Traditional Arrow

Where to source materials etc. Also the place to show off your new bow or quiver etc.... Making things belongs in Traditional Crafts.

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Trad Bound
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Traditional Arrow

#1 Post by Trad Bound » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:15 pm

I was chatting to an unnamed Pink coloured Scientist the other day and we were wondering what defines a traditional arrow and why it is so.
Your thoughts?
Hangon before you start I will grab a large coffee, some chilli jam sauce and bread as this could take awhile. :roll:
Quick Sue get Steves meds this will get him going. :wink:
Yes I know Nic Lintern has been writing on this and a good artlcle or two but what are your thoughts :surprised:

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#2 Post by jcm » Thu Jul 17, 2014 9:42 pm

More information Tony-What material- Wood. bamboo. reed.
steel, aluminium, aluminium/carbon, carbon. fibreglass ?
What flights- leather, feather or plastic? Nocks? Points?
John

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#3 Post by Trad Bound » Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:33 pm

Hi John
That is my question what is a traditional arrow. Some Trad shoots say wooden shaft 12" feathers is that what defines traditional? Why 12 " of feather, why not other types. The Pink Professor was heading towards if it grows out of the ground ie Reed, Grass, Tree then thats suitable. We've debate bows but what is a traditional arrow. John all that you list is worthy of consideration.

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#4 Post by jcm » Fri Jul 18, 2014 12:02 am

Tony,
Coming out of a glue session so here goes with some ramblings -
A Traditional arrow- what material that is available to the arrow maker to make the arrow .
A fairly straight shaft. Material that is flexible, strong enough to take a few impacts.
A necessity for his or her bow.
So does the bow the arrow is shot from define the arrow as Traditional?
or can a label make an arrow Traditional.
John

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#5 Post by GrahameA » Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:24 am

Morning.

Mumble, mumble .......
Trad Bound wrote:... what is a traditional arrow. Some Trad shoots say wooden shaft 12" feathers is that what defines traditional? Why 12 " of feather, why not other types. The Pink Professor was heading towards if it grows out of the ground ie Reed, Grass, Tree then thats suitable. We've debate bows but what is a traditional arrow. John all that you list is worthy of consideration.
My view.

Wood, Bamboo or similar. Not Aluminium or Plastic Composites or similar. Not because I have anything against those materials rather because the accepted material has been "Wood" for some time. And you can make them yourself relatively easily ........ try making some Carbon Fibre shafts at home or getting a load of Aluminium ore dumped in your front yard. It is similar reasoning to why players use Wood Bats in the MLB.

As for the fletching requirement I believe it is comes from an ABA or similar requirement. 12 sounds like a good number, 12 inches to the foot, 12 pence to the shilling. Notice no one specifies how tall the fletch has to be. :D

As for fletching material at the moment it is feathers for the same reasoning.

And just because Archery Australia allows the use of Aluminium Arrows does not mean it is/was a smart or well considered decision.
Grahame.
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#6 Post by Roadie » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:16 am

Morning All,
Bolts from a Crossbow (Medieval, as used at Pointiers, Crecy, Etc), some were steel Shafts with Leather Flights. Would these be considered as Traditional Arrows. And If some one turned up at a Trad shoot, minus his Crossbow but with arrows (wood) with Leather Flights instead of Feather, to use in their Long Bow, Recurve, Horse bow, do you say no they can't compete.
Time for another Coffee I think. Cheers Roadie.

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#7 Post by longbowinfected » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:35 pm

crossbow projectiles are called bolts
those who shoot crossbows are arbalists
you would need a special bolt category........you have to be that pedantic if you insist upon 12 inches of feathers.........the biggest joke of all time.......natural materials for the shaft and the fletching including wool, cotton balls, leaves or leather as long as it clears the bow and works safely

we do not make our own glues or strings [for most of us] nor points/piles so making your own stuff does not sit perfectly as a criterion.

do think trad should be wood arrows including boo, self nocks, natural material fletches of any length/configuration have not many options for target and field competition points

should also be a primitive division of arrow......oh crap, this sounds familiar :lol: :lol: :lol:

Will Join Roadie for a quiet Single Malt........what the world's best is made where???????? Tasmania :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#8 Post by DavidM » Fri Jul 18, 2014 4:57 pm

Some othe questions Trad bound and I pondered on our weekly wonder around the lilydale course.

