When speaking of different bows the statements,Stable,and shoots were it,s pointed are often used.Now what I would like to know, is just what is really ment when this is applyed to longbow design?.
I wish to have a longbow made shortly.The Bowyer I hope will be making
this bow offers bows in Reverse,back set,and straight handles.I currently
shoot a straight handled bow.To my limited knowlage the reverse handle
would appear to be the most stable and maybe even have this pointability
thing.I have NO interest in speed,the subject bores me to tears.I want a bow that will shoot straight,nothing else.Soooooo,can somebody explain these terms to me.
Thanks,,Jack.
Handle style
Moderator: Moderators
I'll pass this one over to the more knowledgeable, but would like to make the obervation that I shoot a recurve more straight up and down, I think because of the handle. My longbows I shoot with considerable cant - which has the advantage of making spine less of a critical issue - and I think I do this because of the straight handle: it seems to somehow require a different hold, with the heel down, and more cant.
Interesting topic, this. Thanks Jack!
cheers,
Erron
Interesting topic, this. Thanks Jack!
cheers,
Erron
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Stickbow Hunter
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Jack,
I think this subject is one that is mostly a matter of personal preference. Each of us will like a particular style of handle over another. In saying this I think bow design will also, to some degree, play a part in what grip type is preferred.
Me personally, I shoot longbows, and I like what is termed a straight handle. I do however have a very slight concave surface on the belly side of the handle. I find the part of the bow hand just behind the palm sits naturally into this. Even though the concave is slight it helps greatly in making you grip the bow the same each time. If you don't it just doesn't seem to feel right.
I feel this type of grip allows the bow to be gripped tightly and in line with your forearm. This is very important to me because it means when I'm drawing the bow the strain (pull) is against my whole bow arm and not the wrist joint.
Some people grip their bows out of alignment with their forearm therefore placing the strain on the wrist joint. On drawing the bow the wrist joint gives/buckles (moves left or right) under the strain and this causes them to torque the bow left or right which in turn causes inconsistant shooting.
I also like to have my handles made so that the shelf is virtually level with the top of my hand. This means that the arrow is just about sitting on my hand. When shooting the bow the arrow is then virtually in the same position as if I was pointing my index finger.
When I shoot I lean into my bow some, have my bow canted and my bow arm is very slightly bent.
When you combine all these things it gives the bow what I would term pointability. The bow and arrow combination becomes an extention of my bow arm as it were. Where I look is where the arrow is pointing.
Stability - in very general terms means how easily a bow tends to move around when shot. Again, very generally, a longer bow will be more stable than a shorter bow - a 62" recurve will be more stable to shoot than a 56" one and a 68" longbow will be more stable than a 62" etc. Olympic archers shoot very long recurves because they want stability. Once again bow design will play a part in all of this this though.
Sorry for the long post but it is easier to say than to put into words. I hope what I have said makes sense and might help you a little.
By the way mate, I feel speed is VERY important. If the arra aint movin' it aint gonna penetrate!!!
Jeff
I think this subject is one that is mostly a matter of personal preference. Each of us will like a particular style of handle over another. In saying this I think bow design will also, to some degree, play a part in what grip type is preferred.
Me personally, I shoot longbows, and I like what is termed a straight handle. I do however have a very slight concave surface on the belly side of the handle. I find the part of the bow hand just behind the palm sits naturally into this. Even though the concave is slight it helps greatly in making you grip the bow the same each time. If you don't it just doesn't seem to feel right.
I feel this type of grip allows the bow to be gripped tightly and in line with your forearm. This is very important to me because it means when I'm drawing the bow the strain (pull) is against my whole bow arm and not the wrist joint.
Some people grip their bows out of alignment with their forearm therefore placing the strain on the wrist joint. On drawing the bow the wrist joint gives/buckles (moves left or right) under the strain and this causes them to torque the bow left or right which in turn causes inconsistant shooting.
I also like to have my handles made so that the shelf is virtually level with the top of my hand. This means that the arrow is just about sitting on my hand. When shooting the bow the arrow is then virtually in the same position as if I was pointing my index finger.
When I shoot I lean into my bow some, have my bow canted and my bow arm is very slightly bent.
When you combine all these things it gives the bow what I would term pointability. The bow and arrow combination becomes an extention of my bow arm as it were. Where I look is where the arrow is pointing.
Stability - in very general terms means how easily a bow tends to move around when shot. Again, very generally, a longer bow will be more stable than a shorter bow - a 62" recurve will be more stable to shoot than a 56" one and a 68" longbow will be more stable than a 62" etc. Olympic archers shoot very long recurves because they want stability. Once again bow design will play a part in all of this this though.
Sorry for the long post but it is easier to say than to put into words. I hope what I have said makes sense and might help you a little.
By the way mate, I feel speed is VERY important. If the arra aint movin' it aint gonna penetrate!!!
Jeff
Last edited by Stickbow Hunter on Wed Sep 03, 2003 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ripper post Jeff!
I think that indicates how natural the concave feels, and so has become second nature to me.
thanks,
Erron
- Yes, that's right, you do! I've been shooting your bows over 3 years and I'd FORGOTTEN that!I do however have a very slight concave surface on the belly side of the handle.
I think that indicates how natural the concave feels, and so has become second nature to me. thanks,
Erron
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Jackrat
Jeff,Thanks for your reply.It was a good read.
