dreambow

[greybeard]

I have only owned one commercially made longbow and that was a Martin ML 10 70#. The most memorable event I can remember about this bow was the day I got rid of it.

My second longbow was a custom made Vince Hamilton 60# which I thought was a nice bow to shoot.

Two pet hates I have with bows are over built handles/risers and little or no early string tension.

From my perspective, for sheer shooting enjoyment nothing else compares to a well made selfbow.

Daryl.

[Roadie]

I Totally Agree with Greybeard, Cheers Roadie.

[Nephew]

Everything I've killed, bar the first, has been with a Gringa. They'll do me, mate, although I'd love a Jeffy if I could just get him into his workshop!

[mikaluger]

Guess I'l have to be biased too[ ] and say one of my deflex/reflex longbows ] in some great aussie timbers like select black wattle, Ringed gidgee and maybe purple gidgee. Have seen some great Trilams made by a guy in US who doesn't sell them but maybe I can convince him to do a swap. Some of his Osage/ hickory with flipped tips are VERY nice.

Send me a link Bob, I would like to see these osage/hickory tri lams with flipped tips!!!!!!!

[daniel boon]

Mainly RC's here, but a few months ago I got a 1pc Schafer S-Tip long bow, and really liked it. Well a little while ago a Jack B. Harrison Siberian Wolf came up, so I thought why not? And I'm impressed. It's a bit heavier than I normally shoot, but does not feel it at all. Straight of the bat I was putting the arrows on target, Quiet, smooth, etc. As far as LB's, it's the one.
Did I say I'm impressed?
Cheers Dan

[Chase N. Nocks]

Morning.

graham that blackbrook zeta really looks like something special. thanks for posting that i love threads like this

IMHO
The "Zeta" is a bow that a) meets my personal design philosophies, b) has demonstrated that it is a stable shooting platform, c) has more than enough options if I wanted to maximise the performance.

(I do not like bows that are preloaded by reflexing the limbs so a bow like the Slynx would not be for me.)

The hardest part is coming up with the criteria upon which to base the decision.

There are other bows that interest me, e.g. ACS and Falco, however in the realm of "longbows" the Zeta is currently at the top of my choice.

A Zeta in action.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCBM9kMzLT4

+1

The Zeta just ticks all the boxes for me. Wish there was more footage of these bows in action considering that it has such a strong fan base.

(I was about to order one about 18mths??? ago when the $AUS was doing very nicely against the £ but then it turned and added about $AUS 200 to the price tag.... purchase on hold)

The Fox Triple Crown is also another.

The Falco bows also seem very nice. There is quite a bit of footage found for them.

As a traditional style longbow I am thinking Nick Linten or Howard Hill probably in String Follow

Cheers
Troy

I would have to say also that the

[AndyF]

Hello All,

Might as well chuck my opinion in with all the rest.

Well, as I'm a dastardly Pom, I don't feel obliged to say anything Aussie made. That said Nick Lintern's stuff is pretty good - and he's a mate, and he's making me a warbow, plus a Barbarian for a friend of mine in SA, and possibly a 30lb flatbow for my girlfriend. Two mates I shoot with often both own variants on his Priestess and love them. And one of these days I'll get a 'proper' flatbow from him, if only to shut him up on the subject.

I'm a bit of a 'who care's about cost and postage' kind of chap, so I've just bought what I wanted so far (not that I have lots of bows, yet).

My first 'dream bow' was a Tomahawk Diamond SS about four years ago. Whilst it's not a custom made bow it's pretty bloody good, very nicely finished and put together, and it shoots very well. I've certainly won a few comps and beaten fancier bows with it.

On the custom front, I have two Fox Triple Crowns by Ron King from Oregon. One is a 48lb with a Cocobolo riser and bamboo, carbon backed limbs. The other is 55lb with the same woods and a hefty section of micarta through the riser which gives it extra weight/stability. Quite frankly, they're superb. Fabulous, intelligent design. Zero hand shock and fast. Simply beautiful to shoot. And, IMHO, nicer than anything else I've picked up and shot - including Black Widows.

Next 'cost/postage no barrier' bow will be a 'curve though. A Blacktail Snakebit, which I've just ordered. No good reason for it other than 'Just because...'

