A New Hunting Bow And Change Out Of $25-00.
Moderator: Moderators
A New Hunting Bow And Change Out Of $25-00.
How many times do you hear that 'longbows are too cumbersome in the bush?'
The challenge was to make a shorter one that would be effective. To achieve this goal I used a Dean Torges type of adjustable form because this allows you to make all styles of bow on a single platform. With solid forms you need one for every style of bow.
The core laminations were glued both sides of the handle and tips added to strengthen the string grooves and then the back and belly bamboo laminations were added.
For the back and belly bamboo laminations the bigger the diameter of the pole the better which gives a flatter crown. It is advisable to have the plan of the bow marked out on the back core lamination so you can remove the excess before applying the final back and belly laminations. If need be make a cardboard template to enable you to mark out the shape on the outer laminations.
Cut the laminations to the template and remove the softer inner of the bamboo until you almost have a knife edge. By doing this you will get a natural taper in the lamination. The bamboo back is butt joined at the centre of the handle because I cut 'twins' so that the nodes are equally spaced on both limbs. Similarly I do the same with the belly lamination but cut in such a manner that these nodes fall in between the nodes on the back. With the adjustable form you can move the position of the posts and substitute different height posts to achieve the desired shape. I use 'F' clamps on the posts to pull the bow into the shape and small 'G' clamps on the limbs between the posts. You can make extra posts to suit each application.
If you are accurate with your laminations the bow will be 'almost tillered' when it comes out of the form. In your design allow up to an inch or so on the end posts to allow for string follow.
The bow is sixty one inches nock to nock, five and a half inch brace height and draws 50# @ 27". The core laminations are spotted gum (cut from a floor board) with the back and belly being bamboo. The hardwood and silver ash handle as well as the red ash tips came out of the off cuts box.
I had a bowyer friend test shoot it for me (as I have no shooting form at all) and he was able to group arrows in a five inch dot at thirty yards. He was surprised at the bows performance as he makes glass laminated longbows.
Not bad for a bow that cost under $25-00.
Daryl.
The challenge was to make a shorter one that would be effective. To achieve this goal I used a Dean Torges type of adjustable form because this allows you to make all styles of bow on a single platform. With solid forms you need one for every style of bow.
The core laminations were glued both sides of the handle and tips added to strengthen the string grooves and then the back and belly bamboo laminations were added.
For the back and belly bamboo laminations the bigger the diameter of the pole the better which gives a flatter crown. It is advisable to have the plan of the bow marked out on the back core lamination so you can remove the excess before applying the final back and belly laminations. If need be make a cardboard template to enable you to mark out the shape on the outer laminations.
Cut the laminations to the template and remove the softer inner of the bamboo until you almost have a knife edge. By doing this you will get a natural taper in the lamination. The bamboo back is butt joined at the centre of the handle because I cut 'twins' so that the nodes are equally spaced on both limbs. Similarly I do the same with the belly lamination but cut in such a manner that these nodes fall in between the nodes on the back. With the adjustable form you can move the position of the posts and substitute different height posts to achieve the desired shape. I use 'F' clamps on the posts to pull the bow into the shape and small 'G' clamps on the limbs between the posts. You can make extra posts to suit each application.
If you are accurate with your laminations the bow will be 'almost tillered' when it comes out of the form. In your design allow up to an inch or so on the end posts to allow for string follow.
The bow is sixty one inches nock to nock, five and a half inch brace height and draws 50# @ 27". The core laminations are spotted gum (cut from a floor board) with the back and belly being bamboo. The hardwood and silver ash handle as well as the red ash tips came out of the off cuts box.
I had a bowyer friend test shoot it for me (as I have no shooting form at all) and he was able to group arrows in a five inch dot at thirty yards. He was surprised at the bows performance as he makes glass laminated longbows.
Not bad for a bow that cost under $25-00.
Daryl.
