um........ :|

i'm bored can you tell? :lol: :lol:
might get time tomorrow arvo to plane/ sand them down.
more to come.............
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#10 Post by CameronPotter » Sun May 08, 2005 7:20 pm

Hey Buford,

Nice looking shafts.

What glue did you use?

I was using epoxy and one of my footings did not glue properly. When I took the clamps off I heard a cracking noise and the footing split off from the shaft. Bugger. Maybe I starved the joint?

As for oregon, I will keep that in mind. I am going to try to find a very light wood if possible as I would ike to make that kind of target arrow. Of course, balsa wood might be a bit weak :wink: :lol: :wink:

Cam

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#11 Post by Buford » Mon May 09, 2005 10:32 am

mate, i just use the trusty old white wood glue from the local hardware shop. PVA i think? never had a joint let go yet. :wink:
Stong bond, dries clear, waterproof, sandable and the dried glue has a small anount of elasticity to it. It doesn't set rock hard like some epoxies.

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#12 Post by Buford » Mon May 09, 2005 2:29 pm

ok, I only had half an hour to quickly do this next bit. :)

Next step is to start the rounding process by hand plane and disk sander (if needed).

1st pic is taking each corner off the footing. then planing it into eighths to achieve an octagonal shape. if some of your footing is not perfectly straight, now is the only chance to correct it by planing down one side just a little further than the other. Hold the arrow up and sight it down from the nock end to the footing to see if there is any uneveness. You will see the foot "point" crooked if it is off centre.
i don't need to cause i did it right the first time. :P "Ah, waiter! Fig jam on toast please!" :lol:

2nd pic is just halfway through the arrows, just a before and after type dealie. :wink:

3rd pic is the whole half dozen planed down and ready for sanding round, which I will have to do tomorrow. :) Ooooo, I know. the suspense is killin' ya ain't it! :lol:
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planing in progress.jpg
planing in progress.jpg (39.16 KiB) Viewed 13222 times
planed shafts.jpg
planed shafts.jpg (42.21 KiB) Viewed 13223 times
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#13 Post by Buford » Wed May 11, 2005 7:04 pm

I got a bit of time this arvo and have done some more. :wink:

After planing down to almost round in previous step, next i take my precision tool (aka, bit o' wood wif a hole in it!) and some fabric sandpaper to sand down to the desired shaft thickness.
The 2 holes in the sanding block are both bigger than 11/32. the first is about 10-12mm, just to get the shaft spinning reasonably smooth. the second is a 3/8 hole which i find once it has the sanding cloth in it as well, gives an almost perfect 11/32 shaft. :wink:

You simply clamp it around the arrow and move it along the shaft slowly and smoothly being careful not to apply too much force to avoid burning the wood and as it sands down you will find the hinged sanding block has fully closed/ clamped shot and the shaft spins relatively freely.
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sanding down to 11 32.jpg
sanding down to 11 32.jpg (41.27 KiB) Viewed 13161 times
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#14 Post by Buford » Wed May 11, 2005 7:08 pm

you cant really tell in the above pic, but i use a saftey device so the shaft doesn't suddenly grip and twist / splinter on me when spinning at 2000 rpm in the drill :D
It's simply a short length of shaft that gets inserted into the drill chuck, a length of rubber tubing and the arrow fitted into the open end.
The theroy is that the rubber tube will let go long before the shaft can twist and shatter. (which is not very fun! :x )
It also allows a bit of flexability. :wink:
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#15 Post by Mick Smith » Wed May 11, 2005 7:21 pm

Matt,

The hinged sanding guide is a stroke of genius. Was that your idea?
There's no doubt about you, you've always got a surprise up your sleeve.
You seem to have access to lots of expensive tools there mate. Makes my meager collection of rusty hand tools look even more inadequate than my skills at using them.

Are you going to show us, step by step, right though the process right up to completion of the finished arrow? I'd like that because I'm sure you've got even more surprises up your sleeve to share with us.

Thanks mate. :wink:

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#16 Post by Buford » Wed May 11, 2005 9:55 pm

:shock:
um........... surprises, yeah. :shock:

Ok. i confess.......... i got nuthin!! :lol: :lol: :P

Yeah mate, i can keep going right to finished arrow if you like. :wink:
The cresting/ finishing and fletching methods i use aren't that different to Jeff's instructions on the Lore & Legends section on the Ozbow home page. A couple of minor changes, but essentially the same. Why fix it when it ain't broke? :wink:

The hinged sanding block i, unfortunately, cannot claim as my own :( . pitty, cause it makes life heaps easier. :wink:
I first saw it at a demo on how to make 4 wing foot shafts at last years hunter valley shoot.

Most of my tools i have had for a while. I used to make the odd piece of furniture for friends and family. Had tools are nice and traditional but it takes longer and I just don't have the time I would like to spend on making stuff.
All up, it I have probably spent about 3-4 hours (not including glue curing time) just to get to a doz finished shafts.

cheers
buford
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#17 Post by Buford » Wed May 11, 2005 10:01 pm

here is a pic of the finnished product. It hasn't been lacquered yet so the timber will look a little darker, but apart from that......