I wouldn't be surprised if I also find a Zeta and a Border Harrier Royale hanging on my wall at some point too.

Right, back to work.

A

[Roadie]

I picked up my new Dream Bow last weekend at Wisemans. One Nick made for me, Hickory Laminated, Full ELB with Horn, 52lbs, 28' draw, and Stained Black. Yep she is One Sweat Mother. Cheers Roadie...

[Chase N. Nocks]

Hello All,

Might as well chuck my opinion in with all the rest.

Well, as I'm a dastardly Pom, I don't feel obliged to say anything Aussie made. That said Nick Lintern's stuff is pretty good - and he's a mate, and he's making me a warbow, plus a Barbarian for a friend of mine in SA, and possibly a 30lb flatbow for my girlfriend. Two mates I shoot with often both own variants on his Priestess and love them. And one of these days I'll get a 'proper' flatbow from him, if only to shut him up on the subject.

I'm a bit of a 'who care's about cost and postage' kind of chap, so I've just bought what I wanted so far (not that I have lots of bows, yet).

My first 'dream bow' was a Tomahawk Diamond SS about four years ago. Whilst it's not a custom made bow it's pretty bloody good, very nicely finished and put together, and it shoots very well. I've certainly won a few comps and beaten fancier bows with it.

On the custom front, I have two Fox Triple Crowns by Ron King from Oregon. One is a 48lb with a Cocobolo riser and bamboo, carbon backed limbs. The other is 55lb with the same woods and a hefty section of micarta through the riser which gives it extra weight/stability. Quite frankly, they're superb. Fabulous, intelligent design. Zero hand shock and fast. Simply beautiful to shoot. And, IMHO, nicer than anything else I've picked up and shot - including Black Widows.

Next 'cost/postage no barrier' bow will be a 'curve though. A Blacktail Snakebit, which I've just ordered. No good reason for it other than 'Just because...'

I wouldn't be surprised if I also find a Zeta and a Border Harrier Royale hanging on my wall at some point too.

Right, back to work.

A

That would be a very nice stable indeed. Very Very NICE!!

if expense was not an option I would add a Centaur Longbow and a Rose Oak Recurve to that mix. Personally I don't think the Centaur is a better shooter than the Toelke Whip (similar design philosophies) but does handle heavier shafts a little better and the matt finish is pretty tough.

good to know your opinion of the Triples as well.

Keep collecting mate.

Cheers
Troy

[Chase N. Nocks]

I picked up my new Dream Bow last weekend at Wisemans. One Nick made for me, Hickory Laminated, Full ELB with Horn, 52lbs, 28' draw, and Stained Black. Yep she is One Sweat Mother. Cheers Roadie...

Hey Grant,

I can only go of the pictures of the self bow that Nick made for Guy and that was pure simple beautiful. And I mean simple in the most refined way.

Hope you are well.

Cheers
Troy

[bigbob]

Guess I'l have to be biased too[ ] and say one of my deflex/reflex longbows ] in some great aussie timbers like select black wattle, Ringed gidgee and maybe purple gidgee. Have seen some great Trilams made by a guy in US who doesn't sell them but maybe I can convince him to do a swap. Some of his Osage/ hickory with flipped tips are VERY nice.

Send me a link Bob, I would like to see these osage/hickory tri lams with flipped tips!!!!!!!

sorry our internet has been down for 3 days.will send you a Pm.

[hazard]

The experts can spend an eternity screaming at each other and never come to an end

That said your dream bow will never be any one else's dream bow. The strength and wealth and knowledge of 'Australian Made" bows still quite boldly stands its ground.

I have had the pleasure of shooting and owning many different brands over the years, both imports and local. The argument can and will never end, that's just the way of things.

I own local and imported bows and am very impressed with qualities of both by no mistake..........but if $200 stops you from buying something local I would be more inclined to ask you, what is is the real reason you feel compelled to import?


[*]something you were sold on in a brochure / ad in a magazine?
[*]Looks
[*]A mate that out shot you at the latest comp
[*]impulse?

