The ideal tournament bow?

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Mick Smith · #1 Post by **Mick Smith** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:52 pm

I'm pretty new to the world of tournament shooting. In fact, it wasn't until I went to the "Great Southern Traditional Tournament" at Geelong a couple of months ago, that I was even aware of just how much fun these events are. I suppose it's a case of "better late than never".

I have spent the last several decades as basically, a small game bowhunter, with some regular large and medium game bowhunting jaunts. I had always turned my nose up at competitive shooting as "just not being my scene". Boy, how that has changed!

Recently I have found myself spending heaps more time browsing through the various field and target points, than I do, going though the broadhead section. I'm still a hunter, but I have a lot of catching up to do in the field of tournament shooting.

Whenever I bought myself a new bow, it was always purely with the thought of hunting in mind. It is for this reason that all of my bows have a draw weight from 50# to 60#. Bows of this weight are ideal for general hunting, but are they ideal for tournament shooting? I shot at the Geelong shoot with my Chek-Mate "Atilla" bow. It has a draw weight of 54# @ 28 inches. After the first day, my shoulder ached and I could bearly come to full draw.

This long preamble brings me to the point of this post. I'm curious to hear what the various Ozbow members consider to be their perfect tournament bow, or more precisely, the ideal draw weight of their chosen bow. I realise that most really keen hunters will simply choose their favorite hunting bow, but is a good hunting bow also a good tournament bow? After all penetration is not an issue with target and tournament shooting. A reasonably flat trajectory is a good thing to have, however, as is a good stable arrow flight for those close range shots.

From what I have seen, some of the field courses have shots from as far as 40 metres. This is a long shot by any standards and logic would dictate that a reasonably heavy bow would deliver the flater trajectory to take some of the guess work out of the equation. Alternatively, you might opt to use a lighter draw weight bow and achieve a flat trajectory by using lightweight arrows, but at some cost to consistency and smooth arrow flight.

I have deliberated long and hard over this conundrum and I have ended up leaning towards a recurve/longbow with a draw weight of around 45# @ 28 inches as being the best compromise between adequate power and ease of constant and repeated use. I believe a 45# bow would be the best tournament bow for me.

What sort of bow do you use?

Mick

gilnockie · #2 Post by **gilnockie** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:31 pm

Take yourself off to a target archery club sometime and talk to them about the bows they shoot.

A male target archer will typically use a take down recurve of between 32# to 36# draw weight. This bow will shoot target arrows, accurately, at distances of 90 metres. When target archers shoot clout they fit a different sight and they shoot at distances of about 200 metres.

If you want a bow for tournament use only, then you could look at a basic target bow without the stabilisers. A basic target bow will cost about $250, but they can cost up to $2k or more for the top of the line gear.

The sights also vary in cost. But if you use the bow only for field type tournaments, you could probably use a basic 5 pin hunting sight.

The secret of success with a target bow is well matched arrows. These can cost up $40 each, depending on how far you want to take this. And don't forget a pressure button. This will enable you to fine tune the arrows to the bow, and at different distances if required.

Your shoulder will thank you for using a target bow. A target archery tournament is run over 2 days and they shoot 144 arrows each day, plus a warm up in the morning and after lunch. Say 200 arrows per day for 2 days. Also, when they aim, target archers will hold their bow at full draw for up to 30 seconds.

But you should keep in mind, these are target bows and they are not designed for hunting.

Mick Smith · #3 Post by **Mick Smith** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:49 pm

Hi Norman

I suppose I should have specified that the sort of events I'm talking about are traditional events. The use of sights is forbidden, as are arrows that aren't made of wood and fletched with feathers.

A couple of weeks ago, I shot in the Geelong Horsebow Challenge with a borrowed bow, a 35# Mongol bow. I also used borrowed arrows. I found this draw weight adequate for most of the shooting, but there were a few targets out at around 35 metres on the field course. With these targets you only get the one shot, of course. I found the little 35# bow lacking, as it just couldn't kick a wooden arrow out with anything other than a "lollypop" rainbow trajectory at that range. My rationale for opting for a 45# bow for these type of traditional events was based partly on my experiences at this event with the 35# bow, as well as my earlier shooting experiences with my 54# bow. I thought that a 45# bow would be a satisfactory compromise, falling between the underpowered horsebow and my unnecessarily heavy 54# hunting bow. I have an injured shoulder, but a 45# bow doesn't seem to cause me grief compared to my 50# plus bows. I believe I could shoot a 45# bow until the cows came home.

