ILF bows?

[Mick Smith]

I'm seriously thinking that my next bow will be an ILF. Even though I realise that ILF bows aren't accepted at most trad events, I think I'd get enough use out of one by using it to indulge in my other archery pursuits, such as general club shooting and hunting. I could possibly still use an ILF bow at some trad shoots, however I realise I wouldn't be eligible for any prizes, not that that would be likely to happen anyway.

I've never been attracted to these bows in the past, but they're now growing on me. I like the way you can match and mix different brand risers and limbs. I like the way I could buy a new set of limbs for a fraction of the price of a new bow. ILF gear is about as flexible as it could possibly be.

These days, I find I'm moving away from my love of beautiful handcrafted timber bows and more into the joys of plain shooting arrows for fun. I'm more into practicality and efficiency over looks. Generally, something that has great practicality and efficiency will generate it's own good looks anyway.

I think it would make better sense to buy a good riser for a start and then buy the limbs as they're needed. I tend to prefer longer bows over shorter bows, so I think I would like to go for a longer riser of about 23 or 25 inches. I really like the look of Win&Win carbon risers, like this one ... http://www.archeryshop.com.au/p/8865322 ... ck-rh.html Eventually, I'd like to pair up this riser with a pair of Border Hex 6 or 7 limbs.

I'm fully aware that buying a new bow will not make me a better archer. This is not the reason why I'm considering buying an ILF bow. Many people buy new gear, thinking it will improve their scores. I'm not that deluded to think that this would work for me.

I know very little about ILF bows, having had no experience with them at all. I know we have a few members here on Ozbow who use these bows all of the time and I'm hoping one of them might chime in with some advice and recommendations.

I will still keep on shooting my much loved non ILF bows for as long as I can, but I know that as I'm getting older and with my permanently damaged shoulder injury, it won't be long and I'll be looking to go down in draw weight yet again. At least with an ILF bow, I will only have to buy new limbs, rather than a whole new bow.

[motty]

Hi Mick.
I decided on an ILF bow when I changed over to left hand. Not knowing the poundage I could handle or bow length or limb style I would like, I didn't want to go down the buy and try road of selling on bows that don't fit me. Got a second hand Trad Tech Titan 17" from our classifieds here. On my third set of limbs now after selling some shorts that didn't suit me. Adjusting for three under or split release and poundage for draw length is easy ( spend some time reading the manual first ). Metal riser tapped for rest, quiver, fishing reel and grip style that won't crack like 3 customs I've had was a selling point. It's not an attractive bow compared with my timber bows but that is, ironically, the beauty of it. I use it more than I did the others when I shot right hand, because I don't worry about it. Scratch it a bit, no big deal, bugger a limb no big deal. Every part is replaceable off the shelf from a dozen different shops or second hand.
This is just my experience with ILF. Like I said I don't like looking at it but I do like shooting it.
Motty

[Mick Smith]

Thanks for the response motty. We appear to have reached similar conclusions when it comes to ILF bows. You mentioned that you didn't like the short limbs you had. Out of curiosity, why was that? I'm guessing it was something like finger pinch. This is why I will go for a longer riser. I don't really know, but to me it makes sense that a bow with a long riser, combined with short limbs would be more efficient.

I used to think that most ILF bows looked too mass produced and that they didn't have any personality, but these days I don't really care that much about looks. I'm far more interested in practicalities than looks. The fact that I will be able to buy any brand of ILF limb to fit to my riser, both new and second hand, means that a whole plethora of opportunities could open up, which would probably go a long way to maximise my enjoyment.

Some people might say, ''you might as well go and buy yourself a compound.'', but I have little interest in doing that. I love shooting non-compound bows too much for that to happen. Besides, I find the sharp onset of the draw weight at the beginning of a compound's draw cycle really wrecks my shoulder, compared to the smooth and gradual increase of draw weight you get with trad bows.

[motty]

I found the shorter limbs, making a 58" bow, a little hard to tune for me to get good arrow flight. A lot of kicking to the left (left hand). Nothing wrong with the limbs but maybe my release? The medium limbs making a 60" feel smoother and, for me at least, give better flight. A longer riser and shorter limbs is probably the way to go. You can adjust the poundage/stacking of the limbs to suit draw length not so much for draw weight as with a compound. I don't know that much about ILF options as others, just about the Trad Tech Titan (older version) coupled with Black Max limbs and that's enough for me at the moment. There is no end to the variables of ILF that I can see depending on the depth of you pockets of course.
After you play around with your new bow you may want to keep an eye out for a cheap left hand riser. I'm left eye dominant and have chronic TP. Suffered for 7 years on the right side. It disappears on the left side. Also helps in evening up the muscles when you swap back and forth. A bit like learning/enjoying archery all over again.
Good luck with the new purchase Mick.
Motty

[dartonian]

Hi Mick,
I tend to mainly lurk here but saw your post and thought I'd chime in with a few comments...