Are modern plastic nocks really kosher?

Do laminated wooden shafts held together with modern glues fall within the definition? One could possibly argue that they would handle adverse weather conditions better then a pure wooden shaft.

What about feathers attached with fletching tape, modern glues verses feathers tied on with hemp or sinew?

Do 1950’s Fred Bear type fibreglass shafts fall under the definition?

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#9 Post by GrahameA » Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:26 pm

Evening All.
longbowinfected wrote:... we do not make our own glues or strings [for most of us] nor points/piles so making your own stuff does not sit perfectly as a criterion. ...
Purely for the pleasure of ...

Self Made Shaft. Self Made Points. Self made Fletches .... and they will meet the 12" Rule no worries. Self Made Horn Nocks. And I spent few hours this morning making strings. Now as you were saying ........ :mrgreen:
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#10 Post by longbowinfected » Fri Jul 18, 2014 6:39 pm

I have some old horse hoof meltdown boat glue in beads in a couple of glass Bushells bottles. They were my Dads. We built two boats together when I was a kid. I made a boat with my son with most of the rest. I had just a little bit left. Made up some boo arrows using sinew, napped obsidian [bought ]points with Goose feathers from our Muscovies with tied and pinned self nocks a few years ago and they were great. Made three of them got one bunny after about twenty shots in a pretty rocky area. They flew well but when the points hit rock they shattered as well as splitting the shaft. Only got broken remains. Got lucky as I nailed the rabbit just before the arrow went through and sailed straight into rock.

Slow cooked bunny stew with a bit of chicken never tasted so good.

My batting average has not improved much with bunnies.

Kevin
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#11 Post by DavidM » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:17 pm

Hi Kevin

Now they sound like trad arrows. Have you every thought about giving point napping a go? This youtube clip is pretty cool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfuVclkmDPc

PS Are napped points FITA field legal these days :biggrin:

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#12 Post by GrahameA » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:35 pm

Evening Kevin.
longbowinfected wrote:I have some old horse hoof meltdown boat glue in beads ....
It is not hard to make animal Glue .... it may be time consuming, however it is not hard. You learn such things when you learn to make Gesso from scratch.
Grahame.
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#13 Post by longbowinfected » Fri Jul 18, 2014 8:45 pm

I will ignore the fine print as I need new glasses
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#14 Post by Stickbow Hunter » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:11 pm

Going by the replies so far people seem to be honing in on the rules pertaining to arrows at Trad Shoots rather than answering the original question. Because of this I will make the following comments.

I was on the organizing committee for the Australian Longbow Muster which was one of, if not the first, of the big Trad Shoots in this country. The first Muster was in 1988.

Bear in mind ALSO that the Muster had its roots firmly grounded in Bowhunting, not Target Archery. So, I was very much instrumental in drafting the rules for the Muster which included the types of arrows that could be used. There were two main reasons for these rules.

The first of these was as follows. At ABA shoots the win at any cost mentality prevailed. People were going outside the spirit of the longbow division, as it was back then, but clearly not outside the rules. They were shooting what we termed knitting needles - small alloy arrows with small fletching out of light draw weight bows. They did this purely to gain better performance out of their non-hunting equipment. Mostly the longbow shooters of that time, in keeping with their hunting roots, were shooting their hunting equipment - usually 50# plus bows and wood arrows.

The Muster committee wanted to negate this practice of abusing the spirit of the rules, so it was put in place that only wood arrows were to be used. Added to this, a minimum length was placed on the fletches that could be used which was to negate the use of tiny target style fletching.

The committee felt this put all the shooters on the same level playing field.

The second reason for the use of wood arrows only was the most important one. One of the main aims of the Musters was to pass on our Traditional Bowhunting heritage. This very much included the skills of making one's own equipment. Those skills were being lost by the archers of that time and I think that is still the case today - perhaps even more so.