- Attachments
-
- 01 Node Placement.jpg (9.39 KiB) Viewed 5867 times
-
- 03 Good Node.jpg (9.21 KiB) Viewed 6072 times
-
- 04 Bad Node.jpg (9.43 KiB) Viewed 6072 times
Last edited by greybeard on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Hi Daryl,
got a couple of q's regarding the composite replica in the other post.
Generally, how wide are your centre lams?
During the glue up process, do you have progressivley less extreme profiles, or do you keep the same profile throughout the entire process?
I have read Klopsteg's book, and while it enthuses me to make a hornbow, I just don't have the resources or the time to build one.
Cheers,
Dave
got a couple of q's regarding the composite replica in the other post.
Generally, how wide are your centre lams?
During the glue up process, do you have progressivley less extreme profiles, or do you keep the same profile throughout the entire process?
I have read Klopsteg's book, and while it enthuses me to make a hornbow, I just don't have the resources or the time to build one.
Cheers,
Dave
https://www.instagram.com/armworks_australia/
Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/
Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials
Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/
Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials
Hi! Dave,
For ease of glue up all my centre laminations are the same width, about 35mm. On the top core lamination I have a plan of the bow marked out so I can remove the excess before gluing the final laminations. If you have a template of the plan you can use this to shape the back and belly laminations before you remove the soft inner of the bamboo. This should help you get the taper on the laminations.
I am not quite sure what you mean by the same profile? Are you talking about the position of the posts on the form?
Regards, Daryl.
For ease of glue up all my centre laminations are the same width, about 35mm. On the top core lamination I have a plan of the bow marked out so I can remove the excess before gluing the final laminations. If you have a template of the plan you can use this to shape the back and belly laminations before you remove the soft inner of the bamboo. This should help you get the taper on the laminations.
I am not quite sure what you mean by the same profile? Are you talking about the position of the posts on the form?
Regards, Daryl.
Hi! Norman,
The poles I get are bleached (dried by the sun, I think and are yellow gold in colour) as poles also come in green from Asia. From memory I think I am using Mosso (not sure if the spelling is correct).
I get the poles from;
Bamboo Australia Pty. Ltd.
1171 Kenilworth Road
Belli Park Qld
(7) 5447-0299
If contacting them be specific as to the end use. They supply other bowyers and should be able to supply the correct ones.
Daryl.
The poles I get are bleached (dried by the sun, I think and are yellow gold in colour) as poles also come in green from Asia. From memory I think I am using Mosso (not sure if the spelling is correct).
I get the poles from;
Bamboo Australia Pty. Ltd.
1171 Kenilworth Road
Belli Park Qld
(7) 5447-0299
If contacting them be specific as to the end use. They supply other bowyers and should be able to supply the correct ones.
Daryl.
Daryl,
Yes, I mean the position of the posts. ie: are the posts in the same place throughout the whole process, or do you move them so that the shape of the unfinished bow is less extreme with each glue up?
Scientifically, and mathematically, the best results are acheived by having the centre laminations glued into extreme shape, with progressively less extreme shape with each successive lamination.
Not that I want you to feel that I'm lecturing you or anything, I mean, your bamboo composites are lightyears ahead of what I would have been able to do.
Cheers,
Dave
Yes, I mean the position of the posts. ie: are the posts in the same place throughout the whole process, or do you move them so that the shape of the unfinished bow is less extreme with each glue up?
Scientifically, and mathematically, the best results are acheived by having the centre laminations glued into extreme shape, with progressively less extreme shape with each successive lamination.
Not that I want you to feel that I'm lecturing you or anything, I mean, your bamboo composites are lightyears ahead of what I would have been able to do.
Cheers,
Dave
https://www.instagram.com/armworks_australia/
Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/
Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials
Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/
Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials
Hi! Dave,
The following refers to the static tip 'Asian' type bow.
I am neither scientifically nor mathematically inclined. Yes I have experimented with moving the end posts in, not out during the glue ups the theory being that by pushing the tips further forward this is where their memory will be set and will want to return to that position when the arrow is loosed. It also helps to reduce string follow. One theory is that the stress levels vary between laminations and produces a smoother shooting bow. Unfortunately I do not have the scientific means to test this theory but the proof in the pudding, how does it shoot in the paddock?
