Red Oak Pyramid Bow #58@30"

[Tom Alker]

Hi All,

I just finished working on another red oak board bow, This one is number three and turned out better than expected. I had no need to back this bow as i was blessed with the straightest grain i could ever hope to see in a board. I'm talking one grain running from dead center of the top limb to dead center on bottom limb.

I sanded this bow starting with 180 grit and ended on 1200. The final finish was awesome - i really liked it.

I like the look of red oak unstained so i just put a gloss clear coat on it to give it a bit of shine.

Lastly, I preemptively doweled the handle to prevent it popping off, i know it looks ugly as sin but i dont mind as the dowels will be wrapped in leather.

Hope y'all like it and as always, let me know what ya think.

I will link a video when its done uploading, Cheers!

Tom.

Edit: Added Dimensions
Edit: Added Video Links in a reply

72"
#58@30"
Red Oak

[Stickbow Hunter]

The Red Oak does look good Tom. To my eye from mid limb outwards of both limbs look to be doing a lot of the bending. I think the inner limbs need to be bending more.

Jeff

[Crazybrave]

She looks like an absolute beauty! Well done!

I love the look of pyramid bows!

Very very nice! Thanks for sharing!

[cmoore]

Love the look of it Tom, I agree with you that red oak looks best unstained. How long were you in masters for to find a perfect board like that? ....Is that just a 3/4" board with a width taper & no thickness taper if it is what are the dimensions?....I agree with Jeff that she's a bit whip tillered (outer limbs doing most of the work) I've got a red oak board bow tillered like that n she still shoots fine, all in all it looks like a really good lookin bow, definitely keen on seeing a video of her shooting

Cameron

[perry]

Really enjoying watching your tinkering - top effort Mate

Capital C for Constructive Critiques and Rigid Riser Selfbows Tom, get those inners working a little more so it resembles a Capital C more closely. The Fadeouts look a little short also and not quite blending in with the narrow section of the Riser. Next time around with a Rigid Riser Selfbow try making your Fadeouts much longer, 4" would not be too long

A tip with Selfbows with deeper Risers, choose thicker timber, or lower weights so the Handle bends as little as possible if your using a skinny Board. It is possible to make 60# Bows from a 19mm Board with that Bow design though with the right piece of Timber but it will have a working Handle. A layer or 2 of Cork on the Back and Belly of the Riser with a Grip Stitched over will thicken the Grip up instead of Gluing a Riser Block on. When you glue on a riser Block, glue 4 or 5 thin layers together instead of a solid piece of Timber, the Laminations are less prone to Pop as the Glue Lines have that bit of Give in them. There is still a lot of stress at the point where the Fades meet the Limb, I wonder if this was in the back of your mind as you Whip Tillered this Bow. I don't think the Dowell's will stop the Glue joint failing at the Tip of the Fades in the long term. Riser Designs like this are better suited to Laminated Bows in my view. You even run into issues with Laminated Bows and a stress point being created at the end of a short Fadeout

Keep it up Tom, your going good

regards Jacko

[morganp]

Thanks Jacko, your simple explanations teach me more than pages from others.
That is a great bow Tom and worthy of praise as it is.
I hope you find another decent board to try Perry's suggestions and see what eventuates. A great bow may become a classic.

[bigbob]

you've done very well young Tom! It's a very nice looking bow, but with the qualification of the previous ozbowers . It is working more on the last third of each limb, and as Perry says fades do look a little abrupt. Still a very nice effort.

[Tom Alker]

Thanks for the kind words so far guys, I know the limbs are working a lot around the tips. Its just to take more pressure off the handle. This bows handle was glued on months ago and I didn't end up using the timber for a while. I only left the handle the way it was because the riser Block was already glued in place, the next one will have laminations to build up the riser. I will get some more pics and dimensions when I get off work. I had this bow prepared before I even managed to finish the self bow. I would have done it differently If I had known about the problems that come with glue on block handles. Thanks guys and sorry bout the crappy reply, on me phone at work. Updates to come. tom.

[Dennis La Varenne]

Tom,

I can't find fault with whip ended bows necessarily. I do love big rounded bends, but that does not mean greater efficiency in a bow necessarily.

Whip-ended bows have a place for shooting arrows of moderate mass without generating as much handshock deriving from high mass limbs bending over their entire length.

The bending part of your limbs is mostly in the outer half, and so long as this is not inducing unreasonable set in the limbs, say, greater than 1.5 inches when rested, I would not be too concerned.

Bows which bend well down to the riser/handle area have a greater limb mass under movement which should be close to the mass of the arrow to help cancel out handshock, if that makes sense.

My observations are tending me to consider that lengthy bows which bend closer to the handle area are good for heavy arrows at long draws. Shorter bows which bend closer to the handle area are better for somewhat shorter draws where the arrow mass is proportional to the draw weight, ie., 10grains/lb draw-weight, a sort of trad archery standard.

But like your bow, if you prefer a lengthy bow with its shallower string angle, even with your long draw, and would like to shoot arrows of somewhat lower proportional mass, then whip ending a bow suits.

If you want to propel arrows of greater than 10grains/lb draw-weight, then bring the bend closer toward the riser to match the mass of the moveable part of the bowlimb closer to that of the arrow. Othewise, your bow should shoot quite well, especially if you want to get a bit more speed and flatter trajectory for target shooting using lighter arrows.

The braced shape of your bow looks pretty good to me. Jacko's point about the steepness of your dips becomes relevant if you change your tiller to make the bow bend close to the riser. Otherwise, if you keep it whip-ended as it now is, it shouldn't be a problem.

