REALLY BIG Warbow!!

[hunterguy1991]

Well, my 115lber is pretty much dead... the belly is riddled with bad crysals and its time for a new bow as I out grew the draw weight on it anyway.

Timber choice for the replacement was Hickory as a backing and American Ash as the belly (im a sucker for white wood ELB's)

Having done some research I found some talk of it not being possible to go more than 120lbs with American ash, however these were at 78" ntn... so I figured I'd try to better that and go for 140lbs for a bit of a challenge.

Bow dimensions are 85 inches total for 84 inches nock to nock, 40mm wide at the handle and 32/33mm thick at the handle to give an 80% stack. Tips are 17/18mm square after roughing out.

It is a very substantial piece of wood at the moment but after the crown and belly round are done it might want to bend a little for me. (hopefully!!)

Progress shots tomorrow when I continue work on it.

Colin

[bigbob]

UGGGG. I think I'm getting a hernia just thinking of trying to draw that sucker back.Look forward to progress reports.

[hunterguy1991]

As long as all goes well and it doesn't break on me I will give drawing it a damn good crack!

Will keep the photos coming as I go with making it.

[mikaluger]

Good Luck big fella!!!

[hunterguy1991]

Thanks Mick!! might need it

[Dennis La Varenne]

Awaiting with bated breath.

Any pics of the chrysals on the belly of the bow and have they developed into frets (pinches) already? Just curious.

[hunterguy1991]

Dennis,

Yes its well and truly fretted, but it had a good run... problems with using grey ironbark not red...

Hopefully the ash holds up with no issues.

[Dennis La Varenne]

Yes, that will certainly be interesting. How much wider are you making this Ash bow compared to its Grey Ironbark predecessor and how will you orient the grain - vertically or horizontally? I think mikaluger has done a few of these.

[hunterguy1991]

Dennis, the Ash bow is 40mm wide where as the Ironbark was 35mm (from memory) but they are close to the same thickness.

The grain is oriented as close to what you would do with a self bow as I could get it with the board I had. The grain lines run at about 10 degrees off completely flat if you look at the ends of the stave with the belly up so its pretty close.

We'll see what happens. Tillering it will most likely take all day after its shaped.

Colin

[hunterguy1991]

Bit of work so far.

Shaped the crown and belly this morning ready to tiller. Had to make a new string for this one as its longer than the others I have and near impossible to get a string on anyway...

Cut some string grooves (Victorian style so I wouldn't risk a longitudinal crack like the 110lb red ash one I made) and got a long string (chord actually haha) made up as well ready to start.

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Sitting on the tiller, its a very hefty piece of wood and I think may even exceed what I'm expecting. I have looked at this picture and thought it was lop-sided so went and measured that it was in the exact middle, which it is... but its still looks off!! weird.

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Starting to see some bend in it... tips are down about 6 inches in the photo and its up to 90lbs... I think I will have to sink this one a LOT!!

At present my efforts are just to get the limbs evened out so I can eventually get a short string on it and a shot brace height.

More to come!

Colin

[Outbackdad]

Be great to see.

[hunterguy1991]

If all goes well I will get some shooting photos up when its done.

On a more random note, I don't fancy the smell of American Ash... looks beautiful, smells strange!!

[greybeard]

..... I have looked at this picture and thought it was lop-sided so went and measured that it was in the exact middle, which it is... but its still looks off!! weird.....

I think you will find it is an optical illusion caused by the patchy plaster job on the wall and that the limb protrudes past the wall on to a dark background.

Daryl.

[Dennis La Varenne]

I think you will find it is an optical illusion caused by the patchy plaster job on the wall and that the limb protrudes past the wall on to a dark background.

I was thinking the same thing Daryl.

Colin,
Keep an eye on the mid-limb of that right hand limb. It looks to be coming there more than its mate. Can you see it?

[hunterguy1991]

We have a shooter!!!

I have completed the tillering and it has loosed its first projectiles!

It came in a touch under weight at around 123-125lbs at 30 inches true but it is still quite long so some piking could be in order yet. Will test it for distance as is and see where it can get to before I push it further.

I took some video of a few shots and lifted a picture from one of them at full draw on a 30 inch (nock to socket) sheaf arrow.