I mean Truthfully! First ask yourself if its in a book how can it be better than something you have actually used, I don't believe many people have the strength of character to be honest with this question.

I have heard some weak answers but in truth, even many 'Aussy" bows are peoples dream bows, yet we truthfully bow to our perceived credibility of an 'ADD" not the fact that locally made bows are some amazing products.

I am not a wealthy man by any means, but $200-$300 for something I will use every weekend or more and enjoy will not weaken my resolve to what’s printed on paper.

My challenge to you is be sincerely honest with yourself and try local and imported and don't be weakened by a piece of paper! That or get yourself a dirty great pillar and start screaming like the rest of the add reading pillocks

Borrow a bow from some one first, smell taste and feel its character before you relent to an advertisement.

Your dead a long time!!!don’t get to the pearly gates only to be told by St Peter you dream bow was made 3 streets from your house.....and only for an extra $200 ???

Hazard

[Chase N. Nocks]

Hey Hazard,

Not quite sure what you are driving at mate. I hope your not saying a different opinion or preference implies dishonesty.

Ad or brochure buy? Certainly I look at ads and brochures, that is just one avenue of getting information. I seek information from a lot of sources.

Looks? Most definitely! I don't know a lot of archers that deliberately purchase ugly bows. There will of course be different opinions on what constitutes beauty. Looks ALONE? No.

Mate out shot me? Hell there have been days when everyone at a trad event has outshot me. So NO to that one, and even if I was stupid enough to think that way, I simply am not that cashed up.

Impulse? Guilty as charged. Not sure what the disadvantage is there though. Some of my best equipment purchases have been impulsive. They had to be. Time to dawdle just wasn't available and sometimes I have to make a choice with limited information.

Here are a couple of other MAIN reasons I have made the choices I have made. And why I don't even really entertain the whole local vs import argument.

Design - show me someone in Oz making an equivalent to the Zeta, BLack Widow PSR takedown, Centaur or Toelke Whip or metal handled Black Swan.

Materials - in my custom bows I actually like a lot of the imported timbers. Black ebony, Osage, Purple Heart. Light timbers and red timbers don't really do it for me. Oh I had/have bows in those finishes that I love but if I am going to get a custom bow then I will try for what I like most. I am also a fan of heavy micanta in wood bow risers. Not something offered a lot here.

Versatility - ILF. Big fan I am afraid and also of the Hoyt Paralever system. No one makes the risers locally and I imagine the choices for local custom made limbs are pretty slim on the ground.

Lastly, there just not the opportunity to see many Australian bows but I doubt not the quality of them. Many that I have encountered have been beautifully made and I hope to add to my bow wall one day. But I have limited funds and have to make my choices like the next fella. And I have queue of a wish list and things get swapped around quite regularly but there are some bows I have wanted for twenty years and they continue to whisper in my ear.

In my dream list are a Ginga R/D longbow or recurve, a Flatliner Raptor and a Nick Linten laminated bow AND self bow. Greybeard is a wonderful bowmaker and I would love to come up with a bow the he would love to make and I love to own and shoot. I have owned many Oz bows over the years but I do not buy bows on where they are made but mainly for the reasons above.

That is an honest answer.

Cheers
Troy

[Fanto]

I dont think its much use comparing bowyers from one country to another as a whole, of course we will always compare an individual bowyer's work with another bowyer. thats how humans are.

ive shot some truly appalling american made bows, there are some with a lot of hype, some with a big price, and some that are sublime.

its all a matter of perspective to me. a year ago i shot a particular deflex reflex longbow from a very well known bow company (sort of a bowyer gone a bit mass produced) and thought it was the ducks guts. i shot the same bow on thursday and I thought it was of basic mass produced factory looking construction, too wide and flimsy in the limbs,overbuilt in the riser, lacking early draw weight, not that fast and with too much handshock. this is due to the Caribow which is, in my humble reckoning, quite superior in every aspect.

i wont mention the name as i wouldnt want to offend any owners. Its a good bow, but bows are like a lot of things in life, once youve had a sip of the good stuff its hard to go back down a couple of notches..

[hazard]

I just reckon too many people are too quick to look overseas and underestimate the potential of locally made bows.

people will jump to buy something advertised in an add and say but it was $200 cheaper.

