Medieval arrow bags

[Mick Smith]

Until recently I always assumed that medieval archers carried their arrows in a quiver. As it turns out, they carried their arrows in cloth bags. The bags had some stiffening in the form of wicker pieces that held the material away from the fletches. The arrows were tied together near the points with twine and this also held them in the bag.

I think these bags were designed to make it possible to carry huge numbers of arrows without damage to their fletches. It also made them quick and easy to dispurse to the archers before or even during battles.

I was wondering if anyone here has ever tried to make a reproduction of one of these bags and if they have, perhaps they might have a photo or two of it?

It seems a little strange to me, that so many of us are heavilly involved in medieval re-enactments, yet I've never seen a reference to one of these bags on either Ozbow or at the few medieval displays that I've been to.

Mick

[Coach]

It seems a little strange to me, that so many of us are heavilly involved in medieval re-enactments,

Yeah , me too What happened to hunting those wascly wabbits ? You seem to be right into this Dress Up game now You finally "coming out of the closet"

[Mick Smith]

Coach

Nothing has really changed much mate. I'll always love hunting rabbits. I suppose my interest has been aroused, to a certain extent, has I've been exposed to quite a bit of historical stuff lately. I've always been very interested in history, especially when bows have been involved. I've been reading a few books about the medieval period and this is what has prompted my query.

I don't know about 'dress ups' though. I'll take a lot of pursuading to do anything more in this area. My bogman peasant outfit is about as far as I'm likely to proceed down this road at the moment.

Mick

[Len]

Mick, thats on my list of 'must do' but like everyone else I've been doing the more cool stuff like making armour, swords and now bows but it will happen, just not over night

[jape]

found this Mick, apparently they stuffed straw in the bottom too and have been authenticated from Mary Rose and one preserved one in a Museum, also the pic at bottom is medieval

http://www.english-longbow.co.uk/largep ... r%20spacer

http://cunnan.sca.org.au/wiki/Arrow_bag

http://images.yuku.com/image/jpeg/13c16 ... 928479.jpg

[GrahameA]

Hi Mick

Arrow bags were a military item. Not a target or hunting item.

Yes. But I have since sold it to a chap in Rocky.

Made it from light canvas. The hardest part is designing the spacer so that it keeps all the fletches seperate yet is not to large - they use to have 24 arrows in them. Richard Head in the UK sells some.

The one I made was a top loader only, ie you could only load and remove arrows from the top. There is significant evidence that they the originals may have also let you draw arrows straight through - the fletches would fold down as they were pulled through the spacer and through the opening in the bottom of the bag.

You need to make a decision when you make one are you going to have the spacer fitted to the bag or loose. I am unsure as to whether or not the originals had a permanent spacer. It is dependent on how the arrows were stored. i.e. Were the arrows pre-packed in bags or were they bundled through the spacer and then tied at the point?

A comment, it is suggested that the fletches could be covered to keep them dry. That being the case you need to design the bag so that the fletches do not get crushed by the cover. There are a few illustrations of the bags getting around and I would suggest that you look at the design carefully before committing to make a 'reproduction' because they don't all work that well. (Have a small amount of experience in what can go wrong.)

On a simpler note I have a few plain calico bags into which I can cram a couple of dozen arrows. Super simple and handy when you need to get a few archers on the field.

But that is not the end of the story. They also used a wicker basket that was conical in shape with a bell mouth. These were fitted with a canvas covering with a draw string top.

This chap has an arrow bag on the ground. (Which doesn't look quite right.)



There is an excellent photo of an arrow basket in one of the books featuring the Company-of-Saynt-George (sic). I have other books which may have a image and will look over the weekend.

-------------
edit
--------------

I do not have the book that I need. However these will help you.

Look at the bag on the ground:

http://medievalreenactment.fotopic.net/p18821915.html

Same archer slightly different photo.

http://medievalreenactment.fotopic.net/p18821971.html

They should give an idea of what can be done. The problem with that design is that it will crush the fletches. It can be alleviated by inverting the arrows by is that prototypical?

I have attached below an image of one of my calico arrow bags. The archer opted to just tie it to her belt - it works. As you can see you can get a few arrows into one. Normally, people just sling the bag over their shoulder. You can wear it like a quiver or sling it so it hang across your back.With arrows at waist level. Don't complain about the photo it was taken at night at Suncorp during a Broncos pre-game entertainment.

[Mick Smith]

Thanks for all those replies gentlemen.

It seems a little strange to me that the king's archers didn't use a quiver. I would have thought that a quiver would have offered much better mobility and convenience than the bags that they actually did use. I suppose the bags gave the fletches some protection against the weather, but then again, a small bag placed up-side-down over the top of a quiver would have been just as effective. Perhaps I'm just biased, being a long time quiver user.

Mick

[buzz]

The bags would have suited the transport and distribution of the large volumes of arrows being used. Its not like they just had a dozen shafts with them, they would potentially be showering the enemy with literally barrel loads of them. Possibly... if anything, a quiver attached to the archer may have been an impediment to a man in the battlefield. Pulling arrows out of a large upright bag is probably easier and faster than from a equally sized side quiver, and much easier and faster than from a back quiver. It would depend on what the archer is used to. Plus, being resupplied with another bag is easier than transferring arrows from one carry device to another.

Thanks for some great pics and images.

[jcm]

From the book -Of Bowmen and Battles- by Hugh D H Soar there are a few illustrations of arrow carrying kit.
Jape's reference - for Richard Head Longbows is a good site to have a look at the 24 arrow carry bag- only £39.99 .
John

[Jeffro]

Maybe they had cloth bags cause leather was to expensive for peasants.
They could have had a drafting system aswell where your going in the archers whether you like it or not "you peasants"

[Len]

Poorer peasants were never used for archers they only used well trained men and paid them well and in fact they usually rejected a lot of wanne be archers if they couldn't meed the strict standards of the army. Becoming a proffessional archer was a way to get off the farm so to speak and a way to get rich and gain social status amongst you're peers.
A typical campaign would involve taking over 1 million arrows packed in carts or wagons so you get an idea of why they packed them in protective arrow bags.

[hillbilly WA]

Becoming a proffessional archer was a way to get off the farm so to speak and a way to get rich and gain social status amongst you're peers.

Ahhh, times don't change do they...

[waynerob]

Here's one I prepared earlier... made from light canvas and 3.6mm leather, it is 160mm in diameter, the holes in the spacer are 13mm. This is copied from one on display in the Museum of London, the Mary Rose ones are virtually identical but without the triangular cutouts.

I made the spacer by taking a photo I'd taken in the MoL and printing it life size and using that as a template. I can document every hole and stitch. Both the MoL and Mary Rose spacers have small holes for a thong to pass through and to tie to the belt in use. Top and bottom are wrapped and tied so either end can be accessed. Importantly, with the cut-outs, the modified type 16 swept broadheads used by the Tudors and later also fit and don't need to be pushed though from the bottom against the feathers.

My wife did most of the canvas stitching, I did the stitching on the leatherwork and linen ties.

[Len]

waynerob, that is fantastic, you have really got me keen to have a go at making one this winter, well done.