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The bow has taken a lovely circular curve at full draw and the only thing I can spot is a slightly stiff top tip for about the last 4-6 inches. It does look more stiff than it is because of the shadow on the back of the limb but I think its just a touch stiff at the moment.

Dennis I will be interested to hear your thoughts on that.

I'm in love with the Ash belly!! The grain is stunning and I just like white wood ELB's so its a win for me.

One very happy little bowyer here this arvo!! Looking forward to some field testing in the next few days. I will try to work out a way to post some video of it in action as its seems very fast even with a 80gram arrow.

Colin

[Dennis La Varenne]

Crumbs Colin . . . that was quick!!!! I would have still been labouring on the thing for the next week.

I see what you mean by the slight amount of stiffness in the upper limb. If you have something with a straight edge which is about 6" - 8" long, with the bow on the tiller at say, half draw, lay it against the belly with one end at the nock groove and have a look at the gap between the belly and the straight edge. Then do it again at the other end and compare the two. If the lower is bending nicely, then you only need to match the upper to it. It won't take much though.

As is, the bends are as close to symmetrical as any reasonable bowyer can get and I would be surprised if it gave problems. If you post a pic on your tiller, I can do my chord thing for you.

By the way, did you back that stave with Hickory or is it a selfbow?

By the way, are you talking about 'shorting' the bow or 'piking' it. I once believed that piking was shortening a bow, but not so. It actually means to bring the ends of the bow to a point (hence pike). Ascham uses the two terms separately. 'Shorting' is to reduce length. I made the correction in the updated glossary some time ago.

[hunterguy1991]

I worked pretty slowly on that one actually Dennis... Lots of exercising after scrapes and filing to work in the adjustments. Boy was that a workout!!! haha

The Shinto saw rasp Mick put me onto is a god-send!! makes tillering very easy work. Few pencil marks, rasp them off with the fine side and some scrapes to get rid of the file marks.

I may just give it a light scrape right at the tip to even them out but as is it is no problem to performance.

I would post a photo in the tiller but its rather difficult to hold back with one hand and hold a camera steady with the other

Visually I'm stoked with the arc that it has taken and I think its better to look at them in the hand than on a tiller anyway.

The blokes in the UK use "piking" as "shortening" but I can see the difference. Bad habit I've picked up on I guess. There is potential for shortening it an inch either end to up the weight a bit to get what I wanted but I want to field test it before I do that. Shortening it may also risk the belly failing as well so it will be pro's vs con's on that one.

I guess I will be piking it also at some stage to put the horns on

Colin

[mikaluger]

nice one Col!!!!
that is a beast.......

[Dennis La Varenne]

Colin,

She's a beauty alright!!! I tried my chords trick on your pic above, but because the bow is on a slight cant, it doesn't work that well. Have you got a tripod for your camera or are you using your phone? I have a little tripod for my digi camera which I bought purely for pics to go on the web. I am no photographer in the true sense.

Here is what I did with chords on your pic anyway. It still shows a damn fine tillering job though.

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Mik,
What does one of those one of those Shinto saw rasps look like? I have never heard of them. I wish I could buy a float though. I can't fine one here.

[hunterguy1991]

Cheers Dennis!! Always appreciate your chord trick to check my work

I think it came out pretty much spot on looking at that tho! Just a tad stiff in the handle and nice even bend in the limbs, top slightly softer than bottom.

I will let you know what it shoots like for distance later on today.

To find the Rasp just look up "Shinto saw rasp" on google... they're a pretty odd looking thing, but basically they are a series of double sided hacksaw blades (one coarse and one fine side) that are "weaved" together with rivets to create about a 1 and a half inch wide rasp.

I picked mine up from carba-tec for about 35 bucks I think.

Colin

[hunterguy1991]

Well I took it out for a shoot this morning... think my scales were lying to me yesterday because it wasn't putting them out there like I expected.

I got a few decent ones out over 200 but only just, it should be into the 230's at 125lbs...

Put it back on the scales when I got home and sure enough 110-112lbs. Now granted it would have lost a little bit shooting it in but not 15lbs, so it will be getting shortened this arvo.

A headwind and not the best shots may have also robbed a bit of distance as well, but it think it will be even better shortened up a bit. New nocks and a re tiller and we should be good.

