Bow Weight and Multi-Users

[Edwarddgrey]

Guys/Gals,

Was wanting to ask a question regarding bow weight...I am wanting to buy a bow for myself and my fiancee which we both can use. I am hoping to get something about 45# at 30 inches and was thinking perhaps with my fiancee's short 26 inch draw the weight drop from the 30 inch to the 26 inch would be enough for her to confortably use the same bow as myself....now in theory this seems to work logically to me...however if I could get confirmation or other opinions it would be brilliant....

If I am right there should be a weight drop roughly of 5 pounds per inch taking a 45 pounder down to 25 pounds...am I right?...

[Stickbow Hunter]

Depending on type of bow, but I would say you would only loose more like 2 -2.5 pounds per inch.

Jeff

[Edwarddgrey]

Jeff thanks for the reply....its a reflex/deflex type longbow....2.5 pounds isnt much...wow I thought it was more than that...

[Len]

My elb's seem to average between 2-3 lbs per inch. The thing is, your theory should work but a bow designed for a 30" draw may not have great performance at 26". But at the end of the day she should still be able to shoot it OK though with different arrows to yours.

[danceswithdingoes]

if you bought a 25# 70" bow, you would shoot it at 30# and she at 20#....45# to her would be around 38# and is too much for a beginner. A better alternative would be to buy a cheap agulla or Winstar 25" handle and universal long limbs (70") in your weight range and a set of universal shorts in you gf's weight range (66")

[Edwarddgrey]

Ahh....lack of performance was what I was afraid of....maybe it wasnt such a great idea...

danceswithdingoes - I was thinking of getting a nice custom reflex-deflex bow for her (and myself when I wanted to shoot lower poundage). The big win on this thought was the possibility of avoiding buying 2 pricey bows.

Len - Thanks for the tip...Unfortunately if the performance is compromised it may not be a good idea after-all. I guess Im back to paying $2000! Owch.

So a 30 inch bow wont just be a lesser poundage at 26 inches but will also be less likely to perform...hmmm tricky...

[jape]

I am no expert but after I bought my Chekmate Longhorn I found it much easier to handle consistently than a longbow. The longbow I have stacks quickly and loses weight quickly so you have to be very consistent, the r/d design of the Longhorn doesn't work like that.

Importantly, my draw varies a lot due to a back injury whereby sometimes I have to alter my stance, draw and style in order to shoot at all. It works very well from 26" to 30" and accommodates either a canted or upright style. This may be because of the reflexed riser. I also find I adjust to it and the changed form very quickly, just a few shots, and it is good for instinctive 'point and shoot' also.

Have a look at it and see if anyone near you has one you could try out, I know a few people here have them or have had them. It is also very good looking and well priced. It is r/d with a reflexed riser and shoots like it is at least 5# to 10# lighter than it is, smooth and hard. I think it would do the job you want.
http://www.recurves.com/Longhorn_Flatbow.htm

[Edwarddgrey]

Jape,

Thanks for the post mate, sounds like a great bow...there must be something in these chek-mate bows as so many on this forum swear by them...

It certainly has a beaut form....elegant and simple...I like.

So to sum up...you think a bow drawn alot less length may not lose-out on the performance as suggested by Len...?

[jape]

It is always going to lose performance, but that is part of what you are talking about, a bow that can be used by someone not so strong - and that naturally means less performance. I am sure that this bow loses less performance relatively and I know it is useable and smooth over the range of draw you will have between the two of you. I can only say what I have experienced but the reviews on this particular bow style seem to support my observations. The maker suggests it is the reflex handle style that is forgiving here. Others can explain why that is better than I, of that I am sure!

[bsrecurve]

it really depends on what she can handle mate.
i wouldn't buy a bow of any given poundage for myself (let alone someone else) if i didn't know i'd be able to handle it comfortably, or at least work up to it without too much hassle.
first i'd be sure of what weight is ideal for her before making a bow-buying decision.
also - depending on how keen she is i'd be more inclined to get her a bow like the samik verna. they are relatively cheap, and great little deflex/reflex bows for the money IMO.
personally i think it's a big leap buying a top of the line bow for any beginner.
has she done much shooting herself, and if so - how keen is she?


also - i think all this talk of performance for a beginner getting into (i assume target) shooting is mostly wasted breath.
i doubt she'll be looking to get passthroughs on big boars, so as long as the arrows stick into the target and she has fun with her fiancee - who gives a ****?

