G'Day i am just wondering if you can use artificial sinew instead of the real stuff and still get the same results as real sinew is hard to find.
Also what glues can i use.
Sinew Backing
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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Stickbow Hunter
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ole_silver
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sinew backing..
hi RBEE.............
i just asked the same question to the well know Bowyer, Glenn Newell..
his response was it will work of a type but not as well as the real thing...
Glenn come explain this better......
ole_silver.........
i just asked the same question to the well know Bowyer, Glenn Newell..
his response was it will work of a type but not as well as the real thing...
Glenn come explain this better......
ole_silver.........
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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danceswithdingoes
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Artificial sinew is ok for binding but not much good for backing, try your local butcher to see if he/she can get you some roo sinew, as it is highly regarded as a backing medium, dry it like deer sinew and treat the same, you will also need to source a suitable fish/hide glue to bond it with. Silk backing is a whole lot easier and can be as effective. Is it for looks or is the back beginning to splinter?
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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It is because on every bow i have made the back has splintered and cracked. Im really looking for not that much of are performance boost but i am more looking for a material that will give my spotted gum bow a bit more strength and durability.And prevent the back limb failures.
Ive also been told bamboo can work well in giving the bow extra strength.
Ive also been told bamboo can work well in giving the bow extra strength.
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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sinew backing
Running Bear
Bamboo will certainly work as a backing. Do a search for this and you will find plenty of useful threads. The other natural 'Aussie' material you may want to source is emu leg sinew. Look for breeders in your local directory. I am negotiating with some breeders here to be able to supply trad bowyers ... keep in touch if you are interested.
Bamboo will certainly work as a backing. Do a search for this and you will find plenty of useful threads. The other natural 'Aussie' material you may want to source is emu leg sinew. Look for breeders in your local directory. I am negotiating with some breeders here to be able to supply trad bowyers ... keep in touch if you are interested.
RBEE,
Silk backing can be ok but it won't help if you have a major failure on the back of the bow. Japanese jockey silk is supposed to be better than the silk used for suits. PVA glues work well with silk but at times you have to smoothe out air bubles with a moist finger. Also apply glue to the dull side of the silk as well as the bow. If you consider using bamboo as a backing material be careful that the bamboo does not over power the spotted gum as this could make the belly collapse. You did not mention the profile (cross section) of the bow you are making.
Daryl.
Silk backing can be ok but it won't help if you have a major failure on the back of the bow. Japanese jockey silk is supposed to be better than the silk used for suits. PVA glues work well with silk but at times you have to smoothe out air bubles with a moist finger. Also apply glue to the dull side of the silk as well as the bow. If you consider using bamboo as a backing material be careful that the bamboo does not over power the spotted gum as this could make the belly collapse. You did not mention the profile (cross section) of the bow you are making.
Daryl.
silk backing
I omitted to mention ... Gilnockie recommends Du Poin silk (natural or ivory colour) available through Spotlight stores. Good quality and quite reasonable. The silk goes transparent when you apply glue and allow the grain of the timber to show through. use Titebond 2, epoxy or a good PVA.
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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danceswithdingoes
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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This is a board bow with a flat back sorry i have no pics as my camera isnt working.
The bows 180cm long and it is 19mm thick at the middle of the handle which i took a bit off the belly to make it 15mm thick at the tips.
I lefta 150mm(75mm to each side of the centre line) and made it go in 4mm on each side to form a handle and from the 75mm line on both sides of the handle area it starts at 40mm wide and goes down to 15mm wide at the tips. And the nocks are 20mm down from the end of the tips.
On both occasions my bows cracked about mid limb as soon as i hit about 20inchs of draw.
I drew up a diagram on the comp however i do not know how to put it in my reply.
The bows 180cm long and it is 19mm thick at the middle of the handle which i took a bit off the belly to make it 15mm thick at the tips.
I lefta 150mm(75mm to each side of the centre line) and made it go in 4mm on each side to form a handle and from the 75mm line on both sides of the handle area it starts at 40mm wide and goes down to 15mm wide at the tips. And the nocks are 20mm down from the end of the tips.
On both occasions my bows cracked about mid limb as soon as i hit about 20inchs of draw.