To this end, bow making, arrow making and string making was demonstrated and taught at the Musters. The ‘Master Fletcher Award’ was first introduced at the Musters in order to encourage archers to make their own arrows and learn the craft from existing skilled Fletchers. Steve Wallace, whom many of you know already, was one of our first Master Fletchers. I believe the award is still going today.

By making it a requirement that all archers were to use wood arrows, the Muster committee felt it was a way of keeping our ancient arrow making skills alive. Rather than just purchasing perfectly matched arrows from some archery supplier supermarket style, it was hoped that the participating archers would learn to make up their own arrows. Furthermore, it was hoped that they learned not only what constituted a good arrow, but also acquire the skills to make them themselves.

So, as you can see from the foregoing, the reasons for only allowing wood arrows had nothing to do with merely defining what was a traditional arrow but for the much more important reasons given above.

I believe these same reasons are the basis for continuing the 'wood arrows only' rule at traditional shoots today.

Jeff

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#15 Post by GrahameA » Sat Jul 19, 2014 7:10 am

Morning.
DavidM wrote:... Do 1950’s Fred Bear type fibreglass shafts fall under the definition?
My $0:02 worth.

You are asking the wrong question. Rather than asking if a specific arrow "falls under the definition", that question will only clarify the situation for one arrow.

A better question to ask is, "What defines a Traditional Arrow"? Then you can compare all arrows against the definition to ascertain if they pass or fail the criteria.
DavidM wrote:... Do laminated wooden shafts held together with modern glues fall within the definition? One could possibly argue that they would handle adverse weather conditions better then a pure wooden shaft. ....
I would argue that laminated wood shafts, e,g, Hex Shafts, comply. If you allow footed arrows you have already allowed composite arrows, if you allow horn nocks or reinforced self nocks similarly you have allowed composite arrows.

Perhaps you need to go back to your definition of a "Traditional Arrow" and reconsider it and its implications/consequences. It is good to have a "Statement of Intent at the beginning of Rules so people know what they are intended to do and it is also good to have rulings/precedence so people can see why people have allowed/disallowed things in the past.

But why would you use them? They take substantially more effort to make, and thus cost, and what proof do you have that they are more "accurate" or more weather "resistant".
Grahame.
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#16 Post by clinton miller » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:14 am

hmmm.......i think i'll go hunting.
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#17 Post by littlejohn59 » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:30 am

The technical intricacies of archery the two of you discuss are deep and profound tradbound and professor

To me as its traditional archery, the arrow is wood with no plastic nock. However as we are in the modern era 2014, for ease of use and practicality we allow modern glues and plastic nocks.

Any type of feather should be permitted but not plastic nocks.

Does Size count? :shock: ......nah...... 2inches or 7 inches still does the job.

my thoughts.

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#18 Post by GrahameA » Sat Jul 19, 2014 2:15 pm

Afternoon.

An Addenda.

Just as an example of good , as in well written, Rules. It is immaterial what the game is rather it is an example of how well written can be done.

http://www.isfsoftball.org/english/rule ... lebook.pdf

* They start with Definitions : so everybody is talking about the same thing. That seems to be a radical idea to some.
* Then it talks about the Playing Field - so everyone knows exactly where things are. Same as hat constitutes the Archery Field in competition and where you can and cannot stand , etc.
* Then it talks about the Equipment - which seems to be the concern of most people and what they can/cannot use.
* Then you get the players, etc.

And so it goes on. What is interesting is if you look at the Rules you start to see things like "exceptions" and "effect". Which makes control of the event much easier.

As an example of Effect if a player decides t break the applicable rule then what happens next has already been decided.

e.g. Effect

Sec. 10 The first offense is a team warning. Any repeat offense shall result in the ejection of that team member.

As an example of Exception. In case is clarifies specific variations to normal play.

a. One run shall be scored each time a runner legally touches first, second, third bases and home plate before the
third out of the inning.
EXCEPTION: When the tie breaker is used, the runner starting at second base does not have to touch first base
in order for a legal run to be scored.
Grahame.
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#19 Post by longbowinfected » Sat Jul 19, 2014 8:24 pm

Considering most cannot agree what is traditional archery I fail to see anything other than unnecessary friction being created.
Think I will rack up some zzzzzzzzs, wake up early and shoot some arrows.

