Chinese Elm goes ok!

[hunterguy1991]

Evening folks,

I've been at it once again!! Mate of mine acquired some staves of Chinese elm about 8 months back and my research lead me to believe they were dry and one ready to be turned into a 9/10ths broken stick with a string on it. Certainly felt dry while working on them.

As per usual with my experiments with new timber, I made a warbow! I started with dimensions that would, in a lam bow go, about 130-140lbs to get a feel for what the timber can take.

This bow ended up 80" ntn and 85lb@30 inches which was a little disappointing for the size and thickness of the bow, and also set a bit more than what I would have liked but there are no frets in the belly at all. Maybe its not fully dry, maybe its not dense enough to cope with the compression, who knows??... However, it was great fun to make and good practise for working self bows, what with all their bumps and twists etc.

I will do my best to get a few photos of the bow tomorrow before I head out for the weekend to show you all.

Next experiment might be a flatbow of sorts, maybe even a Holmegaard bow to see what happens with wider thinner limbs.

Its a nice timber to work and responds pretty well to draw knife and spoke shave, though you have to watch which way the grain 'wants' to go when working it. the Shinto saw rasp however hoons through it, so tillering was quick and easy.

Colin

[perry]

Looking forward to the Pics Colin

Way back Cliff and I played with Chinese Elm, nice splalted grain and works well in Pyramid Limb Flat bows. Cliff made a Penobscott that Shot pretty well. It makes an excellent heavy Arrow Timber.

regards Jacko

[hunterguy1991]

Here you go Perry!


One at 30 inches...

30 inches.jpg (51.74 KiB) Viewed 5586 times

To my eye the left tip is a tiny bit stiff in the last 4 -6 inches and the right limb is stiff right in close to the handle and the same as the left tip... will give it a bit of a scrape when I'm home again and have time to work on it. Not half bad for an hour or so in the first place tho I reckon.

Colin

[Hamish]

Very nice. I haven't used elm before but if you aren't happy with the set a lot of Nth Hemisphere bowyers will heat treat a little reflex(even in an already tillered bow with too much set). I have had friends do the same with osage, and it turns an average bow into a good one.
Hamish.

[hunterguy1991]

Cheers Hamish!

have already considered that mate. I haven't tried it before but this bow could be a good contender for the treatment I reckon. Need to read up on how it's done a little more first tho.

I will fine tune the tiller first then do the heat treatment then check and adjust the tiller if it needs it.

Colin

[greybeard]

Colin, the results for Chinese elm look promising.

.......acquired some staves of Chinese elm about 8 months back.......

Do you know if the timber was harvested locally?

......This bow ended up 80" ntn and 85lb@30 inches which was a little disappointing for the size and thickness of the bow......,

Similar results to the lemonwood I have been experimenting with.

Found this on the net whilst checking timber properties.

"Donald J. Leopold (1980) raises concern that many experts including nurserymen and foresters mistakenly refer to Ulmus pumila, the rapidly growing, disease-ridden, relatively short-lived, weak-wooded Siberian elm, as "Chinese elm." This has given the true "Chinese elm" an undeserved bad reputation. Fortunately, the two elms are very distinct and different species.[10] Among other obvious differences, with age the Siberian elm's bark becomes deeply ridged and furrowed, and possesses a very rough, greyish-black appearance, while the Chinese elm's smooth bark becomes flaky and blotchy, exposing very distinctive, light-coloured mottling. Hence the appealing name, lace bark elm, as a common name for the real Chinese elm."

Daryl.

[hunterguy1991]

Thanks Daryl,

The staves were cut about 15 minutes from home and I have access to as much as I like as its a declared pest. Private property but the owner has said I'm welcome to all I want and he'll even cut it for me. I would be more than happy to get a stave or two for you to play around with.

I think the lemonwood would have performed far better using the dimensions I did as long as it didn't lift splinters. Any lemonwood I use in bows will be in laminates that are backed with something, hickory or bamboo.

Still, it is a selfbow and it didn't break so that's a result as far as I'm concerned. As I have another stave here I will try heat treating the belly on this one to see how that goes.

[Nezwin]

Any lemonwood I use in bows will be in laminates that are backed with something, hickory or bamboo.

Colin,

I don't usually weigh in on your ELB threads as I know even less about ELB's than I do AFB's but your comment there peaked my interest.

One of the historic comments on Lemonwood was the lack of consideration of grain required for a good, unbacked bow. I've only cut a few lams from a 1m section so I've not a lot of experience but I am interested in why you would exclusively back Lemonwood in future? You've found it lifts splinters easily? Or is it purely because of the low performance per mass unit?

BTW, great bow made very efficiently & quickly. I know who I'll be going to for advice if/when I build an ELB...

[hunterguy1991]

Firstly cheers Neil!!

Would be happy to show you my process if you can make it up here for a day.

I've yet to try lemonwood as a selfbow but have my suspicions on it pulling splinters at the weights I make them. This is one reason that I will be inclined to back the bows.

The other, and Daryl may have had the same experience, But lemonwood can tend to set a little, so backing it allows me to add performance to the now I'm building. For example, my 100lb lemonwood bow that I glued with reflex and after tillering has no set (stays dead straight after unbracing) can out shoot a 120lb ash bow I have which has taken set.

I think for not I will stick to split stave bows for self bows and milled timbers in laminates for more performance... Still dying to get a yew stave tho!! Haha

Colin

[Forester]

Hi Colin - very interesting reading about your good experience with Chinese Elm. I have heaps of it on my place, including some nice straight bits, but I have not bothered to try and make anything out of it before because it rots so quickly on the ground. Just thought that meant it would be too weak somehow. After reading your posts I will grab a bit for myself to try, but there is heaps there and if anyone is interested in some I would be more than happy to give them as much wood as they wanted for bows. Some is in large trees, and some is in straight saplings.
Cheers, Tim

[hunterguy1991]

I would say that the chinese elm I had (if it even actually is, few of the others on here are sceptical as well as myself) will make a bow but not a very good one... The bow here has dimensions similar to a bow nearly double this ones draw weight when made from laminates or a denser timber so this stuff, whatever it is, doesn't hold much weight and sets quite a bit.

The only way to really see is to test some and see what you get just rip the bark off and theres your back then off you go.

Colin

[Gringa Bows]

looking good mate

[perry]

Tim in my experience Chinese Elm makes very good Arrow Shafts.

regards Perry

[Forester]

Thanks for the clarification Colin. Good on you for getting a decent bow out of it, but it sounds like this wood makes worse bows than other woods - and given that I probably make worse bows than other blokes, it is probably a bad combination and I should avoid it .
Thanks for the tip about the arrows though Perry, I have got so much of this wood around that it would be good to use some. I might just cut arrow lengths out of some straight trunks and see if I can split or saw out some shafts.