I was in the market for a new longbow and after being stuffed around on a purchase decided to go the almost polar opposite and bought an ILF recurve. I was checking out some European websites and they had an end of season sale, which is what first got my attention. I bought an SF Forged Plus 23" riser and SF Elite Plus limbs (shorts) making a 64" bow at a cracking price!

The limbs are a carbon foam composite and super smooth to draw. I got 40lb ones which become 42lb on the 23 inch riser. At first, I found the adjustability of the riser to be a bit confusing... My current other bows are a Stickbow Traditions Longbow (Chally) and a Steve Farrell DR Longbow (semi recurve... whatever..lol) so the whole adjustment factor was a bit new to me.

I also had a few bare bow weights made up at a local metal workshop (I didnt want to spend the $ being asked from specialist archery suppliers for a lump of steel rod with a 5/16th thread!!!) and I wanted it to comply with barebow categories across all associations. The weights have really made it for me and I'm much happier with the balance and feel of it now.

A couple of things though, i just couldn't get used to the med/high grip and have completely removed it and simply wrapped the riser in handlebar tape to make a low grip, much more like a longbow. The other issue for me is the fact that I wanted to give string-walking a go... I've tried and tried to achieve a classic upright stance with a vertical bow and after filleting my face and nose numerous times and developing a horrendous flinch, I now anchor at the side of my mouth, cant the bow and shoot it like my longbows. I know I'll get laughed at by some for shooting it like that, but hey, I'll be having fun and the sheep stations being played for aren't really that big...lol

While beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I love the almost industrial practicality of it. It's a matt grey riser with grey/black carbon weave visible in the limbs and to my eye, looks cool, different to the sheer beauty of a wooden longbow but still very cool in it's own right.

Cheers and good luck on the quest, I doubt you'll regret it!

[Mick Smith]

After you play around with your new bow you may want to keep an eye out for a cheap left hand riser. I'm left eye dominant and have chronic TP. Suffered for 7 years on the right side. It disappears on the left side. Also helps in evening up the muscles when you swap back and forth. A bit like learning/enjoying archery all over again.
Good luck with the new purchase Mick.
Motty

That almost sounds like me to a tee. I've thought about trying to go left handed, but I've shot right handed for so long. I'm also left eye dominant, but I don't really think that this is a major problem, as I can shoot well enough, sometimes. I can control my target panic fairly well most of the time.

If I do decide to change hands and shoot left handed, using a cheap L/H ILF riser would be a good way to go.

Thanks Motty.

[Mick Smith]

Hi dartonian.

I suppose what got me interested in ILF bows wasn't even an ILF bow. One of the guys at my club bought himself a Border Covert Hunter with the Hex 6.5H limbs on it. I loved the limbs and I loved the way they performed, but I didn't particularly like the riser. I knew that Border made these exact limbs in ILF, so I thought I could combine these great limbs with the ILF riser of my choice.

So, I started looking at ILF risers. Being fairly conservative, I looked at the timber risers first. There's not a lot of timber ILF risers out there, but at least I was getting a choice. Some looked nicer, to me, than the Border risers. Then I started thinking about what would be the ultimate set up. Putting looks to the side, I thought a carbon riser would be great with these radical carbon limbs. I was surprised to find that I actually liked the look of many of the carbon risers. I particularly liked the look of the Win&Win risers. Initially I was going to buy the 17 inch one, but in the end I decided to go for the 25 inch. I may buy a 17 inch one later, specifically for hunting.

The Win&Win carbon riser together with the Border carbon Hex limbs should look like a piece of modern art, or perhaps alien technology and I think that's cool. I know for a fact, it will shoot far better than what I can, nearly every bow ever made can do that. My only concern is shooting from an elevated rest. I've never done that before. I've never used a stabiliser before either. I'll try shooting it without a stabiliser and see how it goes.

So, as you can see, I had pretty much made up my mind before I even started this thread. I find it interesting to talk over this subject with others who have 'been there and done that'. I'm very much a novice when it comes to ILF bows and there's heaps that I don't know.

Imagine the bow in the photo below without the sights and without all of those stabilisers.

[dartonian]

Mick,

It's funny what can attract you to a particular bow. What prompted me to look at ILF was the fact that I'm keen to try IFAA and as I shoot 3 under I'd be shooting my longbow in recurve division ( longbows can only be shot with a split release). So I started thinking I may as well be shooting the same gear. For me it was the combination of potential performance vs price. I had the opportunity to purchase the limbs at what I thought was a pretty silly price (under $AU300 - the whole bow was about $AU550 delivered) and I haven't been let down. I have come to appreciate the bow the more I've shot it. I have a sneaking suspicion that the bow will always be a step above my ability!