Cam,

Tomorrow I take a pic of that 'twisted' foot thingie I was talking about. :wink:
I made half of these with a little twist to show ya. :D

Cheers
Buford
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#18 Post by Buford » Thu May 12, 2005 12:04 pm

awe shucks, thanks guys. :D
the splices that I inadequately tried to explain are probably the four footed shafts you mentioned.I'd really like to see the shafts with twisted footings. Looking forward to seein em!
Ah, now i see. :wink:

the twist wasn't as dramatic as I had hoped for. :? I'm guessing it's because of the brush box timber being so heavy and dense? When I have done them in the past with other hardwoods such as Tas Oak they twist up real easy, almost 90 degrees. But in these pics its hard to notice more than 20 degrees. :(
I promse for the next ones i do, i will use something else that works better. maybe a bit of rosegum?

anyway :roll: if you can pick it up in these pics great, if not, sorry..... next time. :wink: :D

buford
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#19 Post by CameronPotter » Thu May 12, 2005 12:29 pm

Very nice! I am still struggling to think of how you could do that...

:?

Unless it is that you taper the twist onto the shaft?

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#20 Post by Buford » Thu May 12, 2005 12:38 pm

nope. :D

anyone?
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#21 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Thu May 12, 2005 1:39 pm

Steam them?

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#22 Post by yeoman » Thu May 12, 2005 1:46 pm

Cut the footing on a diagonal, keeping in perspective the absolutism of substantiated affiliations? :?

Any clues?

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#23 Post by Buford » Thu May 12, 2005 2:27 pm

yeoman wrote:Cut the footing on a diagonal, keeping in perspective the absolutism of substantiated affiliations? :?

Dave
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#24 Post by Buford » Thu May 12, 2005 2:36 pm

Once again, I cannot lay claim to comming up with this (dang!)

The answer is heat, but not from steam. :wink:

I Use the hinged sanding block and a piece of sanding cloth that is old and clogged up with sawdust.

The sanding cloth will no longer remove material, but instead, will just cause frictional heat in the shaft. (see where i'm going with this?) :D
Once the shaft has been heated to a certain point (which i'm discovering is alot higher in brush box :P ) just before the timber burns it will obtain a certain amount of pliability (spelling?) and once this is achieved, while the shaft is still spinning, i simply apply more preasure to the very end of it and it slowly and gently starts to twist. :wink: :D you will more than likely burn the timber when you get to this point, so i always do it where the point taper is going and you will never know.

It is very easy to apply too much preasure and have the join seperate though, so if you kiddies out there try it, be careful. :P :wink:

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#25 Post by CameronPotter » Thu May 12, 2005 3:11 pm

I assume that steam would work just as well then...

Also, I gather that when you say you just do the end bit where it would be tapered, you meant in order to twist it... The whole section has to be heated to get the wood ready for twisting in the first place?

This also, would only work with glues that resist heat well...

Finally, if you do this BEFORE the final sanding, you could probably get the burn marks out.

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#26 Post by Buford » Thu May 12, 2005 5:01 pm

CameronPotter wrote:I assume that steam would work just as well then...

Also, I gather that when you say you just do the end bit where it would be tapered, you meant in order to twist it... The whole section has to be heated to get the wood ready for twisting in the first place?
Sorry. yes, in order to twist, the whole section needs to be heated. Then I "grab" the taper end to actually do the twisting. :wink:
I have never tried steam. Mainly because this method is so simple and easy to do while your sanding, why go to the trouble of using steam? Also, I would be a little hesitant about putting moisture back into the timber.

With regards to twisting before sanding down..... I cannot say if this would work the same as I have never tried it. Off the top of my head though, you would need to heat the shaft in another way,(maybe a heat gun?) if not while sanding, to achieve this, and as I mentioned above, it's just so easy to do while everything is set up to sand. You don't need any other tools/ equipment and its a good use for old sanding cloth that would otherwise be thrown out. :wink:
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twisted footings

#27 Post by archangel » Thu May 12, 2005 9:56 pm

Buford,

I discovered the same trick when I was trying laminated bamboo shafts (with hardwood veneer running full length). Whle sanding with the drill, I held the sandpaper too hard and the same thing happened. The glue was not quite cured and I ended up with a twist up the middle of the shaft at almost 90 degrees. I tried this on some oregon shafts with 2-wing footings and one or two came apart at the glue line. I never followed it up but I like the look of yours - must try it again. Nice woods, thanks for the photo shoot.

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#28 Post by Buford » Fri May 13, 2005 12:07 pm

yep, thats how most things are discovered...... by accident! :D

Re: the glue, when I first saw this being done, i was advised to be careful not to put too much heat into the shaft, too quickly. It needs to be done reasonably slowly else the result is the glue liquifying.

I think Cam, in and earlier post, nutted it when he said about making sure the glue is suitable. Obviously, any glue that dries hard or brittle is not going to react well to twisting. :wink:

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#29 Post by Buford » Fri May 13, 2005 6:26 pm

Cam/ all,
This is the glue i'm using.
Says it's good to 110 degrees C.
Which is probably why I haven't had any trouble with it yet. :lol:

cheers
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#30 Post by Buford » Sat May 14, 2005 11:40 am

....was having a bit of a play with one shaft that was spare to see how much twist i could get... :twisted:

got about double the others but the timber has started to discolour and the footing is gettin' a little thin on the edges! :D
Glue still intact though! :lol:
Better not shoot this one Erron. :wink:

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