Ace Classic Medieval Points

Message

Mick Smith · #1 Post by **Mick Smith** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 8:06 pm

I was browsing though the 3 Rivers Archery website and came across these interesting points. I thought they would be just the ticket for someone looking for something more in keeping with their historically inspired arrows. They are fairly pricey though, at US$9.95 for a pack of six, but they sure look the part.

Mick

jaselpool · #2 Post by **jaselpool** » Fri Oct 27, 2006 10:28 pm

Hi Mick

Yep seen them the other day. I buy mine from Richard Head Longbows. They are similar and are 90p each ($1.69).

I might just get some of those and see what they look like on a medieval arrow

buzz · #3 Post by **buzz** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:15 am

I notice that they don't mention the weight.

nimrod · #4 Post by **nimrod** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 1:14 am

hi guys they weigh nominal 125grains mine vary from 124-126 the look great on poc shafts but can be a bugger to extract from some things .

jaselpool · #5 Post by **jaselpool** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:18 am

nimrod wrote:hi guys they weigh nominal 125grains mine vary from 124-126 the look great on poc shafts but can be a bugger to extract from some things .

Which ones? Mine or Mick's?

J

nimrod · #6 Post by **nimrod** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:47 am

jas micks I have them on 6 shafts they are cool looking

perry · #7 Post by **perry** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:59 am

Fella's buy some field points and grind them to the profile of your choice on a bench grinder , Cliff Turpins been doing it for years with both 125 and 160 grain points . only cost your time then.
regards Perry

GrahameA · #8 Post by **GrahameA** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 8:17 am

Hi All

An opinion, Anything that has a waisted form can be a pain to get out of a target butte.

Andrea Willett · #9 Post by **Andrea Willett** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:04 am

Manning Imperial in Ballarat will cast or forge period arrowheads. I thought Craig had a greater variety on his website but I could only find Ancient Greek ones under /Arms/Projectile Weapons. Send him a picture/drawing and dimensions of what you want & he'll quote on them.

http://www.manningimperial.com/index.php

Andrea

Mick Smith · #10 Post by **Mick Smith** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 12:07 pm

Gee Andrea, that's an interesting site and it's only over in Ballarat. I had no inkling they even existed.

Mick

buzz · #11 Post by **buzz** » Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:58 pm

Indeed, great link thanks.
In case I ever need a trebuchet I now know where I can get one...

If I ever get roped into one of the "father and son camps" with the little fella's school I will really need to take one of these: http://www.manningimperial.com/item.php?item_id=388
I don't think they will ever bug me again.

Andrea Willett · #12 Post by **Andrea Willett** » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:44 am

Nah mate. You set it up in the backyard and lob rocks over the house whenever people come selling Watchtower, Optus, etc. Pity the telemarketers don't show up in person. "Perfect for home defense".

I've emailed Craig to put some of his other arrowheads up on the website. I know he's got some. I've seen them.

perry · #13 Post by **perry** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:58 am

My daughter has come home with exactly that people , Ive got 2 more weeks to make her a scale model Trebuchet [ she's supposed to research and design it ] so they can have a mini war as part of there lessons . When I was a kid we only took shanghai's to school . I wont play with it at all , just further her education !
regards Perry

GrahameA · #14 Post by **GrahameA** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:25 am

Hi Perry

My $0:02c worth

If you build one with a fixed counterweight then mount it of a platform with wheels.

If you decide to go with a fixed platform then use a swinging counterweight.

perry · #15 Post by **perry** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:37 pm

Thanks for the advice Graham. It will be mounted on wheels behind her battery powered Barbie horse and should throw a mean spitball !

buzz · #16 Post by **buzz** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:59 pm

"Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam"

http://www.ripcord.ws/ features
http://www.ripcord.ws/plans/plans.html

http://www.trebuchet.com/
has some neat pics but wants you to buy plans (like most of the websites it seems)

This is a guys 1/6th scale project and has info and links for calculating length and distances.
http://www.io.com/~beckerdo/other/trebuchet.html

(sorry... couldn't help myself and I had to google it)

GrahameA · #17 Post by **GrahameA** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:30 pm

Hi All

I seem to remember a couple of members of Ozbow who have ties to the 'Grey Company'.

Start asking them questions.

http://members.iinet.com.au/~rmine/gctrebs.html

Long live the 'Cheesechucker'.

Meanwhile for those interested in Trebuchets.

Timeline has some excellent footage of Trebuchets in action - and some not bad archery action. Rating 4 pizzas

Extra Trivia - Check out the "Night Arrows"

Kingdom of Heaven a number of Trebuchets can be seen in operation. Plus lots of other action. However it drags a bit and only gets 3 1/2 pizzas.

For those who want something a little modern have you ever considered a floating arm Trebuchet??

MaylandL · #18 Post by **MaylandL** » Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:45 pm

GrahameA wrote:...I seem to remember a couple of members of Ozbow who have ties to the 'Grey Company'.