Interestingly, a mate shot my SF the other night and he was blown away at how smooth it was to draw, and his curve is a custom Huntsman. I don't think he's keen to swap but nice to know the owner of such a bow was impressed with mine!

Looking at the pic you posted of the Win & Win Riser, it looks like someone else doesn't like the med/high wrist grips...
and I agree, it does look like a piece of modern art...

As for not using a stabiliser, I'm not sure about the Win &Win, but I can say that pretty much all ILF risers I've held have been top heavy without a stab (top limb tends to lean back towards your head). I just use weights which makes for a heavier bow. If you are thinking of shooting barebow, have you considered one of the specific barebow risers like Best or Bernadini?

Cheers,

Paul

[Mick Smith]

I didn't even know there was such a thing as specific barebow risers Paul. That's how little I know about ILF gear. I feel like a beginner all over again and it's fun.

[dartonian]

Mick,

Barebow recurve is pretty big in the european countries... the barebow risers are specifically made to be shot without stabilisers and are not only more bottom heavy, but have in built areas for additional weights to be added to the riser. I recall reading somewhere that the ratio of recurve : compound shooters in europe is the same as here and in the US only reversed!

[Mick Smith]

Hi Paul.

I did a bit of reading up about barebow shooting. I now understand why there's a need to add weight to the lower part of the riser. It's to make the bow tip forwards at the top when it is released. This reaction to the shot ensures the arrow rest will be dropping away from the arrow and as such, it will have no effect on the arrows flight.

I still don't know if barebow shooting of recurves in Europe is more closely aligned with target archery or general field archery. I'm thinking it's target archery, minus the sights, but that doesn't really matter as the principals are the same.

I think our general population of trad archers can learn and thing or two from our target shooting cousins. We have a couple of dedicated target archers in our ABA club and they can really shoot.

[toby]

Hey Mick, just a word of advice if you can find an Ilf riser that has the perfect grip for you than you are 90% sorted.
No matter what limbs the bow will always feel good in the hand. You can play with as many different limbs as you like but the bow will always feel right. Unless you have a long draw a 19" riser is probably the most versatile, a 60" bow with short limbs up to a 66" with extra long limbs.
I shoot a 17" Morrison full phenolic riser with Border Hex 6 limbs both are all black.

[Mick Smith]

Thanks for the tips Lyonel. As I only have a relatively short draw at 28 inches I thought I would be better off with short limbs and to get the overall length bow that I want for stability I thought a 25 inch riser might be best. This would give me an overall length of around 66 inches, I think, which is about the same as my longbows which I'm used to shooting.

My logic at this point is that I could possibly own 2 risers, a 25 inch one more for target work and the other one around 17 inches which would be more for hunting. If I bought myself a pair of Border Hex limbs that were about 40# on the longer riser, they would be closer to 50# on a shorter 17 inch one.

I'm still open to suggestions, as I admit that I know very little about the ILF bow scene.

[dartonian]

Mick,

I recalled reading an old thread on the archery interchange forum about fitting Border limbs to short risers... thought you may be interested so found the link here

http://www.archeryinterchange.com/f127/ ... mbs-79837/

Also, here is a link to recommendations by Border in regard to riser length vs limb length vs draw length for their limbs.

http://www.borderbows.com/uploads/Bowle ... s.pdf.html

Seems you may be pushing a bit with the short limbs for a short (15-17") riser with your 28" draw. Maybe have to move up to med limbs for a 68" bow on a 25" riser that will then give you a bit more room to move on the shorter hunting riser...

Luckily for me, I only draw 27"
Cheers,

[Mick Smith]

Thanks Paul. I read those with interest. I think I can just get away with it.

[wishsong]

Mick, PM'd you

[Chase N. Nocks]

Hi Mick.

Agree with almost everything said here. I am very fortunate that I have an eye for most bows and very little offends me (so yes I love compounds and metal risered recurves)

The rig you have chosen looks spectacular and even better it will shoot spectacularly.

I think you will find the long riser/short limb combo pretty well spot on for your draw length while maintaining stability and a forgiving release (as far as such a thing exists)

The leap in poundage when you go to 17inch riser or smaller will be quite large but the 19 and 21 inch options are plentiful. And Bernadini make some lovely ones.

Can't wait to see photos of the bow.

Cheers
Troy

[Mick Smith]

Hi Troy.

My new ILF bow won't look like anything that I've liked in the past. When I first saw the photo of the W&W carbon riser, together with the Border Hex 7 limbs on TradTalk, it was love at first sight. It certainly isn't 'traditional', but it somehow looks 'right' and even sexy, in a way.

I know I will never be able to shoot well enough to justify owning such a bow, but I suppose you don't have to be a formula one racing car driver to own a Porsche either.