When I said speed was not important to me, I was trying to keep away from the subject, because even tho, it is a must some people tend to labour over it and then it gets in the way of the real issue.
Things like comfort,eaze of use,and pointability just seem more important
to me.After all, reading the different Boyers sites it would seem they all make fast bows.So that leaves looks,feel, and other more personal things
to consider.I had a Jerry Hill wild cat, that was resently stolen.When I do buy another bow the over all performance and feel of that bow is what I would like to achive.I will not be buying another american bow,No slight intended to American boyers, but by the time their bows get to NZ the price has become to much for me.
By the way Jeff, Do you have a web site.
Thanks again,,Jack.
When I said speed was not important to me, I was trying to keep away from the subject, because even tho, it is a must some people tend to labour over it and then it gets in the way of the real issue.
Things like comfort,eaze of use,and pointability just seem more important
to me.After all, reading the different Boyers sites it would seem they all make fast bows.So that leaves looks,feel, and other more personal things
to consider.I had a Jerry Hill wild cat, that was resently stolen.When I do buy another bow the over all performance and feel of that bow is what I would like to achive.I will not be buying another american bow,No slight intended to American boyers, but by the time their bows get to NZ the price has become to much for me.
By the way Jeff, Do you have a web site.
Thanks again,,Jack.
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Stickbow Hunter
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Just ask Erron, he'll agree I'm sure. 
JeffJust say the word, send photos and accompanying text, and I'll get you a web site before you can say "who was that masked Mexican???"
I'll be happy to host it on Ozbow, too, if you like.
Now stop making excuses and start making bows!!! The world needs more bowyers, especially if we start to promote this Trad thing the way we intend....
the Mex.
I'll be happy to host it on Ozbow, too, if you like.
Now stop making excuses and start making bows!!! The world needs more bowyers, especially if we start to promote this Trad thing the way we intend....
the Mex.
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Glenn Newell
Jack, as Jeff said it is mainly a personal preferance to handle style. My preferance is for the foward handle or reverse handle as it is also called because it does seem to give a natural piontability feel to the bow, but handle styles aside the limb design is very important. It's the limb design and tillering of the limb that will dictate smoothness of draw, stacking, hand shock and how much energy will be stored in the limb which gets transferred into the arrow as speed and penetration.
A poorly designed limb will stack and a limb that is stacking when you are coming to full draw will probably have bad hand shock and poor penetration....Glenn....
A poorly designed limb will stack and a limb that is stacking when you are coming to full draw will probably have bad hand shock and poor penetration....Glenn....
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Jackrat
Thanks Glen, With the reverse handle longbow of the type you make,how much choise is avalible in handle shape?IE,Dished,locator,straight.
Also if a bowyer cannot meet the customer,is it possible to gauge hand size from an out line drawn on paper or would they be more likley to make a standard size grip? I ask this because my Jerry hill had a large grip for my hand size,my Samick had a large semi, locator,dished errrrrr,thing.I took a wood rasp to the Samick, then wraped it with colf club handle wrap.It is now quite good but it is still a Samick and was only ever ment as a back up Bow anyway.
Thanks again for your input,,,Jack.
Also if a bowyer cannot meet the customer,is it possible to gauge hand size from an out line drawn on paper or would they be more likley to make a standard size grip? I ask this because my Jerry hill had a large grip for my hand size,my Samick had a large semi, locator,dished errrrrr,thing.I took a wood rasp to the Samick, then wraped it with colf club handle wrap.It is now quite good but it is still a Samick and was only ever ment as a back up Bow anyway.
Thanks again for your input,,,Jack.
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Stickbow Hunter
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Glenn Newell
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Glenn Newell
Jack here are some photos of the riser section of my reverse handle longbow. I use a three point locator system with a thumb rest , palm swell and an index finger indentation on the front of the riser. I also like to use an offset handle to give the archer more string clearance and I also cut the sight window closer to centre to reduce the archers paradox.
You can have any shaped riser you like, but everyone finds the type of handle pictured the most comfortable. When I cant meet the archer I do ask for a tracing of the bow hand and I also need the measurement from the middle finger to the top of the index finger so I can locate the shelf properly and have the arrow shooting off the hand. Erron the plaster cast is not neccessary just a tracing of the hand is all that is needed.
You can have any shaped riser you like, but everyone finds the type of handle pictured the most comfortable. When I cant meet the archer I do ask for a tracing of the bow hand and I also need the measurement from the middle finger to the top of the index finger so I can locate the shelf properly and have the arrow shooting off the hand. Erron the plaster cast is not neccessary just a tracing of the hand is all that is needed.
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- forward handle1 .jpg (97.31 KiB) Viewed 3848 times
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- forward handle2.jpg (95.25 KiB) Viewed 3848 times
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- foward handle3.jpg (94.31 KiB) Viewed 3848 times
Last edited by Glenn Newell on Thu Sep 04, 2003 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Glenn Newell
The bow is very close to centre shot Erron, just makes it easier for people to find the correctly spined arrows or I should say you can shoot a greater range of arrow spines, you can just build the sight out to suit if the arrows work out a bit under spined. These days with the cost of arrow shafts it makes it very expensive to discard shafts. Gone are the days when you could buy 1,000 p.o.c. shafts for $100.00 find the ones you wanted and sell the rest. Oh for some hind sight 30 years ago...Glenn...
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Jackrat