[Steven J]

Edward,

Did you not buy one of my bows through Wildwood? According to my records it was a Wedge Tail about 39lb @ 28" in draw weight. Serial Number W0004. Reading from the draw force curve for this bow, it draws 45lb at 30" and 36lb at 26". 36lb may be a little on the heavy side for your fiancee but it should be shootable if she works up to it. I can send you a graph showing the draw force curve so you can know with certainty the draw weight at each inch if you would like.

I might open up a can of worms here, but it seems that you already have the bow you are after. Why not shoot that bow and buy your fiancee her own bow?

Steve

[Edwarddgrey]

Thank you jape, bsrecurve, and Steven J...all are great replies...

I guess a good point to make here is that she isnt a beginner as such but has been shooting with me since the beginning of the year consistantly... she wouldnt be competition quality yet she isnt half bad either! She is pretty keen however the pain factor has presented a big barrier

Steven J - I do still have the bow you made me however I have considered it for her and have had her have a bit of a shoot...poundage isnt a problem however the handle type is...she has a double/jointed thumb which is proving to be a bit of a problem causing her pain whilst shooting as it locks into an uncomfortable position. I was hoping to buy a new bow (reflex/deflex) so as to get a riser/handle which is more recurve like, as she seems to have no problem with these...I probably would have got you to make her a bow if this wasnt the issue (as far as my research goes it seems you dont have other designs in handles avaliable....I may be wrong here....)

bsrecurve - I did actually look at the Verna's and the reports on them seem to be pretty positive...I will have to check out the handles a little more to make sure there is a good grip for her. (see above re: double-joint)

Has anyone else had issues with a double joint or heard of a problem like this before?...what did they opt to do about it?

[Stickbow Hunter]

I was hoping to buy a new bow (reflex/deflex) so as to get a riser/handle which is more recurve like,

Edward,

I think you are actually meaning deflex/reflex. The Longhorn bow Jape has is reflex/deflex in design.

Jeff

[Steven J]

Edward,

I agree that the handle makes the bow. The limb design matters little if it is not comfortable in your hand. The bow made for you had a dished grip. A locator grip may me more comfortable, however a recurve bow or a hybrid like the Longhorn with its the fully rounded grip would probably be better still. Maybe a bow tillered to allow a strong palm / broken wrist into the bow might also take away some of the problems?

Why not buy one of the cheaper take down target recurves? They are sold under many brand names. If you are target shooting, ABA or 3D they are great. They are not dear and perform well for the money. Limbs can be changed if she wants to go up in draw weight at a later stage. If she finds that the handle does not fit, it is easier to sell of one of these bows than a specialist custom made bow as there is always a beginner at a club wanting to buy one.

I still don't understand why you want a dual purpose bow when you already have a bow made to your specifications. Why can't she have her bow that suits her particular hand and you have yours? It maybe that you find that your Wedge Tail doesn't suit you anymore - thats fine I can accept that. But, If your fiancee wants to be involved in your passion, treat that like gold and buy her the equipment that will allow her to succede so that in 25 years time you are still shooting together. Saving a few hundred dollars now might just mean that you only make it to one or two shoots a year later on down the track when you are married and have the pressure of children and mortgages.

Steve

[Steven J]

Jeff,

You are right. You just won't let this one slide will you

Steve

[Stickbow Hunter]

That's me Steve. Opposites are opposites, they can never be the same thing.

Jeff

[Edwarddgrey]

Jeff....couldnt help yourself there could you...I had a sneaking impression you might just make a mention of the reflex/deflex issue....I guess I took that risk....

Steven J - Very valid point there, the reason I persued the two user option was based on the fact that the bow was going to be a really nice custom bow and by doing it that way at least if it didnt work out with the double joint pain at least I could then use the bow rather than sell it...I dont mind spending the money however having just bought a house Im in savings mode. I also live out of town and have a rough time getting to any clubs so trying other bows from other people isnt really an option...

I really dont like the cheap recurves...but I see the practicality of it. I have had this option suggested several times in person however my fiancee wants a traditional kit which rules this out...

[jape]

I wouldn't be so polite and restrained if someone had published details of a private transaction of mine on a public forum. I was surprised to see that done, it would have been better by PM. Ethics are so low on the list these days, maybe I am old-fashioned.