Start asking them questions.

http://members.iinet.com.au/~rmine/gctrebs.html

Long live the 'Cheesechucker'.
...[/i]

Mububban is a current member and I used to be. I was the token Mongol horde of 1

Mububban · #19 Post by **Mububban** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:09 pm

I've got 6 machined bodkins similar to the Richard Head points, from Alwyn's Arrows in the UK, which is now shut down. They're 125 grains and for machined heads, they look really nice and not too perfect. Some I find lok way too neat and tidy and are obviously machine made, whereas these ones still retain enough of a "look" that makes them look like hand forged, then tidied up, heads. I'm planning on putting them on some 23/64 vic ash shafts, partially for display at shows and partially to use.

And yeah, if anyone wants some trebuchet advice I can pass on the email address of our resident treb builder. We've got another feast coming up in mid-December, the cheese chuckers may make another appearance

Mububban · #20 Post by **Mububban** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:52 pm

While on the subject of points, I noticed these on the 3Rivers site - 20 grain steel points. What sort of arrow would you want so little weight on the front of?

Mick Smith · #21 Post by **Mick Smith** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:32 pm

Mububban

Those pressed steel points are designed to go on kid's arrows. Kid's arrows need to be very light due to the very low draw weight bows they use. If you put a normal field point on a kid's arrow, it will perform poorly.

If you put those pressed steel points on an adult's arrow, you will also get poor flight characteristics.

Mick

Mububban · #22 Post by **Mububban** » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:02 pm

That's the only thing I could think of, but 20 grains! That's like 1.3 grams isn't it?

A mate's 9 year old son wants to get into archery. What sort of wood is good for kids' arrows? I've got some 25-30lb vic ash shafts i can cut down to mid-20 inch draw length. As well as some broken cedar shafts that are too short for an adult now. I was thinking of buying some cheap field points and grinding them to a lighter weight on a belt sander.

jaselpool · #23 Post by **jaselpool** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:39 am

Mububban wrote:I've got 6 machined bodkins similar to the Richard Head points, from Alwyn's Arrows in the UK, which is now shut down. They're 125 grains and for machined heads, they look really nice and not too perfect. Some I find lok way too neat and tidy and are obviously machine made, whereas these ones still retain enough of a "look" that makes them look like hand forged, then tidied up, heads. I'm planning on putting them on some 23/64 vic ash shafts, partially for display at shows and partially to use.

And yeah, if anyone wants some trebuchet advice I can pass on the email address of our resident treb builder. We've got another feast coming up in mid-December, the cheese chuckers may make another appearance

You all probably know about these target friendly points anyway but seeing as nobody has mentioned them I will for those that don't know:

Eagle Classic Modbods.

I use these a lot for my customers and myself. Medieval looking but with a rounded point - very east to pull from straw targets etc. Available for Ã‚Â£6.00 a doz in 11/32 and 5/16 dia

Shot isn't great from their site but you can see them on some of my arrows on my site's gallery if you need to see higher res ones.

http://www.crazyeaglemarketing.com/eagl ... ry/diy.htm

Mububban · #24 Post by **Mububban** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:58 am

On the subject of point weights - does anyone know how heavy a forged warhead would weigh? I'm making some replica war arrows, historically they were up to a half inch diameter shaft, with 3 x 6-8 inch triangle feathers, with thread wrapping, and a horn reinforced self nock.

They were also predominantly fired at a high lobbed angle in massed volleys, rather than straight at an individual target. So flying smooth and flat is not such an issue.

Anyone got any guides? I'm seeing my friend who's been playing around with forging arrow heads this Saturday. We're going to try and get some heat treated and hardened as well.

GrahameA · #25 Post by **GrahameA** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:45 pm

Kev

Depending on the style it will vary. However consider the range 2 to 3 1/2 oz as reasonable. (That is roughly 900 to 1500grains.) The olde arrows were around 4oz all up.

Brumbies Country · #26 Post by **Brumbies Country** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:22 pm

GrahameA wrote:Kev

Depending on the style it will vary. However consider the range 2 to 3 1/2 oz as reasonable. (That is roughly 900 to 1500grains.) The olde arrows were around 4oz all up.

Grahame, I must admit to not knowing that points were that heavy. So if you take a 100lb medieval selfbow, probably yew, with an arrow with that point weight, and the shaft itself of quite considerable weight, how would it compare to a modern fibreglass/ wood laminated longbow using say, 500 grain arrows. I don't know enough to make the comparison but would a 60-70lbs longbow of modern construction get you a similar performance re distance of cast? Penetration of the medieval bow would presumably be considerably greater.

jaselpool · #27 Post by **jaselpool** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 10:06 pm

Bear in mind that medieval archers were pulling bows between 160-185+ as a minimum so the weight of the original arrow heads would have travelled better. If you're shooting a lower weight bow than this then wouldn't you need to drop the weight of the arrow head in comparison to achieve a better flight?

J