Bow customers beware

[Sabinus]

Hi guys,

I commissioned a bow to be built for me a while back, and it hasn't been the most clear cut experience.

I'm still waiting for my bow, and indeed can't even get into contact with the bowyer via any method.

My caution is to choose your custom bowyer with utmost care, and set extremely clear terms and conditions with them regarding completion times and methods of contact.

Ask around of others about their experiences with the bowyer you've chosen, and go in with your eyes wide open.

Darren

[UPTHETOP]

Sorry to hear you having that type of trouble Sabinus, hope it all works out for you.

Cheers Wayno

[Sabinus]

Yeah thanks Wayno, hope so too.

[bigbob]

This sounds familiar. I think something similar happened last year, same state too.

[Sabinus]

Is that right BigBob - I wish I'd heard about what you've heard about! Sent you a PM.

[motty]

I'll bring this back to the top of the page, not to whinge but to back up the original sentiment.
I ordered a Bigfoot bow which was 4 months late arriving. A few months later the timber shrank and cracked all the glue lines. The advice from the bowyer was to fill them up with superglue and sand it back because that's what he will do if I send it back. A new riser was out of the question. Sent it back, had him refinish it and send it back at my cost.
Since changing to left hand I traded the bow back to him with extra to get a left hand bow made. Surely it couldn't happen again. 5 Months overdue the bow turns up and all is fine for 3 weeks. A hair line crack appears through the shelf and down the handle. Same advice and no replacement.
Check what warranty the bowyer offers. Like Sabinus said ask around before sending your money, especialy overseas.
If I were to get another custom ( unlikely ) it will be from an aussie bowyer well known to Ozbow.
Motty

[Gringa Bows]

Sorry to hear you guy's have had these dramas with your bows,i believe its always a good idea to buy from aussie bowyers ,keep the money in oz our products are as good or better then overseas and i believe that most aussie bow builders will bend over backwards to make sure customers are happy with their product.

[Nezwin]

I think this might be the same guy who took a year to get me my arm guard & knife... He does great work - really great work - but the very nature of commissioning things from people who build as a hobby means that they don't have the time to rush orders. I know I'm the same when people (occasionally) ask me to build bows. Still, at the very least it's better to communicate with people who have given you money.

I hope you got it sorted though, I'm sure you won't be disappointed with the end product if we're talking about the same guy.

[clinglish]

It's always a shame to read about this type of thing, I believe the essential thing is communication.
I agree that there are many great aussie bowyers but I don't think they are any better or worse than those overseas.
I buy all my bows from one bow Company and I have a long term relationship with the bowyer which really helps.
I think if you ask a lot of questions at the beginning and both parties are aware of the timeframes and the level of quality expected then these issues don't tend to come up as often.

[Sabinus]

Newzin I think you're on track. Things aren't just 'slow' now - as fairly raised, a 'hobbyist' may not always have all the time they'd like to give to their passion. I'm one of these people myself, as you may be too. But once you have accepted part or full payment as deposit for goods, you have just made a business agreement.
This blokes avoiding all attempts at contact. I pestered him into answering his phone a while back - he's not pursuing his 'hobby' in any form now, and promised return of my 50% deposit by um, a few weeks ago. And is still dodging his phone. I'm surely not alone in being let down by this bloke, and the great shame is his work was indeed, Beeeautiful. But - Talent is cheap. It needs to be combined with other qualities like fairness, stickability, and some personal honour, to amount to more than a flash in the pan, and forging good relations with people.
The good that's come out of this is that I'm just going to make my own laminate bows from now. Starting with a straight Hill style and we'll go from there.

[Ian Turner]

This is a disgrace and all potential buyers need to beware.
IMO to accept a persons hard earned $$$$ and not even have the decency to say sorry no can do and return the funds never mind not communicating with the customer is beyond reproach.
I personally would never deal with an overseas bowyer due to this and other issues I have seen and heard.
Cheers and I hope you get your refund soon mate for this guy to keep your deposit is woeful.
Cheers

[Sabinus]

Hey Ian, thanks for the words of support. You should know though, that this 'bowyer' is as local as me. More and more people are becoming aware of who he is - once known for real top-shelf bows, now known for being a dishonorable piker.
There are many good bowyers around, including a few blokes who are regulars on this forum. If you choose to commission a bow from someone, pm a couple of regulars on this forum and ensure he/she is legit, or not. It's much harder to find a crook than an honest maker - guess I was just lucky:). Lots of great local work being done, and it's great to support small business!!