Thanks for the input though.

I believe that a 35# bow would do a serviceable job, even at a traditional only event. It might be found lacking on some of the "sudden death" field course shots though.

As I said in my first post. I'm definitely a newcomer in this area of archery and I value your more experienced opinion.

It's good to have some open and frank discourse on this subject. This is what I was hoping for.

Mick

MaylandL · #4 Post by **MaylandL** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:06 pm

Horsebow ofcourse, but then again I'm a little biased, not that you'd guess

In all seriousness, it depends on the tournament that you'd want to compete in. The modern recurves tend to be pretty good in the 30-35# range with carbon arrows for FITA style target/field events. I'd be quite ok to shoot 144 arrow using a 55#+ bow. I already shoot about that many each sunday.

Personally I prefer the traditional tourneys with wood arrows with different style events. Under the FITA rules they are (I think) classified as novelty events. IMHO, I think its a lot more interesting, convivial and relaxed to have diffferent events like those in Geelong, Caboolture, Yatala where the emphasis is not just on the competition but shooting with like minded people. Yeah a little off topic.

So in terms of trad archery comp, probably a bow in the 50# range. Personal faves would be my Bear Kodiak Magnum (short, manoeveurable, good cast and easy to shoot) and the Avarian for similar reasons. The avarian would be more of a challenge to shoot because it doesnt have an arrow rest. Ergo why I bought both of them to Geelong.

Anna · #5 Post by **Anna** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:36 pm

G'day Mick,

Sounds like you've solved your conundrum....choose a bow you're comfortable shooting all day, that you can still pick up and draw on the second day of the comp. The flat trajectory of a heavier bow won't be real flat if it hurts too much to pull, and besides, you'd be surprised how many sneaky courselayers hide a deer behind a tall treestump so short people like me have to stand on tippytoes to see it. The rainbow trajectory can work on those shots (well that's the theory...)

I shoot a 40# longbow (but only draw 26", so probably pull 35-36 pounds) and I'm happy with it. As for the long shots....left hand UP, right hand ANCHOR......but I'm rubbish at it, so don't take my word that it works

little arrows · #6 Post by **little arrows** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:41 pm

Hey Mick,
Both Steve and I use the same bow for hunting and field archery. The key is use the archery shoots to keep the muscles toned for hunting, a set of matched arrows, just change the points - and away you go. I have brought large goats down with my 36# at 23" with no problems. Most of the trad shoots we go to you shoot around 50 arrows per day, maximum is 30 metres- not the number as shot at Geelong, or for that matter those distances.
Ballarat will give you a better idea of a true traditional/field archery shoot, as opposed to Geelong being a "tournament/target archery shoot".
Hey take all your bows and have a whirl. - see you there, we can talk more then.
sue

Mick Smith · #7 Post by **Mick Smith** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:45 pm

Hi Mayland

Yes mate, I too much prefer the traditional only type of event such as the Geelong shoot, the Gladstone Muster, etc. These shoots don't seem to have that same underlying seriousness as what I would imagine FITA type events would have. It's also great to check out the wildly different bows and arrows that competitors bring to these events. Talking about "wildly different", this terminology could well apply to many of the competitors too.

I noticed at the Geelong shoot that you seemed to be handling your 57# horsebow very consistently over the two days. I managed OK with my 54# recurve, but I was totally knackered by the end.

In the last week or so, I've done some damage to my left rotator cuff. I've had problems with my shoulder, on and off, with this injury over the last 5 years or so. As I'm not as young as I once was, I'm a bit worried that the problem might be more ongoing in the future.

I currently have on order, a 60# Chek-Mate Hunter T/D. The bow is due to be completed any day now. In view of my recent shoulder injury and my concerns that I may never be able to actually shoot it, I contacted Chad in a last minute bid to have the draw weight reduced.

I had a few shots of my 60# Martin Savannah in the backyard and it took only a couple of shots to totally realise that I was being silly even trying to draw this bow. After the third shot, I simply couldn't draw it to full draw. It's not due to any lack of strength, it was due to crippling pain when I tried.

Anyway, back to my Chek-Mate bow, Chad organised to change the limbs from the ordered 60#, down to my requested 45#, even though the 60# limbs were actually glued up and almost ready. Chad's customer service has to be the best around (thanks Chad

). I ordered a pair of additional 55# limbs too, that should be ready in about 6 months and hopefully my shoulder will be better by then.