Kevin
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#20 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sat Jul 19, 2014 9:04 pm

At the very base of this discussion, all arrows are traditional in that the design has not changed since archery began - a shaft with a pointed head and guided by feathers or other material to stabilise flight. Some arrows were flightless if they were long enough to provide flight stability.

What the issue at the heart of this discussion should perhaps be is what materials should be included in any definition.

As Jeff pointed out above are the reasons why the Longbow Musters as well as ABA decided, was to promote and preserve the older traditional arrow-making skills handed down to us by our forebears. Those were being rapidly lost, even in my early days of archery back in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

That is why ABA and other organizations decided to restrict their definitions of a traditional arrow to one made using the traditional wood arrow shaft with feather flights.

There is NO absolute definition of a traditional arrow as such - only an arrow made using traditional materials and methods. Most people use the arrow materials of their age and have always done. People commonly use carbon shafted arrows with plastic vanes these days for obvious benefits. However, if we are going to play a game which are going to call 'traditional archery', then that very idea begs the question of 'traditional to what form of archery?'

In Western society, that question answers to the further question of when there occurred a dividing line between what we then regard as the traditional era of archery and a newer form of archery when the equipment and materials used was dramatically different to that from the preceding period.

That divide in modern archery began with the invention of the compound bow in 1967, when, not only the bows used, but also the arrows and their materials began to dramatically change in response to the far higher thrust of the compound bow.

Unfortunately, the old wood arrow was very often not up to the task because much of the previous knowledge of arrow grading had been lost to the common archer who used wood shafts often to their sorrow and that of bystanders. So, aluminium arrows came into the fore and developments in that sphere was very rapid indeed, because even the old aluminiums which were used as far back as the 1920s when Easton began manufacturing them, were also not up to the thrust generated by the compound bow.

And later came the now ubiquitous carbon shafted arrow.

Of sorrow to those of us who value the older skills, was the commercialization of the sport where self-service supermarket buying came into itself. People no longer needed to have any building skills at all. You just bought it at the shop like a bottle of milk without any real understanding of what went into its building as once we did as archers. Like buying a bottle of milk now, we all know that milk comes from the supermarket. Only us oldies know that it really comes from cows. And so with archery. There is no longer any real requirement to know anything of its history or building knowledge.

And so, we are left with having to 'define' things, to separate this from that, in order to try to get newby archery to begin to aske question of 'why'.

It is only when they begin to ask why that we are able to pass on that knowledge which our forebears handed down to us and to show our ancient connection to those people and the heritage they left us.

Meanwhile, those who have little interest or care about that heritage just walk away. Thus, I can understand the sorrow that our Aboriginal elders have when their young folk have no interest in preserving their heritage. It is exactly the same for traditional archery.
Dennis La Varénne

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#21 Post by GrahameA » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:21 am

Hi Kevin.
longbowinfected wrote:Considering most cannot agree what is traditional archery ...
And there is an inherent problem when you try to codify it. The best you can hope for is a group of people agree on a similar definition and then rules, etc.
longbowinfected wrote:.. I fail to see anything other than unnecessary friction being created ...
There is only friction if people want to have it. Some people can have a conservation without emotions getting in the way and some people cannot.
longbowinfected wrote:... Think I will rack up some zzzzzzzzs, wake up early and shoot some arrows.
I would suggest that approach may lead to people waking up tomorrow and wondering what happened. To paraphase ... price of whatever is eternal vigilance.
Grahame.
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#22 Post by longbowinfected » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:47 am