[mikaluger]

Here is a link Dennis, great tool this....
http://www.japanesetools.com.au/product ... o-saw-rasp

[Dennis La Varenne]

Colin,

That IS a lot to lose. I hope it doesn't forbode the bow's future. How much do you think you will shorten it? Also, if you put a heat gun on the horns, it may loosen the epoxy enough to lift them off and you can just clean them up inside with your horn drill bit.

Will you try the very heavy arrow from it before you shorten it? I would be interested how much difference there is, ie the relative efficiency of the bow with lighter and heavier arrows. Perhaps because of the high limb mass of a bow of this size, they are better suited to much heavier arrows. That would be my guess.

Mik,

Those files are a very interesting bit of kit indeed. I will have to invest in one as soon as they are back in stock. I am also taken with those very fine saws - the Kakuri fine cut saws. The first time I ever saw one was in one of the old Traditional Archer magazines of Harvey Overshiner when a bloke did a tutorial on building a Yew ELB from spliced billets. He cut the W-splice using one of these and it did just as well as a bandsaw. The cut is very very fine indeed because because of the lack of set on the blade's teeth and the thinness of the blade.

[hunterguy1991]

Dennis,

Id say my scales were just playing up when I weighed it after I finished tillering... being pretty cheap and nasty scales they tend to stick or jump around a bit sometimes.

I have checked it a few more times and it looks like its consistently at 115lbs @ 30 inches, which is ok, not as heavy as I wanted but ok.

It has not got horns on it yet, ive just been shooting it with the tillering nocks... they are only very shallow across the back in the hickory so theres little risk of splitting it.

If I do shorten it, it will only be an inch off either end to make a true 120+

I took it out again to test this morning and shot much better than yesterday so for now I'm pretty happy with it as is. Most of getting max distance out of a bow is down to the archer not some much the bow. I can easily pull this thing to full draw every shot, its just getting the sweet spot in the elevation that gets you most distance.

More testing over the weekend then I will decide if I'm going to cut the tips shorter or not. My bench mark is 220 yards with a standard arrow, If I can consistently hit that mark it will stay as is.

Those Shinto rasps are amazing, you will not go back to a normal rasp or file after you use it for bulk removal or tillering.

[Dennis La Varenne]

Colin,

I will have to get one of them then. You wouldn't have the problem of the teeth getting blocked up either.

Ballistically, there is an optimum elevation for maximum distance and it is not 45 degrees. I think it is closer to 40 degrees I think.

I used to do some flight testing by standing at a particular spot under a tree and putting my arrow tip in a particular branch which I had ascertained to have an angle from my anchor position to the branch tip of close to 40 degrees. I did it using a largish protractor with a plumbob hanging from it. I though afterwards that all I had to do was stand behind a long garden stake of the right height and distance from my position and place my point to 'tip' the top of it.

After a while, I had trained myself, through muscle memory I suppose, to assume the correct angle for maximum distance without the props. It seemed to work OK.

[hunterguy1991]

Finally got around to getting a photo of the finished bow in action...

I really enjoy shooting this bow at 120lbs its not too heavy and draws smooth as butter for a big bow and I love the colour and grain in it.

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My everyday warbow until the Yew bow is acquired I think.

Colin

[bigbob]

Great result Colin! Glad its you though lugging that back! Maybe in my youth but these days 70lb is more than enough!

[mikaluger]

I am jealous......beautiful bow Col.

[Dennis La Varenne]

Colin,

Has she taken much set after the long draw??? What sort of cast is in her?

[hunterguy1991]

Dennis,

It takes about 2 and a half inches of set after being shot and then stood for a while... which I think is not bad for a flat glued stave. As for the cast, its somewhat disappointing. Barely makes the 200 yard mark with a 54gram arrow.

I am going to play around with the arrows Im shooting a little. Wanting to try a 1/2 inch barrelled to 3/8 shaft as it will have better stiffness for this big bow but should be around the same mass, maybe a little more.

Had my first arrow explosion yesterday while shooting, no damage to the bow and very little to myself ( scratch on the thumb and a whack on the arm) so all is well.

I still have some of this ash left and may make another with a bamboo backing and a decent amount of reflex on glue up to try and get a better shooter, but for now I like this bow.

Colin