This whole "kerfuffle" with my shoulder is my prime reason for this post. I am lacking a certain amount of confidence that I have made the right decision with going for 45# limbs on my new bow and I'm simply curious to hear what other more experienced, traditional only tournament shooters think. Those 45# limbs will still be fantastic on the bunnies with carbon arrows, no matter what.

Sorry about the long waffle-on.

Mick

Mick Smith · #8 Post by **Mick Smith** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:59 pm

Anna

I suppose you're right. I have solved my "conundrum" all by myself. In retrospect, I think I was just looking for some reinforcement and support for my decision.

Plus I'm curious what the more experienced tournament archers thoughts are, people such as yourself.

Actually, I don't think it matters all that much anyway, you will soon get used to any bow, if you use if for long enough.

Mick

Mick Smith · #9 Post by **Mick Smith** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:05 pm

Hi Sue

It does look at though my inexperience is showing. So far, my experience of competing in these sort of events is limited to just two events, both at Geelong.

If it is more common at other traditional (only) shoots, to only shoot around 50 arrows in a day, I could well get away with using one of my heavier bows.

I will find these things out for myself eventually, for I intend to go to as many shoots as I can in the future.

I'm not worried about having ordered my new bow with 45# limbs. It will be certain to be a sweet shooting bow as well as a very useful addition to my armoury.

I'm really looking foward to the Ballarat shoot. See you there.

Mick

ps. I will take a few bows too.

buzz · #10 Post by **buzz** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:30 pm

I suppose one thing to consider is shaft selection. In the 35# kind of draw range you are into the upper end of what a 5/16th POC will be good for. Go a touch heavier and you are in the bigger 11/32 diameter size with the accordingly heavier shaft.

MaylandL · #11 Post by **MaylandL** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:39 pm

Mick Smith wrote:...I noticed at the Geelong shoot that you seemed to be handling your 57# horsebow very consistently over the two days. I managed OK with my 54# recurve, but I was totally knackered by the end.

In the last week or so, I've done some damage to my left rotator cuff. I've had problems with my shoulder, on and off, with this injury over the last 5 years or so. As I'm not as young as I once was, I'm a bit worried that the problem might be more ongoing in the future.
...

G'day Mick

Sorry to hear about your shoulder/rotator cuff injury. I've had a dislocated shoulder in the distant past and I can say it isnt pleasant. Worse part about a dislocated shoulder is having to have it put back in...ouch!

I've been working for the past couple of years with weight training to strengthen my shoulder and upper body so that I can comfortably shoot a 65# bow all day if needs be. At present I shoot a sub 60# to maintain control and good shooting form. Hence, I'm able to shoot for long periods of time. The part that hurts first are my fingers on the hand that draws the bow. I'm lucky to work for a company that has its own gym.

Look after the shoulder mate and if you are able to, to get it seen to by a medical professional. I train in martial arts as well and you got to look after your joints.

All the best for the shoulder and hope to catch up with you on the shooting line sometime.

GrahameA · #12 Post by **GrahameA** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:57 pm

Hi Mick

IMHO

FITA recurve fitted with Carbon limbs around the 32-34lb. As long as it was acceptable. I would need to check the rules. If they say no rest they you need to pack out the riser to shoot off the shelf.

Arrows - lightest (mass) I could find. Probably POC although could well go with Quandong or Silverwoods. I would want the fastest possible arrows coincident with light draw weight. (It suits my less than ideal style.)

Alternates:

* Older FITA recurve with glass limbs if I wanted to save some cash. Choice - Yamaha EX, Hoyt GM

* WARF with lighter limbs to provide a draw weight of mid to low 30's.

Why the FITA bow - because the pain in the shoulder - I know how you feel - can be excruciating. And if the Spinatis (spelling) gets inflammed.... Well I can do without another 5 months of physio. If you are serious it is probably better to use the same bow for everything.

Anna

Big stump, low Deer. No problem just aim to miss the top of the stump.

Clear shot with Deer against a black background - now that is a difflicult shot.

Anysia · #13 Post by **Anysia** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:57 pm

Sorry to hear/read about your shoulder problems, and I definitely feel for you on this subject. Was in motorcycle accident over 20 yrs ago, landed very hard on right elbow, and really jammed the ball into the rotator cuff. Has been glitchy every since.