[Steven J]

Jape,

I meant no offense by this at all. My appologies to you for the offence caused, and appologies to Edward where they are needed. I have no problems with you for calling my actions to account where you have seen necessary, however I did not consider it to be an unethical thing to do.

I did not think that neither myself nor Edward would feel embarrassed by others knowing that he had purchased one of my bows. He has also stated publicly on this forum before that he was extremely happy with the bow and the service of Wildwood Traditional Archery who he purchased the bow through.

In fact, it opened the opportunity for Edward to state publicly that my bow was not up to his standard. If anyone was to suffer from this, it would be my reputation as a bowyer. This is the 'can of worms' that I mentioned. As you no doubt know also a bow that shoots well for one user, might be a dog of a bow for another.

Maybe I am just lucky that Edward is so polite and restrained as you suggest.

My intention was to offer assistance in regards to draw weight with his bow. And to encourage / persuade him to take the opportunity to grow his fiancees interest in archery.

One day we will meet at a shoot and you will probably see that I am not a malicious person and we will get on fine and become mates.


Edward,

I fully understand 'savings mode' It is wise to think through you transactions with the thought that you demonstrate. There are too many impulsive purchasers in todays society

Still, if you have the opportunity to help your fiancee develop a passion that you also have, I would see that as a high priority too. While you are young and don't have kids she will come along with you, but when there are nappies to change, it is unlikely that she will come to a tournament to support you (she will need the support more than you). However, she may just come along with the difficulty of young kids if archery is truly her passion too.

I hope that you find a bow that works for her at a price range that is pleasently surprising.

Steve

[jape]

Sorry Steve, I didn't remember/know that Edward had told us all before and that makes a big difference of course.

[Edwarddgrey]

Jape - the privacy issue you raised is valid and normally it is an issue I take very seriously as I have had a bit of a tiff with a company after I submitted a resume to and found they had given a copy to some temporary contractor who then proceeded to show my associates.

However in this case I dont feel too threatened by Steve's comments... as he rightly mentioned I did actually leave him a good review on the site some time ago so the information was partly common knowledge.

Steven J - The bow you sold me in my eyes is still the bow in the review, I will not take away from my comments there except to say that like many on this site there is a craving to try all things different and find my niche...it has nothing to do with being unhappy or the quality of the bow...just the desire to have a collection of bows, try a range of types, and experiment. I still shoot the bow you made for me although I own five bows.

"One day we will meet at a shoot and you will probably see that I am not a malicious person and we will get on fine and become mates" - sounds good Steve...Im sure it will happen someday!

I will definately find a bow for her which suits her...I just thought that concept may have put a fail-safe to counteract the risk of her not being to use the new bow too...

[Steven J]

PM Reply to Jape.

Edward,

It never hurts to have a plan B

[greybeard]

Hi Edward,

I can appreciate your situation and understand the frustration your fiancée is feeling when pain takes away the pleasure of shooting a bow and arrow.

If possible get your fiancée to try as many different styles of risers as possible to see if she can find one that is suitable or that could be modified. Although her problem is different to mine you need to take time to experiment.

After putting up with pain every time I shot a longbow with a standard type of handle, as an experiment I dusted the cobwebs off my old Black Widow takedown recurve and shot over a hundred arrows without feeling any pain or discomfort.

I have since seen a hand specialist and x-rays revealed that the wrist cartilage has gone and bone rubbing on bone was causing the pain. It would appear that a high wrist grip alters the way the draw weight of the bow is applied to the wrist.

I have made a high wrist deflex/reflex bow for myself and will make a longbow incorporating a similar handle design. Needs final sanding and five coats of clear finish.

High Wrist Handle .jpg (80.45 KiB) Viewed 3025 times

The ‘purists’ may not like the idea but at least I can keep shooting the styles of bows that I enjoy. Another challenge will be to make a selfbow with this style of handle.

Cheers,

Daryl.

[GrahameA]

Personal Opinion

I feel the bow is great and I would rather shoot a high grip any day of the week.

Having seen the bow close-up it is another example of Greybeards excellent bow-building skills.

[Steven J]

G'day Darryl,

I like the solution to your problem. The grip on the bow looks great. I would love to see the whole bow.

Steve