Everyone draws lines in the sand.
trouble is time moves on.
It is a bit like a certain group in AA trying to turn back the clock in AA and insist on flat laid glassed longbows with no reflex only catering for only a very small group only and throwing out all the others who have played by the rules whilst ignoring the fact they shoot with alloy arrows.
These folk feel they own the rules because they helped draft them thirty years ago yet they rarely turn up to tournaments.
Flat laid longbows are not really something the average longbower can buy off the shelf. Not a lot of archery manufacturers make such a bow. Forget about saying that is our point as longbows and arrows have been in the majority been mass produced in factories for centuries earlier on. In particular not being able to obtain cheap lower poundage entry level bows disadvantages beginner longbowers who start with a small budget at least some of the time. Yes I encourage folk to buy handcrafted traditional bows especially if made in Oz but for many they cannot afford it early on, are not aware of the extra value in locally hand built and perhaps are only prepared to dabble in the style until they realise how great it is..
Those wishing to only have flat laid longbows in AA ignore the fact that glassed bows of any type are pretty modern. AA lets folk using longbows use alloy arrows, ABA lets some folk using longbows use carbon arrows. Most archers use mass machine produced points, nocks, string materials, glues, etc. At the end of the day none of the American Flat bows are actually longbows......this is a mish mash of a few making decisions with naming rights. Having said that it is a great and exciting part of archery that families can do and afford, has a family fun and camping together in the outdoors together........this is not going to die and it will evolve simply because even bare bow trad archers want to go better and harder even if it is merely for bragging rights on the one day for one better shot than your best mate.

Kevin

Remember most archers do not make their own bows which has probably been a constant for centuries.
Not many people centuries ago made their own arrows either. If archery relied upon everyone having to make all their own gear it would not have fared well. Archery as against using crossbows and guns in the European context [component I have looked at but not as strongly as others] really flourished even for considerable period of hundred years or more because bows and arrows could be cheaply mass produced and dispensed/distributed more easily and cheaply than the other two technologies. The main drawback against those two newer technologies was cost. Where the new technologies took off was because it became much easier to train armies to use them.

Perhaps tradional arrows are those used to shoot in the traditional way or way of our forefathers using equipment like they used without the use of purpose designed sights. Perhaps we should just call ourselves bare bowers and forget about the distinctions between any of the bow types with one exception........ one type being off the hand without glass, carbon or more than three laminations including backing the other being glassed, carbon but must have wood or boo and can have a shelf. While we are at it why have male and female divisions?
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#23 Post by kerrille » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:09 am

i made this a while ago with the idea of making 1/2 a doz to go hunting with,the other 5 are still waiting to be made :oop

https://www.facebook.com/costicaldad/me ... 769&type=3

...nev...
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#24 Post by morganp » Sun Jul 20, 2014 12:33 pm

plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

I recently found this thread in some old digital archives dug from the ruins of Planet Earth. Looking back from the perspective of year 2514 the archaic self-interest of particular groups and persons is of course merely quaint to our perceptions! Such ego-centric self-aggrandisement fortunately died with most of the population in the Catastrophe of 2115 and now we are enlightened and relaxed about our sport. Free-fall and artificially varied gravities add to our pleasure and the awe at the flight of a loosed arrow is still extant and supreme. I still remember the first arrow of mine to achieve a full orbit unassisted!

Those using self-guided laser arrows with single-molecule, nano-fused, mind-melded tips and variable profile, intelligent fletching stand happily alongside their brothers with machine-replicated traditional bows and missiles in the true sense of comradeship and with the shared pleasure of achievement. We welcome too those hardy, driven souls that perform long personal journeys of misery, frustration and perhaps individual final satisfaction in the mastering of primitive skills to manufacture their own bows and arrows from raw-sourced and hand-shaped materials. Such principle, devotion and ability (if perverse and anti-social) is still worthy of recognition and the pursuant mandatory therapy is of course socially valuable.

We recognise the futility of personal egotism, no winners or first place needed here! Instead the meaning and reward is found in the happy praise and pleasurable recognition of the ability of our peers. All are different, all are one!

'Tradition', a term that is meaningless in so many contexts, indeed in most contexts, a term abused by so many looking to hold or shape positions of power. So futile, so limited as we now know. Let us praise ourselves not as 'traditionalists' but as 'participants' in archery, a marvelous and satisfying sport inclusive and warmly welcoming of all. Primitive or modern, we are all different, we are all one! Except of course the practitioners of mind-warped, time/space variable co-ordinate missile trajectorialism. That is going too far, the term 'cheating' comes to mind.