Mick Smith · #14 Post by **Mick Smith** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:50 pm

Hi Buzz

Yes mate, the arrows do warrant a lot of thought too. What you have said about 5/16 inch POC shafts is largly true, however I notice in the 3 Rivers Archery catalog, they list 5/16 inch POC shafts as coming in spines up to and including 40 - 45#.

I don't know of any commonly available shafts that are more lightweight than Port Orford cedar shafts. Bamboo shafts may well be lighter but they aren't exactly commonly available, however 3 Rivers Archery once again lists them in their catalog as "Nature's Carbon, lightweight and fast", but they're US$10.50 each.

If the lightest practical arrow is also the best arrow for traditional shoots, then a 5/16 POC together with 70 grain 5/16 field tips may well be the "go", even with a 45# recurve. They would certainly be worth a try at least.

Mick

Mick Smith · #15 Post by **Mick Smith** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:58 pm

Mayland and Anysia

My shoulder injuries are a result of an old motorcycle accident too. My rotator cuff problem surfaces from time to time and has done so since the accident, about 5 years back. It has always settled down in the past, so I see no reason why it shouldn't do the same again this time around.

Thanks for the show of concern and advice.

It's a real pity that drawing and shooting a bow seems to aggravate this type of injury.

Mick

Anna · #16 Post by **Anna** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:07 pm

Mick,

Talk to Sue and Steve about arrows when you see them at Ballarat. Steve's quandong shafts are a little heavier than POC but the consistency and the way they fly more than makes up for it.

Anysia

Like the new avatar! Artemis or Diana? (or both?)

Mick Smith · #17 Post by **Mick Smith** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:07 pm

Grahame

Thanks for relating your thoughts on the subject mate. As usual your point of view, is well thought out and logical.

I can't ever see myself buying an "out and out" target bow though, I'm just not that serious about being competitive. I like my hunting bows too much, even my new 45# bow will be placed into service in the field of hunting on a regular basis.

Your mention of selecting very lightweight arrows is interesting too. I think that so long as you can maintain good arrow flight and good consistant performance, lightweight arrows would have to offer many advantages.

Mick

buzz · #18 Post by **buzz** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:54 pm

Mick,
re the POC's ~ IIRC you have "normal" 28" draw, this would make a 40-45# spine too low for a 45# recurve. http://www.3riversarchery.com/pdf/WoodChart.pdf

Depending on rules.... I would lean towards GrahameA's advice. So long as the limbs are straight and sit square, even some entry level "target" bows will shoot better than many archers are capable of. A friend uses a 30# Samick AZ with its bulky wooden riser and fibreglass limbs to great effectiveness in his SCA events ~ drilling the gold @ 20yards with monotonous regularity. It just has the plastic rest, no plunger, no real fancy tuning.

In the sort of event you are thinking about, are there any "rules" that require a wooden riser or limbs... or "no shooting off a rest" etc.

Does anyone have any feedback on using wooden shafts with the more modern target style limbs? I am thinking of doing a set of POC's to try with my 30# Hoyt Elan.. just to see how it goes.

Mick Smith · #19 Post by **Mick Smith** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:45 pm

Buzz

I still reckon those 5/16 inch POC shafts spined at 40-45# would work OK. Remember we are going to fit these hypothetical arrows with 70 grain field points. The table in your link stipulates that it is for 125 grain points. I still might buy a dozen and give them a whirl to see how they go.

I'm sure that a purpose designed target bow would out perform most hunting bows in the accuracy stakes. It is well recognised that a longer recurve bow with lots of mass in the riser, will be a good consistent and forgiving bow. Modern target recurves are also very fast for any given draw weight. I believe that if you were looking for the ultimate "traditional tournament" bow, it may well actually be a FITA type target recurve minus sights and stabiliser, shooting perfectly matched wooden arrows. The only trouble is, in a way, it sort of defeats the whole purpose of having a simulated hunting tournament in the first place, if you know what I mean. One of the best aspects of these "get togethers" is the lack of aggressive competition displayed by participants. Personally, I'm not too sure if it's "cricket".

Anna

I sure would like to buy some of Sue's and Steve's arrows at Ballarat. I reckon they are very well priced for the amount of effort that's gone into them. I'm sure they would perform as well as they look too. I don't know if I'd be game to use them though, they're just too pretty to get lost or broken. No doubt, I'll have a good look and drool while I'm there though.