I drew up a diagram on the comp however i do not know how to put it in my reply.
RBEE,
I tend to agree with Danceswithdingoes that it is a profile problem. From experience 'D' section bows aren't conducive to hardwoods unless you can get a healthy piece of late growth on the back. A flatter 'D' section could help solve the problem and maybe lighten off more from mid limb to tip. Backing with bamboo may work if you take off the crown and use the softer inner.
Daryl.
I tend to agree with Danceswithdingoes that it is a profile problem. From experience 'D' section bows aren't conducive to hardwoods unless you can get a healthy piece of late growth on the back. A flatter 'D' section could help solve the problem and maybe lighten off more from mid limb to tip. Backing with bamboo may work if you take off the crown and use the softer inner.
Daryl.
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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danceswithdingoes
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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Hi RBEE,
You mentioned that the limbs fail at about a 20 inch draw. How much time do you spend on the tiller board? With self bows never draw them past the desired draw weight while making them and once ready for shooting never take them to full draw with the first arrow. I normally shoot over 100 arrows at progressive draw lengths before getting to full draw. Also I give the stave a good workout on the tiller board during the process.
Daryl.
You mentioned that the limbs fail at about a 20 inch draw. How much time do you spend on the tiller board? With self bows never draw them past the desired draw weight while making them and once ready for shooting never take them to full draw with the first arrow. I normally shoot over 100 arrows at progressive draw lengths before getting to full draw. Also I give the stave a good workout on the tiller board during the process.
Daryl.
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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I didnt spend to much time on the tiller board thats probably another one of my mistakes but i thought it was tiller was ok at 15inches so i went to twenty and crack there goes hours of work so obviously im doing something very wrong.
However i according to your information Daryl i went really wrong by not shooting arrows at short draws. How important is this and should the tiller be perfect before the short draw shots.
Thanks
However i according to your information Daryl i went really wrong by not shooting arrows at short draws. How important is this and should the tiller be perfect before the short draw shots.
Thanks
Hi! RBEE,
I have tried to put into words the way I make a self bow. It is not the only way to make a bow but it works for me. The following text is from one of my worksheets for flat bows but the basic principles apply to all styles of self bows. Once you have cut out the basic shape try floor tillering the stave and once it flexes about 5 inches fie in the string grooves.
The tiller string should be approximately four inches longer than the stave.
With the aid of a tillering board gradually work the tiller string to the first slot. If the bow stave is reluctant to bend remove the bow stave from the tiller board and remove more wood from the belly and put the bow stave back on the tillering board. Once the string is in the first slot mark any stiff areas on the limbs and remove wood from those areas. Remember; remove wood from the belly of the bow stave not the back. Ideally we need to achieve a gradual bend from the fadeouts of the handle section to mid limb with a uniform sweep to the tips. At this stage it may be necessary to work on the fadeouts to achieve the gradual bend. This area of the bow is important as the fade outs must work in conjunction with the shoulders of the limbs at the handle section. During the tillering process it may be necessary to remove some wood from the edges of the limbs. If so, do it sparingly as the tillering of the bow is governed more by the thickness of the limb not its width. When you are satisfied with the bend in the limbs pull the tiller string back to a slot to give you a 5†brace height. Measure the distance between the string grooves and make up a string to suit. Allow approximately half an inch for stretch in a Dacron string.
Once the bow stave is strung the limbs may change their tiller, that is the distance between the string and the bow stave in relationship with the upper and lower limb. It is preferable to have one eight to one quarter of an inch more in the upper limb, the measurement being taken about fourteen inches from the center of the handle. If needed mark stiff areas and sparingly remove more wood. Short draw the bow a few times and check the tiller. Once again if needed remove more wood. If a hinge or soft spot appears do not touch this area and instead work the stiff area either side to reduce the tension. Although sometimes laborious tillering is probably the most crucial step in crafting a good selfbow. Each time after removing wood restring the bow and short draw it a few times. Repeat the previous steps as often as necessary. When satisfied shoot 10 to 15 arrows into a butt at a 10 to 12 inch draw length. Repeat this procedure gradually in 2 inch increments. At each stage check the bows tiller and if needed remove wood from the offending limb to bring the bow back into tiller. During this settling in period do not draw the bow past the desired draw weight. At this stage with the bow in tiller it may be necessary to remove more wood to obtain the desired weight at the required draw length. Wooden bows can lose up to five pounds or more after being shot in. The drop in draw weight is usually consistent with string follow, that is the limbs travel a shorter distance when taken to full draw, therefore less energy is stored.