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#25 Post by longbowinfected » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:16 pm

totally agree.
Group A
We here seem to be all shooting arrows out bows and arrows with some portions with wood or boo.
We here seem to be all shooting without purpose named and designed sights
We stand on the same earth or ground where

Group B fellow archers shoot arrows using other bows without wood or boo and they use sights, good on them.

How old do the original compounds used by the Group B compounders and/or their gear have to be before they are traditional to their method?

Someone else's tradition in a hundred years started today.

Other than the multi changing ever being The Doctor none of us is a Time Lord.

We should just call ourselves something every other archer can understand........Bare bowers.

Kevin
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#26 Post by jcm » Sun Jul 20, 2014 3:45 pm

Kevin,
There are too many Labels. Them and us. Archers one and all for the enjoyment of the company and the sport.
There has been some valuable comment on the Traditional Arrow.
Now to return to my glue fix.
John

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#27 Post by Trad Bound » Sun Jul 20, 2014 6:08 pm

As to the question of 12" of feathers I'm wondering if feathers of the past were longer and therefore you might have got 3 x 4" out of a feather. I'm newish to the game but over the past 10 years I would say feathers are certainly getting shorter. Am I right in suggesting that jcm or others. Although Graham A has a very scientific explanation why it is 12 is it simpler than that? :surprised:

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#28 Post by Dennis La Varenne » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:49 pm

Longbowinfected, JCM, morganp and Trad bound,

Both Jeff and I have made it perfectly clear what the purpose of Ozbow is - the preservation of all forms of archery and bowhunting practised before the advent of the compound bow.

We make no apologies for this nor will we compromise that purpose. We intend to do whatever we can to preserve those forms of archery because we believe that in so doing, we preserve our ancient and valuable heritage which informs us of who we are as archers and bowhunters and where we came from.

We are not interested in throwing that out in favour of latterday reinterpretations of the term 'traditional'.

If any of you find no value in helping preserve those traditions, then why visit this forum. If the modern forms of supermarket archery which have no interest in preserving our archery and bowhunting heritage or even understand what it is all about are all you are interested in, there are plenty of other forums where you can wallow.

Ozbow has NEVER pretended to be a forum where all forms of archery are welcome. It is, and has always been, dedicated to preserving only the pre-compound archery and bowhunting forms and its vocabulary.

All of this nonsense about definitions arose only because of 'rules of shoot'. What is a traditional arrow? That is an absurdly easy question to answer from the Ozbow perspective.

It is any arrow of a kind in use before the advent of the compound bow. Is that so very difficult to understand?

That definition is a very inclusive one and, I suspect, encompasses just about all the arrows you blokes use presently other than carbon shafted arrows. So, what is your problem?

Ozbow has absolutely no interest in how the various archery shooting organizations define their trad archery, so we do not understand why you are arguing that point on this forum.

They have nothing to do with Ozbow and nor has Ozbow had any input into these definitions. It seems to us that you are attributing those rules to Ozbow. Why??

Do please re-read what Jeff and I have posted above. None of you seems to have read those posts and/or understood what we have said. You seem to be arguing at a tangent to the original question posed.

If anybody asks on Ozbow what the definition of traditional archery or equipment is, it is ALWAYS and ONLY what we have defined in the second paragraph above. The oft-repeated re-questioning of what is ‘traditional’ on this forum is both redundant and irrelevant. You have your answer already.

If you join Ozbow, by default, you already have the meaning of the words - TRADITIONAL ARCHERY.
Dennis La Varénne

Have the courage to argue your beliefs with conviction, but the humility to accept that you may be wrong.

QVIS CVSTODIET IPSOS CVSTODES (Who polices the police?) - DECIMVS IVNIVS IVVENALIS (Juvenal) - Satire VI, lines 347–8

What is the difference between free enterprise capitalism and organised crime?

HOMO LVPVS HOMINIS - Man is his own predator.

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greybeard
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Re: Traditional Arrow

#29 Post by greybeard » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:52 pm

Arrows Detail.jpg
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"And you must not stick for a groat or twelvepence more than another man would give, if it be a good bow.
For a good bow twice paid for, is better than an ill bow once broken.
[Ascham]

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Re: Traditional Arrow

#30 Post by Roadie » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:01 pm

Thanks GreyBeard. Cheers Roadie.

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