Mick

perry · #20 Post by **perry** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:35 am

Mick this year Im shooting with a 46 # selfbow Sitka Spruce arrows fletched with 3 or 4 4 1/2" feathers and 125 grain points total average weight 430 grains . The selfbow has good cast but doesnt compare to a fibreglass bow, I just practice for the longer range .
Last year I had a great year comp wise shooting a similar weight bow and hoop pine shafts average weight of 550 grains.I think with a fibreglass bow of 45# and if you ordered yourself some Sitka Spruce shafts from 3 Rivers you will be more than pleased with the performance you get from them.
Sitka Spruce is probably as light or lighter than P.O.C but is extremely resilient, its as tough as oregan in my book
regards Perry

GrahameA · #21 Post by **GrahameA** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:00 am

Hi Buzz and Mick

So long as the limbs are straight and sit square, even some entry level "target" bows will shoot better than many archers are capable of

So true - and I would say most. (Definitely better than I shoot.)

I have, and regularly shoot, a couple of 'older' bows and I have no intention of replacing them with something more modern. If you were to put them into a "Hooter Shooter" with matched arrows you would be smashing arrows at 40 yards and cannot shoot anywhere near that good.

If you want after a bow that is dedicated to Comp' work perhaps it it better to look at what the rules/regulations allow and the typical target first. Then consider the bow. As an example if you are tending to shoot in a more enclosed environment then a shorter bow is an advantage. Being able to clear the 'scrub' can be more important than the stability of long limbs. The more arrows you shoot the less draw weight you want - fatigue issue. If the distance are known then arrow velocity is not as important.

On top of this is 'style'. It can be a lesson in acuracy to watch good FITA Barebow shooters in action. Many use tabs with clear and accurate stitching for good reasons. And there are advantages in using Hoyt plastic rests.

(This could be of interest when you are looking at target competition http://www.archery-forum.com/showthread.php?t=13435)

Buzz. I have shot Silver Quandong, Vic Ash and POC shafts out of my EX, YTSL, KG1 and WARF (which has Samick 'Carbon Universal' limbs). No problems have been encountered at any stage. I shot at the Corrival using the WARF and there was a chap there using an EX. Works fine.

However, the variations between arrows can be noticeable at the longer ranges and you will need to retune the bow, if you are keen.

So far I find I need to spine at 10-15 lbs above the bow weight.

Summer is coming so making up a couple of dozen matched arrows will give you something to do while escaping the heat.

Brumbies Country · #22 Post by **Brumbies Country** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:05 pm

Mick

Grahame, Buzz and others have given you good advice re lower poundage recurve bows and with any sort of injury this would be the best way to go.

If you at some stage want to shoot a longbow in these competitions then I've found a 40lb bow with 5/16 poc shafts 3 x 4" fletches and 100grain points is fine for field shooting out to 40m and can shoot 50m with a bit more trajectory. I've found a 45 lb LB with the same arrows to be OK for FITA target to 60m though it something of an artillery trajectory at that distance. The guy who won the longbow section at the recent World IFFAA Champs (Darryl Reeks) where you get one shot at a target at 80yards and regular 4 arrow targets at 65 yards, shot a bow in the low 40 pounds region (around 42-43lbs).

Mick Smith · #23 Post by **Mick Smith** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:22 pm

Grahame, Perry & Brumbies Country

It's funny, you know, when you investigate what appears to be a simple concept, like the ideal tournament bow, it seems the deeper you go into any subject, the more complicated and complex it becomes. It stands to reason I suppose.

I prefer simple and neat solutions, so I think I'll just stick with my, yet to arrive 45# Chek-Mate recurve, as being "my" ideal traditional shoot bow, although I'm fully prepared to admit that it may not be the "ultimate" traditional bow.

You mentioned the use of tabs in your last post which is coincidental, as I've been thinking recently that I might give the use of a tab another go, as I can see clear cut advantages in their use when speed is not of the essence. The finger spacer and the super-slick release surface combine to make them superior, IMO. You talked about "clear and accurate stitching" when describing the tabs in use by FITA barebow shooters, I don't understand exactly what you mean by this.

I plan to make up some lightweight arrows for my new bow, especially for traditional shoots. I'll use 5/16 inch shafts with 70 grain points. I'll have a good look at all the different woods, including Sitka Spruce, but I like the fact that the POC shafts from both 3 Rivers Archery and Kustom King Archery can be bought in matched for weight sets of a dozen. My mind is already ticking over with colours and designs.