Daryl.
The following refers to the static tip 'Asian' type bow.
I am neither scientifically nor mathematically inclined. Yes I have experimented with moving the end posts in, not out during the glue ups the theory being that by pushing the tips further forward this is where their memory will be set and will want to return to that position when the arrow is loosed. It also helps to reduce string follow. One theory is that the stress levels vary between laminations and produces a smoother shooting bow. Unfortunately I do not have the scientific means to test this theory but the proof in the pudding, how does it shoot in the paddock?
Daryl.
Hi,
Here are some photos of two new bows that I've just finished.
The recurve is as it came out of the form so it may need some tillering after shooting a few more arrows.
The short longbow is 60" n to n, and the core has two spotted gum laminations each 2.5 mm with bamboo back and belly.
The recurve is 62" n to n, and the core has three spotted gum laminations each being 1.65 mm with bamboo back and belly.
Although the recurve took a little string follow I was surprised that the recurved tips held their shape. Once again the handle section and tip overlays were made from off cuts.
Daryl.
Here are some photos of two new bows that I've just finished.
The recurve is as it came out of the form so it may need some tillering after shooting a few more arrows.
The short longbow is 60" n to n, and the core has two spotted gum laminations each 2.5 mm with bamboo back and belly.
The recurve is 62" n to n, and the core has three spotted gum laminations each being 1.65 mm with bamboo back and belly.
Although the recurve took a little string follow I was surprised that the recurved tips held their shape. Once again the handle section and tip overlays were made from off cuts.
Daryl.
- Attachments
-
- David trying my new bow.jpg (35.36 KiB) Viewed 5755 times
Last edited by greybeard on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 62
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 4:53 pm
Hi,
The bow dimensions are as follows. The dimension formatting went funny in the post, appears it can't handle spaceing. Hope you can interpert.
Longbow. Recurve.
Width at fadeout. 1¼" 1¼"
Mid limb. 1" 1-1/16"
String nocks. 5/8" 5/8"
The handle sections were kept to 11" to get more working limb and both bows came out just on 40# @ 28. Also when holding the bow the knuckle is in line with the arrow shelf and seems to give the bow more pointability. The bow designs will handle heavier draw weights but my main aim is to produce a bow with acceptable performance that oldies like me can spend a day on the ranges and survive. Also, there seems to be a move away from glass to bows using more traditional materials.
Daryl.
Gary, I will bring them to the Corrival if not sold in the meantime.
The bow dimensions are as follows. The dimension formatting went funny in the post, appears it can't handle spaceing. Hope you can interpert.
Longbow. Recurve.
Width at fadeout. 1¼" 1¼"
Mid limb. 1" 1-1/16"
String nocks. 5/8" 5/8"
The handle sections were kept to 11" to get more working limb and both bows came out just on 40# @ 28. Also when holding the bow the knuckle is in line with the arrow shelf and seems to give the bow more pointability. The bow designs will handle heavier draw weights but my main aim is to produce a bow with acceptable performance that oldies like me can spend a day on the ranges and survive. Also, there seems to be a move away from glass to bows using more traditional materials.
Daryl.
Gary, I will bring them to the Corrival if not sold in the meantime.
Last edited by greybeard on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Nice job on both bows Greybeard. I like the special touch on the laminated risers. Great to see bamboo being all natural used as backing and belly. It appears that the bamboo on the back was glued in two separate pieces? I have the same materials ready to work on a new bow -could you advise what thickness you used on the bamboo?
Hi Archangel,
The thickness of the bamboo used in the back and belly laminations have always been a bit of a problem in respect to pole diameter and at times the pole being slightly oval.
I always shape the glued up core to near finished size and then transpose this shape to the bamboo. Once the bamboo has been shaped I spoke shave away the soft inner of the bamboo until the edges are down to 1mm or less. It is a bit of a lucky dip as pole diameter plays a big part in determining the thickness. High crowned bamboo from smaller diameter poles can be scraped down to a certain degree but you must be careful not to scrape away too many of the power fibres and that ultimately limb width will determine the height of the crown.