I work in sales to engineering and people struggle to accept something if it isn't printed on paper and buy more from impulse rather than face to face value.

If you believe i reckon a different opinion or preference implies dishonesty or I said not to buy from O/S I suggest you turn your wagon around because you couldn't be further off track

I have said before I am not a wealthy guy, and for a 'Dream Bow" i reckon it would be silly to pass it up because its $200 dearer or locally made.

Borrowing other peoples bows for a day or so for a test drive gives you a better appraisal finding out the bow from the mag wasn't your dream bow.

[GrahameA]

Hi Graydon.

.... I work in sales to engineering and people struggle to accept something if it isn't printed on paper and buy more from impulse rather than face to face value.

In my opinion it is not that simple. The question that was asked was:

I am sorry if this question has been posed to many times but in your dream world where money is unlimited and postage is free what longbow would you choose ?and why . any takers out there ?

So that was how I framed the answer. I did not consider bows other than "longbows" - even if given the option I may have elected to choose one of them.

I ran the possible contenders against my criteria and chose the one at the top.

The thing about decision making is that it helps to have a method other than "liking" something.

In the bigger scheme of things I may actually already have my bow of choice - I at least have the bow(s) I am extremely happy to shoot with and I do not want to replace them with anything else.

[Roadie]

Here Here, I agree with Grahame. Well said. Cheers Roadie.

[hazard]

Graham
I agree it isn't that simple, the question posed is very diverse if you look at the facet that tickles each and every individuals fancy

One thing I have learned is that it is rarely the text book perfect bow that performs or wins. Rather the one that an individual finds to be the most accurate and pleasant to shoot. And for all accounts and purposes that would be the bow I want.

My argument is that a vast majority fall in love with a romantic ideal mostly based on a marketing strategy not the hard core grass roots feel taste and smell to find the real "dream Bow". Their confidence is compromised negating it was the 6th or 7th bow they borrowed off a mate that was the real one.

I can fall in love with the looks feel and everything and not hit the broad side of a barn.

It appears the point I was making was lost in the tangent Troy seemed to interpret.

Its is a complicated question and it needs a complicated answer, opinion is what its all about and this is my opinion never the less

[Chase N. Nocks]

I just reckon too many people are too quick to look overseas and underestimate the potential of locally made bows.

people will jump to buy something advertised in an add and say but it was $200 cheaper.

I work in sales to engineering and people struggle to accept something if it isn't printed on paper and buy more from impulse rather than face to face value.

If you believe i reckon a different opinion or preference implies dishonesty or I said not to buy from O/S I suggest you turn your wagon around because you couldn't be further off track

I have said before I am not a wealthy guy, and for a 'Dream Bow" i reckon it would be silly to pass it up because its $200 dearer or locally made.

Borrowing other peoples bows for a day or so for a test drive gives you a better appraisal finding out the bow from the mag wasn't your dream bow.

Fair enough. It seems that I misinterpreted your post. But you did ask people to be "truthful" and not succumb to ads and listed a small criteria of reasons that might largely only apply to a newbie.

I listed a few genuinely pertinent reasons for how I go about choosing a new bow. I have found that the scarcity of trying out a custom high quality bow whether local or imported is about the same. In fact my experience is that I am more likely to encounter the imported.

The other thing I do is go on the trad sites and find as much anecdotal evidence and reviews as I can find. I visit sites like Pete Ward's site. Being an experience archer you also get a feel for other commentators and the quality of what they are saying. There is usually an abundance of this information.

There are just a whole range of reasons I choose the bows I do. And frankly I have made very good choices. The perfect bow for me may be a local bow and then again maybe it is not.

I suspect not AT THIS POINT IN TIME simply because none of the bows locally tick ALL of the design philosophies and performance criteria I am chasing. That is just my suspicion, an economically untestable theory unless I can try every bow or bow every bow that MIGHT meet the things I am looking for. So I have to make me choices.

Luckily the bows I have bought over the years were all mostly beautiful to me and very good performers. My Black Widow is really beautiful but not a very forgiving bow that said like a GP Bike it rewards consistency, skill, effort and practice. I still consider it a fantastic bow.