The ideal traditional tournament bow for everyone may not be a recurve at all, in fact it's been my experience that longbows outnumber recurves in these events by about 5 to 1. There's just "that something" about longbows that you've got to love. They may not be quite as effective or as efficient as a recurve, but they sure have a big following. I love longbows too (I currently own 2 of them) and I'm currently getting another one made for me, also in 45#. Then of course we have horsebows ........

My thanks to everyone who took the effort to respond and interact with this thread.

Mick

buzz · #24 Post by **buzz** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:12 pm

Mick Smith wrote:You mentioned the use of tabs in your last post.... You talked about "clear and accurate stitching" when describing the tabs in use by FITA barebow shooters, I don't understand exactly what you mean by this.
Mick

It is for stringwalking... while you are not allowed artificial marks on your bow or tab, neat even stitching is the next best thing: eg start with the 3 fingers under the nock, then move the top of the tab 8 stitches down for 20m, 3 for 40m etc.

Some bodies and classes forbid it, and I am pretty sure SCA shoots are all split finger draw.

Brumbies Country · #25 Post by **Brumbies Country** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:24 pm

Mick, you have pretty well drawn a very interesting thread to a close. Just wondered where you get your 70 grain points from for 5/16" arrows?

Mick Smith · #26 Post by **Mick Smith** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:07 pm

Thanks Buzz. I've often heard about string walking and I believe that I understand the principal of how it works, but I've never actually tried it.

Brumbies Country, those 70 grain field points are very hard to get in this country. I think they are relatively new. I bought some for my little girl's arrows a couple of months back from www.kustomkingarchery.com for US$3.25 a dozen, by memory. The postage cost me more than the points. I've actually tried some of these points on some arrows I made up for myself. These arrows were grossly underspined for my 50# recurve with 125 grain points, so I swapped the points over and now they shoot very well from even my 54# recurve. The arrows are Silverwoods and they shoot noticably flater than any other wooden arrows I have.

I've enjoyed this thread too. I've learnt a thing or two as well.

Mick

buzz · #27 Post by **buzz** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:12 pm

http://www.kustom-king.com/ I think it is.

GrahameA · #28 Post by **GrahameA** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 6:57 am

Mick

Stringwalking is allowed in some classes. You now know why the stitching. Similary with a suitable rest you can get a very accurate draw length. Although given that you are using wood arrows I would concentrate on getting a consistent set first.

Longbows - Well there is an inherent beauty in them and lots of people like to shoot them. Some days they are in the ascendancy and other days not. Do not confuse effective and efficient. The bow efficiency of a longbow is a result of its shape. However it is still highly effective.

The thing about light draw weights is that if you are in a comp' where you will shooting lots of arrows your body will appreciate the lower draw weight and so will your scores after a few arrows. If you are in a comp' where you only shoot a few arrows then your score will appreciate the higher velocity. (And there is match fitness to consider.

)

70gn points - give John McDonald a ring.

Brumbies Country · #29 Post by **Brumbies Country** » Thu Nov 02, 2006 8:06 am

Thanks Mick and Buzz re the info concerning 70 grain points.

Re Grahame's comments about recurves and longbows, I shot barebow recurve for a while and shot some good scores with it. On switching to longbow I quickly learn't to eat humble pie. You just don't score anything like the same score initially and indeed for some time, and indeed yet

. The mechanical efficiency is not in the same ball park, especially if the recurve is of an Olympic take down type. The matching of wooden arrows in spine and weight for the longbow adds a dimension. You get relatively considerably more muscle aches with the longbow striving for better performance.

Despite all this, in a competitive situation, the absolute challenge of getting that longbow to perform somewhere near your expectations, of watching that magical curve of arrow flight on the longer targets (clout with a longbow is something again), of getting an A with your first arrow on an ABA buffalo at 48m (despite missing easier targets earlier with all 3 arrows) somehow make it all worth while.

perry · #30 Post by **perry** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 6:49 am

A vital thing to remember in order to get an accurate arrow with a longbow and especialy selfbows is forward of centre. It is difficult to get a forward of centre in excess of 12% if you are using a 70 gr point unless you are using a hardwood footing or a hollowtail shaft.
Dont confuse a flatter trajectory and easier aiming with a more accurate arrow thats the mistake our compound mates are so fond of . I use a minimum FOC of 15% for my target arrows , lately I've been using closer to 18%and am pleased with how more accurate my arrows are.I use a self bow exclusively , fibreglass bows are cut closer to centre have more cast on average and in my experience usualy dont need a target arrow above 15% FOC.
Any stick will shoot an arrow,takes a heap of work to make a good arrow. regards Perry

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