Good job. Shoot it a lot before making any changes. Remember, if you remove wood on the belly to change the tiller, you will lose draw weight and end up having to shorten it moderately to compensate.

[rodlonq]

Hello Tim,

The red oak certainly finishes off very nice, and what a beaut board you had to start with.

Is Red Oak an imported timber? I can't find it in Bootle's book or indeed any of the timber suppliers in Townsville.

Could someone please tell me the botanical name? Thanks.

Cheers... Rod

[Tom Alker]

Hello Tim,

Is Red Oak an imported timber? I can't find it in Bootle's book or indeed any of the timber suppliers in Townsville.

Cheers... Rod

G'day Rod,

That's correct,

It is imported as far as i know. Masters has been the best supply for me when it comes to straight grained and immaculate condition boards (This means a lot coming from a guy who works at bunnings xD) I often have to filter through all of their boards and i normally do it during the night when its quiet, at first i got strange looks but now they know what im up to and dont seem to mind as long as i stack them back up neatly, sometimes they help if they're bored.

I think Quercus Rubra is the botanical name for the wood, although that may be a generalized name for many different sub species of red oak.

Cheers,

Tom.

[Tom Alker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xPYN1H ... e=youtu.be

theres one vid, more to come

[Tom Alker]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ladh2Gg ... e=youtu.be
Tiller

[Tom Alker]

Tom,

I can't find fault with whip ended bows necessarily. I do love big rounded bends, but that does not mean greater efficiency in a bow necessarily.

Whip-ended bows have a place for shooting arrows of moderate mass without generating as much handshock deriving from high mass limbs bending over their entire length.

The bending part of your limbs is mostly in the outer half, and so long as this is not inducing unreasonable set in the limbs, say, greater than 1.5 inches when rested, I would not be too concerned.

Bows which bend well down to the riser/handle area have a greater limb mass under movement which should be close to the mass of the arrow to help cancel out handshock, if that makes sense.

My observations are tending me to consider that lengthy bows which bend closer to the handle area are good for heavy arrows at long draws. Shorter bows which bend closer to the handle area are better for somewhat shorter draws where the arrow mass is proportional to the draw weight, ie., 10grains/lb draw-weight, a sort of trad archery standard.

But like your bow, if you prefer a lengthy bow with its shallower string angle, even with your long draw, and would like to shoot arrows of somewhat lower proportional mass, then whip ending a bow suits.

If you want to propel arrows of greater than 10grains/lb draw-weight, then bring the bend closer toward the riser to match the mass of the moveable part of the bowlimb closer to that of the arrow. Othewise, your bow should shoot quite well, especially if you want to get a bit more speed and flatter trajectory for target shooting using lighter arrows.

The braced shape of your bow looks pretty good to me. Jacko's point about the steepness of your dips becomes relevant if you change your tiller to make the bow bend close to the riser. Otherwise, if you keep it whip-ended as it now is, it shouldn't be a problem.

Good job. Shoot it a lot before making any changes. Remember, if you remove wood on the belly to change the tiller, you will lose draw weight and end up having to shorten it moderately to compensate.

G'day dennis,

Thanks for the detailed reply mate, It makes a lot of sense and i think you're right on the mark with what you're saying. At brace the bow seems evenly bent and indeed there is a lot of work being done towards the tips. The bow id built along with a mate now creaks in the handle when you draw it so its a matter of time before the handle pops off. To avoid a handle pop i tried to keep the original thickness of the board in the middle of the handle to have the least amount of bend possible directly in the middle. It's difficult to see but there is actually a thickness taper going into the handle. It would only be a millimeter or so though.

Heres a picture of the Set.



Heres my arrows



As far as the shooting goes i dont feel any hand shock, it seems to ping an arrow quite well, cast isnt great but trajectory seems to be very flat (That's what i think im seeing anyway??)

Cheers,

Tom.

[Tom Alker]

Really enjoying watching your tinkering - top effort Mate

Capital C for Constructive Critiques and Rigid Riser Selfbows Tom, get those inners working a little more so it resembles a Capital C more closely. The Fadeouts look a little short also and not quite blending in with the narrow section of the Riser. Next time around with a Rigid Riser Selfbow try making your Fadeouts much longer, 4" would not be too long

There is still a lot of stress at the point where the Fades meet the Limb, I wonder if this was in the back of your mind as you Whip Tillered this Bow.

regards Jacko

Thanks perry,

I did purposely whip end this bow in an attempt to avoid handle stress. This bow has to be my favorite of the 3 red oak bows easily and it shoots really well man, i like it. I hope to use lamination's to build up a riser on the next one and i may try a mollegabet bow as ive always wanted one of em. The next project after that should be a penobscot bow.

Another bows already in the works and should be up shortly.

Lastly, do you still have that bandsaw for sale? if so pm me.

Cheers,

Tom.

[Dennis La Varenne]

Tom,

30mm is not much set and not worth thinking about. To have a whip-ended bow with only that much set is pretty good. Your arrows are a poofteenth under the trad standard, so I am not surprised they shoot well.

Apart from using a chronograph (which I do have) I prefer to test my bows and others' by testing for the bow's point on maximum distance. I have little 35lb bows which even at my 26" draw and perhaps drawing only 32lbs, I can hold the tip to 6 o'clock of the mark in my yard out at 35m and give it a good scare. If the arrows strikes high and you have enough room somewhere, you can keep backing off until the arrow hits the mark with the 6 o'clock hold. The further out you can do this, the quicker your bow is of course.

It is very satisfying to know how far out your bow is capable of shooting, even though it is not practical for anything other than target shooting. It is a constant surprise and pleasure to me now that I find it almost impossible to draw greater than 45lbs at how well the light bows can shoot.