During the tillering process I work the tiller string up and down 10 to 15 times before going to the next slot. This helps the stave to get used to bending.
Hope this helps,
Daryl.
I have tried to put into words the way I make a self bow. It is not the only way to make a bow but it works for me. The following text is from one of my worksheets for flat bows but the basic principles apply to all styles of self bows. Once you have cut out the basic shape try floor tillering the stave and once it flexes about 5 inches fie in the string grooves.
The tiller string should be approximately four inches longer than the stave.
With the aid of a tillering board gradually work the tiller string to the first slot. If the bow stave is reluctant to bend remove the bow stave from the tiller board and remove more wood from the belly and put the bow stave back on the tillering board. Once the string is in the first slot mark any stiff areas on the limbs and remove wood from those areas. Remember; remove wood from the belly of the bow stave not the back. Ideally we need to achieve a gradual bend from the fadeouts of the handle section to mid limb with a uniform sweep to the tips. At this stage it may be necessary to work on the fadeouts to achieve the gradual bend. This area of the bow is important as the fade outs must work in conjunction with the shoulders of the limbs at the handle section. During the tillering process it may be necessary to remove some wood from the edges of the limbs. If so, do it sparingly as the tillering of the bow is governed more by the thickness of the limb not its width. When you are satisfied with the bend in the limbs pull the tiller string back to a slot to give you a 5†brace height. Measure the distance between the string grooves and make up a string to suit. Allow approximately half an inch for stretch in a Dacron string.
Once the bow stave is strung the limbs may change their tiller, that is the distance between the string and the bow stave in relationship with the upper and lower limb. It is preferable to have one eight to one quarter of an inch more in the upper limb, the measurement being taken about fourteen inches from the center of the handle. If needed mark stiff areas and sparingly remove more wood. Short draw the bow a few times and check the tiller. Once again if needed remove more wood. If a hinge or soft spot appears do not touch this area and instead work the stiff area either side to reduce the tension. Although sometimes laborious tillering is probably the most crucial step in crafting a good selfbow. Each time after removing wood restring the bow and short draw it a few times. Repeat the previous steps as often as necessary. When satisfied shoot 10 to 15 arrows into a butt at a 10 to 12 inch draw length. Repeat this procedure gradually in 2 inch increments. At each stage check the bows tiller and if needed remove wood from the offending limb to bring the bow back into tiller. During this settling in period do not draw the bow past the desired draw weight. At this stage with the bow in tiller it may be necessary to remove more wood to obtain the desired weight at the required draw length. Wooden bows can lose up to five pounds or more after being shot in. The drop in draw weight is usually consistent with string follow, that is the limbs travel a shorter distance when taken to full draw, therefore less energy is stored.
During the tillering process I work the tiller string up and down 10 to 15 times before going to the next slot. This helps the stave to get used to bending.
Hope this helps,
Daryl.
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Running Bear Eagle Eye
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Thanks alot Daryl your information is extremely helpful especially because it is in the tillering where i think i have been going wrong.
I bought a few boards of spotted gum today and am trying some of my new found knowlegde to them and hopefully i get a working bow.
Thanks everyone for your info
Daniel
I bought a few boards of spotted gum today and am trying some of my new found knowlegde to them and hopefully i get a working bow.
Thanks everyone for your info
Daniel
Hi, Daniel,
You mentioned that you have bought some more boards. If they are spotted gum or some other hardwood you may be better off making a flat bow rather than a full'D' section bow. I have found that full 'D' section bows are better if cut from air dried bush billets.If you would like a copy of the flat bow worksheet send a PM.
Daryl.
You mentioned that you have bought some more boards. If they are spotted gum or some other hardwood you may be better off making a flat bow rather than a full'D' section bow. I have found that full 'D' section bows are better if cut from air dried bush billets.If you would like a copy of the flat bow worksheet send a PM.
Daryl.