[bigbob]

If a bowyer can't stand by his word then he doesn't amount to much. I nearly went mad with anxiety when a bow of mine went 'missing ' in transit down south. It took nealy a month to track it down and I am sure the owner must have got sick of my explanations as to where it was. It was entirely the fault of the courier company but I still felt terribly guilty. I know nearly all the bowyers who are REGULAR visitors and contributors to this site and would personally vouch for any of them,. We are all only as good as our last bow, and one negative outcome will destroy myriad good issues. I sure hope you get some positive outcome.

[Sabinus]

Bob, don't worry mate, one bad egg won't spoil the bunch. The stupendous work we can regularly see on these pages is almost always backed up with REGULAR contributions and activity on this forum by the craftsperson in question. Although I don't know you Bob, it's clear to me that you are trustworthy. You are always visible and active on these pages and have been over an extended period of time. Same as another 4-5 individuals who spring immediately to mind.
Commissioning a custom bow can be a fantastic collaborative experience and is a great way to get exactly what you want, and learn more about bows, archery, and other people all at the same time. In this day and age it's incredibly important that bespoke crafts are thriving with makers and customers. Traditional archery is one of the wonderful little worlds that are still perfectly suited to and accommodating of hand crafted items.
One of my older passions is silversmithing and handmaking jewellery - I did a university degree in it. For a job however, I 'make' jewellery on a computer screen, and then it is 3D printed by a machine..........I fancy myself a maker, yet my hands are embarrassingly clean and free of callouses from pushing a computer mouse around for hours each day.
So long live traditional archery, and long live hand-makers, who can and do imbue their work with a magic and love that machines fortunately will never be able to.
I reckon my cash is gone, but the positive that I've already taken from this situation is that I've ordered my first bow-kit and am prepping to get started on supplying myself with bows from here on. These hands of mine are just too bloody clean and too bloody soft...I've got to remedy that!!!

[bigbob]

Mate if you need any advise as you get started then just give a yell. that is how nearly all of us on here started.Unfortunately once you have built a successful bow you are doomed, doomed to forever forsake all other pursuits in trying to turn wood dust into bows!!! You will then the necessary grime and glue over those pristine hands of yours!! LOL

[Sabinus]

bigbob, Thanks for the generous offer mate. Whatever happens will be chronicled on these pages in some form.........

[mikaluger]

Sabinus,
Just wanted to let you know you are not alone. I am pretty sure we have been shunted by the same fella. Unfortunately, I too have been left in the "lurch ", to put it mildly. I did a bow swap with him, an agreement between fellow bowyers, and sent him a fine bow. The bow I sent him lifted a splinter on the back (repairable)......... so I made another bow...........and sent it to him. He was supposed to send the original bow back to me, and one of his fine bows............ I am still waiting. That was 2 years ago now............nothing.

I have been silent until now, and to be frank, have moved on............ lesson learned...........I just wish I had those bows back, they were two of the best bows I have done, that pangs a bit.
At least I can make some more.

All the best mate,
Mick.

[Ian Turner]

Hi guys i think its about time this person was named so that no one else gets caught.
Money is hard come by in this day and age.
Cheers

[cmoore]

Why wouldn't you name them?
By not doing so you're just protecting them!. . . and allowing others to fall victim

Political correctness?

[greybeard]

Hi guys i think its about time this person was named so that no one else gets caught.
Money is hard come by in this day and age.
Cheers

Why wouldn't you name them?
By not doing so you're just protecting them!. . . and allowing others to fall victim

Political correctness?

Perhaps so, but has anyone considered the outcome should the ‘named person’ instigate legal action against individual members and Ozbow?

Daryl.

[cmoore]

How **** is the world when you can't even oust a no gooder without potentially getting sued for defamation of character. ......looks like the 'bad' guys win

GAME OVER MAN! GAME OVER

[Sabinus]

Hey Mick, bad luck mate. Very sad to see such a talented individual (and formerly good bloke) go rotten like he has. Now that would be something for me to aspire to - make bows good enough that you and I could play swaps one day.....I'm on it!

Cmoore - with respect mate that's all a bit dramatic. Message me and I'll tell you in Capitals who I'm talking about. Same goes for anyone else. Apart from Daryl's entirely valid point, This bloke frankly alarmed me when I last managed to get him on the phone - if what I suspect about him is right he's not someone it would be wise to provoke. I don't think he knows where I live, but I've used a combo of facebook and google earth and I know where he lives, so anything is possible.

Deal with who you know or research 'em till you know 'em.