I do use separate laminations for both back and belly laminations. Because of node placement on the pole I cut 'twins' from the top of the pole for the back and the belly lamination 'twins' are cut from nearer the base of the pole. These laminations are cut over length so that I get better node placement between the back and belly. The closer node spacing goes to the handle. With a little trial and error you will get it right.
Hopes this helps,
Daryl.
The thickness of the bamboo used in the back and belly laminations have always been a bit of a problem in respect to pole diameter and at times the pole being slightly oval.
I always shape the glued up core to near finished size and then transpose this shape to the bamboo. Once the bamboo has been shaped I spoke shave away the soft inner of the bamboo until the edges are down to 1mm or less. It is a bit of a lucky dip as pole diameter plays a big part in determining the thickness. High crowned bamboo from smaller diameter poles can be scraped down to a certain degree but you must be careful not to scrape away too many of the power fibres and that ultimately limb width will determine the height of the crown.
I do use separate laminations for both back and belly laminations. Because of node placement on the pole I cut 'twins' from the top of the pole for the back and the belly lamination 'twins' are cut from nearer the base of the pole. These laminations are cut over length so that I get better node placement between the back and belly. The closer node spacing goes to the handle. With a little trial and error you will get it right.
Hopes this helps,
Daryl.
Last edited by greybeard on Thu Nov 03, 2011 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi,
This reply is in the wrong posting but as I am suffering from crafts disease I can't remember who asked the question.
Anyway it is to do with Z splicing.
Hi Z Splice,
It is probably easy for me to say but Z splicing is relatively simple. To date, I have done about eight spliced handles and have had no problem with any of them. Keep the saw cuts as accurate as possible and do not sand them smooth as this will reduce the effectiveness of the finished bond. When the billets are glued I tap them together and when aligned clamp the spliced area at the centre and at each end of the splice. If you wish, before clamping you can put blocks under the tips of the billets to build in back set which will help reduce string follow. Most two pack glues do have gap filling properties and remember we are not making violins or grand pianos. As I do not know how you are cutting your splices the cuts are done back to belly not edge to edge.
I have attached some photos that may be of assistance.
Hope the above helps,
Daryl.
This reply is in the wrong posting but as I am suffering from crafts disease I can't remember who asked the question.
Anyway it is to do with Z splicing.
Hi Z Splice,
It is probably easy for me to say but Z splicing is relatively simple. To date, I have done about eight spliced handles and have had no problem with any of them. Keep the saw cuts as accurate as possible and do not sand them smooth as this will reduce the effectiveness of the finished bond. When the billets are glued I tap them together and when aligned clamp the spliced area at the centre and at each end of the splice. If you wish, before clamping you can put blocks under the tips of the billets to build in back set which will help reduce string follow. Most two pack glues do have gap filling properties and remember we are not making violins or grand pianos. As I do not know how you are cutting your splices the cuts are done back to belly not edge to edge.
I have attached some photos that may be of assistance.
Hope the above helps,
Daryl.
- Attachments
-
- 3 Z Splice On Flatbow..jpg (8.14 KiB) Viewed 5619 times
-
- 2 Z Splice Bush Billet.jpg (14.12 KiB) Viewed 5619 times
-
- 1 Z Splice.jpg (10.09 KiB) Viewed 5619 times
Good pictures there of the Z splice.
Greybeard, is that you in one of the photos, WITHOUT your grey beard?
Dave
Greybeard, is that you in one of the photos, WITHOUT your grey beard?
Dave
https://www.instagram.com/armworks_australia/
Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/
Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials
Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/
Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials
THAT'S more like it!
Good looking bow too.
Dave
Good looking bow too.
Dave
https://www.instagram.com/armworks_australia/
Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/
Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials
Bow making courses, knife making courses, armour making courses and more:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/
Articles to start making bows:
http://www.tharwavalleyforge.com/index. ... /tutorials