If you know Oz Bowyers that are making the type (Design) of bows I mentioned with a great reputation for quality then please let me know.I promise to give them serious consideration.

Cheers
Troy

[Stickbow Hunter]

Versatility - ILF. Big fan I am afraid and also of the Hoyt Paralever system. No one makes the risers locally and I imagine the choices for local custom made limbs are pretty slim on the ground.

If you know Oz Bowyers that are making the type (Design) of bows I mentioned with a great reputation for quality then please let me know.I promise to give them serious consideration.

Troy, this thread was supposed to be about longbows.

Jeff

[Fanto]

hazard

I don't really see any "hard sell" advertising or marketing for trad bows, not many bowyers really talk up their bows on their own sites .
perhaps it's just the ones I look at that are like this. heck even the"big boys" like black widow mostly let their customers and reviewers do the talking.

sure bear and martin take out adverts but those are mostly just evocative pictures

come to think of it threads like this are where most of us learn about the existence of bowyers!

[GrahameA]

Hi Graydon.

... Its is a complicated question and it needs a complicated answer, opinion is what its all about and this is my opinion never the less

I have probably said this before on this forum and if haven't I have been extremely remiss. Simplistic answers do not solve complex problems. I know exactly where you are coming from.

[hazard]

Respectfuly

Ron Leclairs long bows

Fred Eichler

DAS Takedown Bow

Martin

Tred Barta

Bear

Pearson

You dont have to look far, its all there

Google is an archers friend

[GrahameA]

Morning All

Graydon (aka Hazard) posted this comment:

... One thing I have learned is that it is rarely the text book perfect bow that performs or wins. Rather the one that an individual finds to be the most accurate and pleasant to shoot. And for all accounts and purposes that would be the bow I want.

My argument is that a vast majority fall in love with a romantic ideal mostly based on a marketing strategy .....

And in my opinion he is "spot on" Correct.

So one of the questions that people could ask about bows is what are the measurable/comparative factors/characteristics that influence their choice in bows. I am already on record as having a few personal dislike earlier in this topic as are a few other people. So what are the (measurable/comparable) characteristics that people seek in their bows?

[Chase N. Nocks]

Versatility - ILF. Big fan I am afraid and also of the Hoyt Paralever system. No one makes the risers locally and I imagine the choices for local custom made limbs are pretty slim on the ground.

If you know Oz Bowyers that are making the type (Design) of bows I mentioned with a great reputation for quality then please let me know.I promise to give them serious consideration.

Troy, this thread was supposed to be about longbows.

Jeff

Far enough Jeff Paralever is out (for the moment) but ILF still factors as it caters for Longbow limbs. I understand though that archers and archery bodies are split on whether that constitutes a longbow.

Hazard, yes those companies advertise I suppose. I must just glance over those mag pages. If I visit their sites for information I get what I expect, doesn't mean their sites are useless. I think the internet is the archer's friend for the most part. I find that the sensible can get great value out of the internet even if it does occasionally bite.

Again I think most of the ads you speak of are there for the new archer. For instance Bear were bows I admired and enjoyed their shooting characteristics and designs 3 decades or more ago. And as much as the new pictures of them appeal to my eye I have lost considerable confidence in their build quality. Like Marlin Firearms since being bought by Remington, I'd love one but until I see better and consistent reviews I won't be touching either. If I lived in the USA that might be a different story. But Oz is a long and costly way to send stuff back to a supplier or maker. So I tend to do my homework for the most part. So archery ads are not intrusive to me nor do they have a huge amount of sway - they usually just lead me down other avenues of investigation. I would say the same for most of the blokes here I reckon.

Also a lot of Oz Bowyers seem to have decided to us word of mouth rather than the internet for making their products known. That has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Cheers
Troy

[Stickbow Hunter]

Far enough Jeff Paralever is out (for the moment) but ILF still factors as it caters for Longbow limbs.

I strongly disagree with that one Troy.

I understand though that archers and archery bodies are split on whether that constitutes a longbow.

I will use our Traditional Bowhunting/Archery history for making such decisions rather than what any individual or archery body might decide.

Jeff